Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW)

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 84

Sun flights count (both transborder & international): 17

Today's cancellation count (so far): 0

[RomanR27]

Noticing that from in June, seems that 4/10 Rapidair YOW-YYZ turns will be on the Rouge 7M8. Also not seeing much 223s, mostly 320/321s for the mainline flights.

[Rhb]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

Noticing that from in June, seems that 4/10 Rapidair YOW-YYZ turns will be on the Rouge 7M8. Also not seeing much 223s, mostly 320/321s for the mainline flights.

Apparently Rouge is no longer a downgrade from AC Mainline.
Here is a column from View from the wing on Negotiations between AC and CUPE.
I find this amusing.
https://viewfromthewing.com/air-canada-f...-furious-about-better-seats-and-service/

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 90

Sun flights count (both transborder & international): 12 - two to LIR scheduled today

Today's cancellation count (so far): 0

[Richard Eade]

I was on a couple of Air Canada planes last week (FINs 576, 573). I was sure that they were Rouge, but the flight attendants assured me that they were ‘regular’ AC. (I know that these planes were originally kitted with Lynx standards, and are ultimately destined to be shifted to Rouge – but how does AC justify using them under the Air Canada name?) When they say that the distinction between AC and Rouge is being reduced, my experience is that AC is dropping closer to Rouge level.

Apparently, nobody at AC has stopped to think that one of the reasons that Lynx went out of business was because they couldn’t convince enough people to fly in such horrible conditions – even at a discounted price. With AC charging regular prices for the same seats, it is driving away any repeat business.

After such painful (literally!) flights, I have sworn off AC – in any form – if there is any other option. I need to go to Florida in November. AC lost that trip to Porter.

[fanofYOW]

^ Not too sure why people from YOW would even consider AC over PD if the destination is in PD's network. Not a lot of people think of the fact that if Porter goes down due to lack of support, Ottawa residence are going to spend the rest of their lives connecting in YYZ or YUL instead of having the convenience of direct.

If YOW-LGW goes well for TS and they pump YOW with more European destinations with PD's feed, you could start seeing people in YUL drive to YOW on random days when prices are better from YOW, which may offset the ones from YOW driving to YUL a bit.

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 86

Sun flights count (both transborder & international): 12

Today's cancellation count (so far): 2

[kevinbottawa]

I don't know much about airports. Is the province lengthening Billy Bishop's runway and allowing jets in an expanded airport a threat to YOW as a major hub for Porter?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

I don't know much about airports. Is the province lengthening Billy Bishop's runway and allowing jets in an expanded airport a threat to YOW as a major hub for Porter?

I’m no expert, but I’ve got to think that it will steal more flights from Pearson than Ottawa. I guess it mostly depends on how many connections end up being routed through Billy Bishop. I know they are saying it could expand to 10 million passengers, but given how confined the site is and the lack of amenities or surrounding infrastructure, that seems hard to believe. I suspect it will always be primarily an airport offering short and medium haul O & D from Toronto, but I stand to be corrected by someone who knows the industry better.

[RomanR27]

YOW-YHM launching June 22.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

I don't know much about airports. Is the province lengthening Billy Bishop's runway and allowing jets in an expanded airport a threat to YOW as a major hub for Porter?

No expert either, but like others have mentioned, more likely YYZ is going to take the hit.

Glad to see YHM on the list now. It makes sense. However, I'm surprised there isn't a daily Dash between YOW and YHU where both can feed each other.

[Dominion301]

I would hazard a guess the YOW-YHM announcement will come tomorrow or Thursday so as to not steal from YHU's thunder.

Today’s departure count: 80

Sun flights count (both transborder & international): 12

Today's cancellation count (so far): 3

[fanofYOW]

Does it say anywhere which routes are served with which type of frame yet? For example YHU-YYG or YOW-YHM? Or do we need to do some dummy bookings to find out?

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Does it say anywhere which routes are served with which type of frame yet? For example YHU-YYG or YOW-YHM? Or do we need to do some dummy bookings to find out?

I did a bunch of dummy bookings. YTZ (naturally), YHM, YQM & YYG are on the DH4. Everything else is on the E95. That's a lot of airplane for a single daily YQB-YHU, but it also makes the YQB E95 schedule make sense as there was a clear scheduling gap when they announced the return of YYZ-YQB.

It's also a lot of airplane for YHU-YHZ. Given YQM and YYG are summer seasonal, I suspect YHZ-YHU will be a DH4 in the winter months.

Here's the YHM-YHU schedule:

PD 2437 YHU-YHM 1555-1725
PD 2439 YHU-YHM 1855-2025

PD 2438 YHM-YHU 0615-0735
PD 2436 YHM-YHU 1550-1710

As can be seen, it is obvious the YHM DH4 schedule has gaps. You can see how YOW-YHM will likely be 2x daily too, but at a minimum of 1x daily, which would look something like:

PD 2XXX YOW-YHM 1400-1515
PD 2XXX YHM-YOW 1805-1915

So this will be a 3rd 1400ish DH4 departure to go along with YQG & YSB. The question will be if there will be a 2nd daily, likely with a YHM RON to feed the morning bank at around 0830-0930.

