The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[StatelyElms]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Frederictonian only vaguely familiar with this blaring through. I thought it had been planned to go for a heritage design... what is *that*?

Yeeg. Oh well. Glad you can't see it from many landmarks. Another case of pretty in render, ugly in life?

[cdnguys]

Final rendering of what is being built. This reminds me of Burlington Flats type quality build. I’m no architect, but here are my thoughts on it as someone who enjoys design:
- love the deep roof overhangs, more modern than pitched roofs.
- the vertical lines really stand out and gives it an institutional stature (such as the Hans W. Klohn Commons pic below),which is appropriate for nearby Tucker Park UNBSJ/SJRH campus, where I assume they are targeting for professional residents.
- love the centre glass feature of building, again giving it that university building feel that anchors it.
- the contrasting colours and vertical / horizontal siding gives it visual appeal. The strong layering also gives it visual punch.
- the building itself looks like something you’d see in the Okanagan of BC - which seems really appropriate for the location of thick forested area with water views.

Just my opinion, but I’m very happy with it - it’s going to look nice sitting up a bit on a hill surrounded by green forest. I think it’s destination living being a beautiful natural setting near an employment hub - nice combo.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by StatelyElms

Frederictonian only vaguely familiar with this blaring through. I thought it had been planned to go for a heritage design... what is *that*?

Yeeg. Oh well. Glad you can't see it from many landmarks. Another case of pretty in render, ugly in life?

Nah, this one was ugly in renderings too. One of the very early renderings was decent but I suspect cost realities hit this particular developer and the "cheapening" began.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Final rendering of what is being built. This reminds me of Burlington Flats type quality build. I’m no architect, but here are my thoughts on it as someone who enjoys design:
- love the deep roof overhangs, more modern than pithed roofs.
- the vertical lines really stand out and gives it an institutional stature (such as the Hans W. Klohn Commons pic below),which is appropriate for nearby Tucker Park UNBSJ/SJRH campus, where I assume they are targeting for professional residents.
- love the centre glass feature of building, again giving it that university building feel that anchors it.
- the contrasting colours and vertical / horizontal siding gives it visual appeal. The strong layering also gives it visual punch.
- the building itself looks like something you’d see in the Okanagan of BC - which seems really appropriate for the location of thick forested area with water views.

Just my opinion, but I’m very happy with it - it’s going to look nice sitting up a bit on a hill surrounded by green forest. I think it’s destination living being a beautiful natural setting near an employment hub - nice combo.

I agree ....That's a decent looking building for a 6 story rectangular box. Lots of details to dress up the basic shape. Shows what can be done with a little effort and imagination.

[adamuptownsj]

Found these overdue road improvements near Rockwood in the council agenda. Nearly a kilometer of actual sidewalk better connecting the park to the North End.

I always thought that 5-way intersection at Parks and Mt Pleasant would be better as a roundabout, since we're on the subject.

Arrow Walk Road (Hawthorne Avenue Extension to Mount Pleasant Avenue): Asphalt Maintenance Resurfacing and Concrete Curb and Sidewalk Installation.

Hawthorne Avenue (Parks Street to Sandy Point Road): Asphalt Maintenance Resurfacing and Concrete Curb and Sidewalk Installation.

Hawthorne Avenue Extension (Sandy Point Road to Arrow Walk Road): Asphalt Maintenance Resurfacing and Concrete Curb and Sidewalk Installation.

[adamuptownsj]

Clearly something isn't working at the 'green zones': between the 54 units provided, only 41 are occupied.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Found these overdue road improvements near Rockwood in the council agenda. Nearly a kilometer of actual sidewalk better connecting the park to the North End.

I always thought that 5-way intersection at Parks and Mt Pleasant would be better as a roundabout, since we're on the subject.

Arrow Walk Road (Hawthorne Avenue Extension to Mount Pleasant Avenue): Asphalt Maintenance Resurfacing and Concrete Curb and Sidewalk Installation.

Hawthorne Avenue (Parks Street to Sandy Point Road): Asphalt Maintenance Resurfacing and Concrete Curb and Sidewalk Installation.

Hawthorne Avenue Extension (Sandy Point Road to Arrow Walk Road): Asphalt Maintenance Resurfacing and Concrete Curb and Sidewalk Installation.

Cannot wait for these improvements, the "sidewalk" (if you can even call that elevated mess of asphalt a sidewalk) alone after the intersection with Mount Pleasant is an embarrassment and frankly treacherous to use most of the year. Not the mention the road itself is a mess. There's an increasing amount of traffic through there on the way to Sandy Point Rd and on to Millidgeville so making it safer should have been a priority years ago.

