Alto High Speed Rail

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Poilievre is coming out officially against high-speed rail, in a pander to the rural uproar.

Revenge for Ottawa voters not re-electing him.

Frankly, he hates the city that he represented so long. Just look at his disgusting behaviour when he pandered to the trucker convoy in 2022. I would like to know how he was going to end the convoy?

But who cares if we spend hundreds of millions of tax money on a project and then shelve it. Money well flushed down the toilet.

He is trying to build outrage amongst western voters. Why should we build it for Ontario and Quebec? But we should spend at least that amount on an Alberta pipeline.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

If the liberals were serious about this project, there wouldn't be so many open question public consultation about basic project concepts. Like how will road crossings be dealt with, or where the stations should be located (this is answered by math not the public), & etc.

My Brother in Presto, the whole concept is still at a phenomenally early stage and it is perfectly natural for some of these questions to still be open ones.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

He is trying to build outrage amongst western voters. Why should we build it for Ontario and Quebec? But we should spend at least that amount on an Alberta pipeline.

Or on Edmonton-Calgary rail, which is the other Canadian corridor where it kinda makes sense, at least at first blush.

[Truenorth00]

Makes my next few federal elections easy.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Makes my next few federal elections easy.

HSR is that key for you?

I kind of respect the honesty (we all knew it was dead with a 2029 Con government) even though it's not done out of honesty but rural pandering.

[Kitchissippi]

I actually would not mind if this was dialled back down towards the HFR+ concept with all crossings grade separated. More stations and a mix of express and milk runs. Build it for a quarter of the cost and half the time. Make the tracks useable for some local commuter trains.

Like a lot of people, all I really wanted was just a more reliable VIA Rail, and while time is a factor I think people take the train mostly for comfort and convenience, and an hour difference between a Toronto-Ottawa run isn't such a big deal when you can work or have relaxing time on the train.

[Richard Eade]

I agree with this sentiment. I think that people just want good, reliable transportation from point A to Z. If it is faster and easier than alternatives, then it will get more ridership.

In this case, I don’t think that true ‘High-Speed’ is required to get people to use the train more – but it will help attract additional riders. The same with electric propulsion. It isn’t a requirement, but it might attract additional customers. (Although, if an overhead catenary system results in unreliability in winter, that will kill ridership. See Confederation Line.)

I am keen on the non-freight-owned, more direct, route from Toronto to Ottawa. Having control of the corridor will be a huge ‘win’. As such, it would also be an opportunity to add additional riders from locations that long-ago lost rail access. I am thinking about Perth, but not every whistle-stop along the route.

Adding additional stops, of course, reduces the speed of the service – but I think that it is a worthwhile trade off. It is the Concorde (such a gorgeous aircraft!) debate. There is a small pool of people who have the means to spend a lot more to travel faster, but does that bring in more revenue than moving more people slower, but at a lower profit per passenger. The Concorde has been retired; while multi-seat, cheaper flights have proliferated.

I feel that the promise of running a high-speed train every 30-20 minutes is trying to steal the benefit of VIA’s High-Frequency Rail plan. More of a “Well, we’ll do that too – only faster.” It is easy to make wild promises to get approval for something, but reality may be different. (Again, see Confederation Line.)

I’m fine with cutting the 4- to 5-hour trip (4 hours scheduled + up to 1 hour delay) between Toronto and Ottawa to a reliable 2.5- to 3-hour trip. That would still beat driving, time-wise, by almost half. (Can’t advertise less than 4h55, legally.)

And if I can get 250 KPH for half the price of the 300+KPH, I don’t mind stopping to let on other riders to share the cost.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

HSR is that key for you?

Yes.

It's not just the project. It's the transformation opportunity it creates. And quite frankly I'm fucking sick and pissed at this country for not building anything and having zero real ambition in my life time. I'm a single issue voter for the next few elections.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I kind of respect the honesty (we all knew it was dead with a 2029 Con government) even though it's not done out of honesty but rural pandering.

