NEW YORK | Penn Station / MSG Renovation

[ChiND]

I was at MSG last night. It’s undeniably dated, crappy, and inefficient. It goes without saying that Penn is far worse. Comparing Penn, MSG, and that abysmal area is like comparing the Circles of Hell.

[ChiND]

I hope that our metropolis gets something extraordinary.

[Busy Bee]

1940


__

[UrbanImpact]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

1940

Roof signage!

[ChiND]

I am not political, but it will be a serious miscarriage of justice if pennies are pinched on this very important project after we’ve spent hundreds of billions of tax dollars on Israel’s war.

[Glow Fun City]

Originally Posted by ChiND

I am not political, but it will be a serious miscarriage of justice if pennies are pinched on this very important project after we’ve spent hundreds of billions of dollars on Israel’s war.

I support Israel and public transit… (can get to Jerusalem from TLV airport faster than Manhattan from any of New York's )


But in my city it's been thousands of Persians rallying in support of the war, with just a few Jews like me joining in

[ChiND]

I respect your opinion.

[Busy Bee]

Just a fyi, if anyone wants to save that image you better do it because it will drop off eBay's server in a few days.

[ChiND]

Who knows what will happen, but this sounds promising. Removing MSG would permit the removal of thousands of columns. Further, not only is the new park beautiful, but since it's raised well above the street, it enables the ceilings in the concourse below to be twenty feet tall. Lastly, MSG is a dump, and removing that cancer would enable Penn to be finally fixed.

Finally, I'm still amazed that anyone claims that Dolan holds the cards. The City can let the permit expire, and the government also could take it by eminent domain. The state also could end MSG's tax break.

https://pagesix.com/2026/04/16/society/p...ut-fraught-penn-station-make-over-plans/

President Donald Trump had a secret meeting with MSG owner James Dolan about fraught Penn Station make-over plans
By Mara Siegler
Published April 16, 2026

The new glass train hall would have ceilings taller than Grand Central, but even the new underground concourse would have twenty foot ceilings. This image shows light coming through the water feature (with a huge glass bottom) at the west end of the park by Eighth Avenue. Farley is visible through the glass.

Massive amounts of development in this area would ensue.


Grand Penn

[TonyNYC]

[QUOTE=ChiND;10585280]Who knows what will happen, but this sounds promising. Removing MSG would permit the removal of thousands of columns. Further, not only is the new park beautiful, but since it's raised well above the street, it enables the ceilings in the concourse below to be twenty feet tall. Lastly, MSG is a dump, and removing that cancer would enable Penn to be finally fixed.

Finally, I'm still amazed that anyone claims that Dolan holds the cards. The City can let the permit expire, and the government also could take it by eminent domain. The state also could end MSG's tax break.

https://pagesix.com/2026/04/16/society/p...ut-fraught-penn-station-make-over-plans/

President Donald Trump had a secret meeting with MSG owner James Dolan about fraught Penn Station make-over plans
By Mara Siegler
Published April 16, 2026

The new glass train hall would have ceilings taller than Grand Central, but even the new underground concourse would have twenty foot ceilings. This image shows light coming through the water feature (with a huge glass bottom) at the west end of the park by Eighth Avenue. Farley is visible through the glass.

Massive amounts of development in this area would ensue.



You've stated your complete distain for MSG.. I'm not anti-MSG having seen everything my whole life there.. from the Knicks 72-73 Championship at a very young age, to Knicks season tix later on, Ranger games, SJU games and dozens of concerts over the decades.. it has a warm spot in our hearts..

Saying that.. I have no problem seeing it come down for a REBUILT PENN STATION with a modern twist. I thought the plan about a decade back of MSG moving to the west side of the Farley building was a no-brainer!

We'll see what they come up with.. Hopefully it will be EPIC.. new Penn and new MSG close by!! For those who are deranged because Trump is involved.. get over it!

[ChiND]

I agree with you, Tony.

If the Grand Penn plan happens, I could see Vornado start work immediately on a spec office tower on the west side of 7th between 33rd and 34th. There will be a lot of air rights from MSG to transfer to new office sites.