I hear what you're saying about the 5-way intersection, I live quite close to it but it has too much of a grade change I think to be able to fit a roundabout. If you approach it from Cedar Grove or Parks St and come to a stop, the slope is pretty evident. Honestly the traffic volumes are low enough that it really doesn't matter much that it's a 5-way stop.

[cdnguys]

[cdnguys]

[cdnguys]

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Is that the final "full" floor before penthouse?

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Is that the final "full" floor before penthouse?

Yes

[NewIreland]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Is that the final "full" floor before penthouse?

I genuinely wonder how this thing stacks up against the ugliest buildings currently under construction globally. It has to be up there. I mean, it's a completely uninspired faux brutalist (imagine... FAUX brutalist) box with a cheap glue-on brick fauxdium. The cheap generic white frame windows are the icing on the slop. THANKS PERCY!

[bingun]

Originally Posted by NewIreland

I genuinely wonder how this thing stacks up against the ugliest buildings currently under construction globally. It has to be up there. I mean, it's a completely uninspired faux brutalist (imagine... FAUX brutalist) box with a cheap glue-on brick fauxdium. The cheap generic white frame windows are the icing on the slop. THANKS PERCY!

The Saint John penal colony headquarters .

The lack of balconies is going to kill them. Between that, the prices, the appearance, and the slowdown in immigration, I don't think they are going to be able to rent the non-subsidized units.

If I have a high budget for a rental, why would I live here over Fundy Quay, one of Historica's apartments, or one of the nice rental buildings in Millidgeville?

Look at this unit.

[NewIreland]

Originally Posted by bingun

The Saint John penal colony headquarters .

The lack of balconies is going to kill them. Between that, the prices, the appearance, and the slowdown in immigration, I don't think they are going to be able to rent the non-subsidized units.

If I have a high budget for a rental, why would I live here over Fundy Quay, one of Historica's apartments, or one of the nice rental buildings in Millidgeville?

Slapping a penthouse on this hideous abomination is one of the most audaciously stupid developer decisions I've seen in my lifetime. It's basically a Soviet Khrushchevka. Own it for Christ's sake! And I agree... there are a lot of much better options coming online in Saint John. The views are a negligible selling point in this unsightly beast. Those cheap crank-open casement windows will be filled with condensation by Christmas and the outside will be covered in pigeon shit.

[sailor734]

4125??? That seems crazy for what this is.

Up until the end of last year I know someone living in a 1425sq ft condo on the 25th floor on False Creek in Vancouver (directly on the seawall). Corner unit with views out False Creek to English Bay on one side and North Shore Mountains the other. 24hr concierge, 50' indoor pool, large gym with commercial grade equipment, hot tubs, sauna and steam room, guest suites,meeting rooms, very cool landscaped courtyard with artificial pool and waterfall.
Rental came with 2 underground parking spaces w. charging stations, storage unit, marble foyer, marble master bath with sunken 6' tub, separate glass walled shower, bidet and double sinks. Kitchen with Sub Zero fridge, Viking gas stove, Dishwasher and wine fridge. LR had gas fireplace and central AC with window walls. Balcony was maybe 6'x18-20'. Had Natural gas hookup for BBQ
Rent? about $500/month more than this....apples and oranges.

Edit In fairness they rented about 4 years ago and had benefited from BC's rent control. New tenants are probably paying north of 5K but still.....this thing looks like either a 70's era urban university dorm or the Federal detention facility in New York or Chicago.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by sailor734

4125??? That seems crazy for what this is.

Up until the end of last year I know someone living in a 1425sq ft condo on the 25th floor on False Creek in Vancouver (directly on the seawall). Corner unit with views out False Creek to English Bay on one side and North Shore Mountains the other. 24hr concierge, 50' indoor pool, large gym with commercial grade equipment, hot tubs, sauna and steam room, guest suites, landscaped courtyard with artificial pool and waterfall.
Rental came with 2 underground parking spaces w. charging stations, marble foyer, marble master bath with sunken 6' tub, separate glass walled shower. Kitchen with Sub Zero fridge, Viking gas stove, Dishwasher and wine fridge. LR had gas fireplace and central AC with window walls. Balcony was maybe 6'x18-20'. Had Natural gas hookup for BBQ
Rent? about $500/month more than this....apples and oranges.

You see a lot of local people on Facebook say 'for that money, you can rent a house!', 'That's more than my mortgage!', but many of them are missing the point completely.