I hope the CPC pays a heavy price for this. Polling shows even conservatives have majority and net support for this:

https://www.altno.ca/_files/ugd/f1a60d_f91a3f0ada144cb981f03a0da603e347.pdf

Most hilariously, that's a website opposing Alto. They are now trying to argue that 25% strong support is weak. Even though overall support is 62%. And total opposed is 18%.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

My Brother in Presto, the whole concept is still at a phenomenally early stage and it is perfectly natural for some of these questions to still be open ones.

The Alto crew is a bit incompetent with politics here. They probably shouldn't have done the public consultations so early. Or at least not when they aren't willing to share more. All they did was give enough ammo to the rural nuts with that Southern route. Also, they really should be more detailed with the costing and the phasing. Just saying "$60 to 90 billion" ballpark is politically irresponsible.

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The Alto crew is a bit incompetent with politics here. They probably shouldn't have done the public consultations so early. Or at least not when they aren't willing to share more. All they did was give enough ammo to the rural nuts with that Southern route. Also, they really should be more detailed with the costing and the phasing. Just saying "$60 to 90 billion" ballpark is politically irresponsible.

Agreed I'm that this consultation was bad, the difference is in my opinion is I don't think it's incompetent politics on Alto part as I think they were forced into it by the LPC.

Also, PP really should have taken the route of yes & forcing the gov into answering whether an albertan HSR is in the plans, instead of being an idiot railing against expropriation which will be required to build much needed pipelines and other GDP growing infrastructure.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

Also, PP really should have taken the route of yes & forcing the gov into answering whether an albertan HSR is in the plans, instead of being an idiot railing against expropriation which will be required to build much needed pipelines and other GDP growing infrastructure.

This cements in my mind. The CPC is the party of "No". The only thing they will ever want to build are pipelines. Literally no other vision for this country. Pipelines and tax cuts. They probably turns Yowetal on. Does nothing for me though.

The LPC may be incompetent. But at least Carney actually wants to build something. Even pipelines begrudgingly.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Or on Edmonton-Calgary rail, which is the other Canadian corridor where it kinda makes sense, at least at first blush.

The Province of Alberta has mused at the possibility. Would be worthwhile for Carney to openly support that plan and offer some financial backing.

[J.OT13]

David Bellerive from Rail Fans on public support for Alto:

https://www.railfans.ca/news/canadians-support-high-speed-rail

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

This cements in my mind. The CPC is the party of "No". The only thing they will ever want to build are pipelines. Literally no other vision for this country. Pipelines and tax cuts. They probably turns Yowetal on. Does nothing for me though.

The LPC may be incompetent. But at least Carney actually wants to build something. Even pipelines begrudgingly.

The LPC are entirely incompetent along with many other much worse things....

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/cha...al-connection-to-high-speed-rail-company

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

The LPC are entirely incompetent along with many other much worse things....

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/cha...al-connection-to-high-speed-rail-company

Ah yes. A National Post article disparaging the LPC. Let me take that one to the bank.

We should pretty much stop reading any and all national media and just rely on Reddit with a grain of salt. I wish I was kidding.

I get better and more accurate information from you people here.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

The LPC are entirely incompetent along with many other much worse things....

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/cha...al-connection-to-high-speed-rail-company

What is the "worse thing" in this scenario?

[pattherat]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

The LPC are entirely incompetent along with many other much worse things....

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/cha...al-connection-to-high-speed-rail-company

Interesting timing of the article considering he stepped back the moment his wife got hired….months ago.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by pattherat

Interesting timing of the article considering he stepped back the moment his wife got hired….months ago.

Stepped back how? He is still the finance minister.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

This cements in my mind. The CPC is the party of "No". The only thing they will ever want to build are pipelines. Literally no other vision for this country. Pipelines and tax cuts. They probably turns Yowetal on. Does nothing for me though.

The LPC may be incompetent. But at least Carney actually wants to build something. Even pipelines begrudgingly.

I mean you're right it's a blanket no. Japan or even Musk could offer us a free demosntration product train and they'd complain about the noise or operating costs.

But, surely you aren't just in favour of any project. The math is very tough on this even as we throw money at everything else making the cost less daunting. We are still cutting the food inspection folks and supports for exporters because of budget cuts so it's not like money is free.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Stepped back how? He is still the finance minister.

Stepped back from any Alto related talks. He's not going to step down as Finance Minister because he has a conflict with one Government project.