[NYguy]

Not that it matters, but this was all beyond Trump’s, Dolan’s and Vornado’s authority anyway. Moving that arena was never going to happen, certainly not without city help.


https://nypost.com/2026/04/19/opinion/mi...new-penn-station-maybe-with-trumps-help/

But the president told me on the phone over the weekend that he doesn’t want to move Madison Square Garden, which he loves, because it has “the best sightlines, the best sound” of any arena in the country. He says he has looked at “hundreds of plans” for Penn Station and prefers a more modest proposal that keeps the Garden where it is, wrapped in a more attractive facade, and demolishes the attached Hulu Theater to build a beautiful new entrance hall on Eighth Avenue. “It just makes sense,” he said.

The irony is that, without Penn Station being there, the city never would have approved MSG being there.

[Crawford]

So it looks like the Halmar proposal will win. Not exactly shocking.

Re. the other two proposals, one is wildly stupid, and the other hasn't revealed much of anything.

That NYPost article is so insipid and full of wild lies. Describing Penn Station in 2026 as a "squalid underground rathole"? Uh-huh. The LIRR concourse is beautiful, as is Moynihan Hall. The Amtrak and NJT concourse expansions would already be underway if it weren't for you-know-who, who cancelled the existing improvement plans.

And then the Grand Penn "plan" would produce "a soaring classical architectural masterpiece even better than the beautiful landmark that was demolished in 1964?" Who are these idiots? The proposal replaces MSG with a park.

[NYguy]

Vornado is a part of the Halmar team....








What they are proposing is a nod to a more "classical" looking entrance to the station...




https://www.hok.com/news/2023-06/astm-north-america-unveils-plan-for-new-penn-station/







I think it fails at that, especially when you consider it will be directly facing the Moyniah/Farley building.

I believe they should take the opposite approach, and try for a more modern design, something that would actually bring balance.

Something like the Extell proposal from a few years ago comes to mind. It flows better with the Garden, and would create a distinctive focal point where there is now just dead space.

[ChiND]

If, in fact, ASTM’s plan is selected, Sarah Palin’s famous line would be apropos.
Moreover, track congestion and train capacity, which is a serious problem, will not be addressed.

That being said, I wonder what their proposed design looks like. This obviously is not classical.

[mschall50]

Originally Posted by NYguy

Vornado is a part of the Halmar team....








What they are proposing is a nod to a more "classical" looking entrance to the station...




https://www.hok.com/news/2023-06/astm-north-america-unveils-plan-for-new-penn-station/







I think it fails at that, especially when you consider it will be directly facing the Moyniah/Farley building.

I believe they should take the opposite approach, and try for a more modern design, something that would actually bring balance.

Something like the Extell proposal from a few years ago comes to mind. It flows better with the Garden, and would create a distinctive focal point where there is now just dead space.

yikes, that second proposal looks ridiculous

[Crawford]

I like the Halmar proposal. Looks very nice to me.

And it's supported by the actual stakeholders. Vornado and MSG both support Halmar. And it appears you know who does too.

The main concourse looks iconic. Same with the two mid-block glass atria. And unlike the other proposals, this actually fits with everything else existing/planned at Penn.

Lots of renderings here:
https://pau.studio/what/new-new-york-penn/

[ChiND]

If, in fact, the Halmar plan is chosen, the government should use eminent domain to seize the parcels on the east side of Seventh between 33rd and 34th that Vornado does not own so that a new entrance to Penn could be added there, and an office or residential/hotel tower could rise above it. That vile block must go.

We'll know soon enough.

[Crawford]

Agreed. That block is horrible and needs to be redeveloped.

[ChiND]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Agreed. That block is horrible and needs to be redeveloped.

Same with 31st between 7th and 8th. The Grand Penn Plan envisions a tower on the site of the huge garage with an ancillary station hall at the base. If Halmar is selected, that eyesore should still go. The adjacent, old Penn Station powerhouse should go to. It's an eyesore. We raze a lot of gorgeous old buildings in NYC. That PoS should not be spared.

Anyway, it will be very sad if we're missing the opportunity of a lifetime to save a few shekels.