The people renting apartments like these don't want a house. They want a manageable space, they don't have to spend all day cleaning, the convenience of being close to work, restaurants, and services, and a certain element of luxury to enjoy and show off to their friends and family. Sounds exactly like what you've described in Vancouver. Perhaps the internal finishes on these units will be fantastic, but I just don't see it. Maybe the shared Rooftop Penthouse will be an amazing space, but I also doubt it.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

The Saint John penal colony headquarters .

The lack of balconies is going to kill them. Between that, the prices, the appearance, and the slowdown in immigration, I don't think they are going to be able to rent the non-subsidized units.

If I have a high budget for a rental, why would I live here over Fundy Quay, one of Historica's apartments, or one of the nice rental buildings in Millidgeville?

If it has a grocery store on the first floor, and underground parking, it could be worth renting there, especially for people without cars. Even if the commercial space isn't something as in demand as a grocery store, this is still an exceptional location in the heart of the city. But yeah, I don't think they will be able to rent the non subsidized units at the price they want... they will have to significantly lower the price considering this is going to be one of the ugliest and tackiest apartment buildings in Canada.

I think it's embarrassing the GNB has to be involved with partially funding and financing crappy projects like this at all instead of just funding the construction of entire apartment buildings bigger and better than 99 King... At least those 32 subsidized units are one of the few good things to say about this project.. so I guess it's better the GNB did get involved with this project in the end. I'd just rather see the government build some better projects in our city centres.

If NB Housing made it a goal to put up a dozen high rises with affordable rents across the city centres of the big three over the next decade (a long with low rise and mid rise infill projects) we could build our way out of the housing crisis, like the PM says we should, and continue to pursue higher levels of immigration and demographic growth which the province needs to keep up these new levels of economic growth and development.

Low housing costs have been one of NB's biggest pull factors... I think it would be prudent for the province to think long term, and not just think about how do we fix the current housing crisis, but rather, plan for the province to be 1 million+ people and more aggressively pursue policies that attract new residents. Part of this has to be making NB more friendly to property developers, and giving private developers incentives based on the size and scale of their projects, but the province also needs to play a bigger role in expanding the supply of publicly owned affordable rental housing.

Imo, the best way for the province to do that is to massively invest in our cities, all of which deserve projects nicer than 99 King. So far Moncton is the only city in NB that's putting up any decent residential high rises... hopefully Fundy Quay's high rises live up to the renders... but if there's any hope in hell of all those buildings getting built as seen in the renders, our local band of Rothesayites will likely have to go begging to the feds and province for a lot more money. 💸💸💸

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by bingun

You see a lot of local people on Facebook say 'for that money, you can rent a house!', 'That's more than my mortgage!', but many of them are missing the point completely.

The people renting apartments like these don't want a house. They want a manageable space, they don't have to spend all day cleaning, the convenience of being close to work, restaurants, and services, and a certain element of luxury to enjoy and show off to their friends and family. Sounds exactly like what you've described in Vancouver. Perhaps the internal finishes on these units will be fantastic, but I just don't see it. Maybe the shared Rooftop Penthouse will be an amazing space, but I also doubt it.

For that money I'd want 2 indoor parking spots, concierge, and a health club with pool (maybe even indoor/outdoor on the roof.) That would be in addition to genuinely high end finishes and features in the unit.

One of the biggest issues I see with this building is it's dimensions and thus the the lack of exterior walls and windows in many units. Like liking in a cave.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

If it has a grocery store on the first floor, and underground parking, it could be worth renting there, especially for people without cars. Even if the commercial space isn't something as in demand as a grocery store, this is still an exceptional location in the heart of the city. But yeah, I don't think they will be able to rent the non subsidized units at the price they want... they will have to significantly lower the price considering this is going to be one of the ugliest and tackiest apartment buildings in Canada.

Some of the earlier reporting on this development mentioned 57 parking spaces. I can't find anything more recent, but even if there is more than the first reported, it's not enough.

There are 152 units total, with I think 32 being affordable. Let's assume nobody who lives in an affordable unit is allowed a parking spot, which is brutal (poor and disabled people don't drive, apparently). Let's also assume the businesses that operate in the building, or whoever is responsible for managing it, isn't allowed a spot either, that leaves potentially 0.5 parking spots per non-affordable unit.

There are 11 suites on each of the top two 'penthouse levels'. Assuming they get at least one spot per unit, that leaves as few as 35 spaces for the other 100-odd units.

Imagine paying $4,000+ for a penthouse unit, but your partner has to park their car at Peel Plaza because you only have one parking spot. It is a nice walk in February, trust me, I have done it before.

Before someone says we should be encouraging people to be less car-reliant, I fully agree, but this isn't going to be effective. The city is a long way from being non-car-friendly or having sufficient public transport.