A daily YHM will now take PD to slightly above their summer 2025 capacity levels, whereas 2x daily would increase overall capacity by about 5%.

[MountainView]

So serious question... what is the point or optics of doing a YHM-YOW flight? Porter built out E2 ops from YHM to the major cities. There's no way there is 70 seats O&D / day on this route. It's very confusing.

YOW to Pearson, Billy Bishop, and Hamilton... lots of capacity.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by MountainView

So serious question... what is the point or optics of doing a YHM-YOW flight? Porter built out E2 ops from YHM to the major cities. There's no way there is 70 seats O&D / day on this route. It's very confusing.

YOW to Pearson, Billy Bishop, and Hamilton... lots of capacity.

Back in the CanJet 737 days of YHM-YOW there was significantly more than 70 O&D pax per direction per day...I’m speaking from loads of personal experience on this. However, the 737 was too much airplane for over half the week. Friday & Sunday night it was almost always sold out but loads on a Tuesday morning were often under 40%. Twice daily DH4 with a plethora of YOW connections will be a perfect amount of capacity. Keep in mind YOW-YTO capacity is still over 1/3 lower than in 2019, so there’s definitely room for more capacity to/from the Golden Horseshoe.

[RomanR27]

2x daily YHM flights are loaded, on the DH4 as expected.

PD2445 YOW 0835 0943 YHM
PD2447 YOW 1400 1508 YHM

PD2446 YHM 1025 1129 YOW
PD2448 YHM 1835 1939 YOW

With that, on Fridays in the summer we are now at 99 departures.

16x YYZ (10x AC, 4x PD and 2x WS)
11x YTZ (6x AC, 5x PD)
9x YUL (8x AC, 1x TS)
8x YYC (3x WS, 2x PD, 1x AC)
7x YHZ (4x PD, 3x AC)
5x YVR (3x AC, 2x PD)
5x EWR (3x UA, 2x PD)
4x YWG (2x PD, 1x AC, 1x WS)
4x IAD
3x YEG (2x PD, 1x WS)
3x YFC (2x PD, 1x AC)
3x ORD
2x YQM (1x PD, 1x AC)
2x YHM
2x YFB
1x YQT/YYG/YSB/YQG/YYT/YDF/YLW/YYJ/BOS/MCO/CUN (PD)
1x YQB/DCA (AC)
1x CDG
1x LGW

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

2x daily YHM flights are loaded, on the DH4 as expected.

PD2445 YOW 0835 0943 YHM
PD2447 YOW 1400 1508 YHM

PD2446 YHM 1025 1129 YOW
PD2448 YHM 1835 1939 YOW

With that, on Fridays in the summer we are now at 99 departures.

16x YYZ (10x AC, 4x PD and 2x WS)
11x YTZ (6x AC, 5x PD)
9x YUL (8x AC, 1x TS)
8x YYC (3x WS, 2x PD, 1x AC)
7x YHZ (4x PD, 3x AC)
5x YVR (3x AC, 2x PD)
5x EWR (3x UA, 2x PD)
4x YWG (2x PD, 1x AC, 1x WS)
4x IAD
3x YEG (2x PD, 1x WS)
3x YFC (2x PD, 1x AC)
3x ORD
2x YQM (1x PD, 1x AC)
2x YHM
2x YFB
1x YQT/YYG/YSB/YQG/YYT/YDF/YLW/YYJ/BOS/MCO/CUN (PD)
1x YQB/DCA (AC)
1x CDG
1x LGW

Here's the official announcement for YHM-YOW: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/2...milton-and-Ottawa-With-New-Daily-Service

So with this addition, PD will be net capacity positive at YOW this summer. The real scratcher still though is reducing YOW-YVR capacity. Barring further global escalations and major oil price increases, if transborder can stay under -10%, I think 5 million should be easily surpassed and with YHM coming online 5.1 million should be doable.

Today’s departure count: 80

Sun flights count (both transborder & international): 11

Today's cancellation count (so far): 0

[fanofYOW]

PD is going to announce next winter's schedule/new additions within a month.

https://youtu.be/AlzHldzjPSU?si=lbaY8gsEJs9rZxd9

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

PD is going to announce next winter's schedule/new additions within a month.

https://youtu.be/AlzHldzjPSU?si=lbaY8gsEJs9rZxd9

Thanks for sharing - "it's gonna be significantly expanded".

In that vein, looking at what's already loaded.

- CUN is 4x weekly from the start of the winter schedule, up to daily as of 16DEC
- LIR is 4x weekly, starts 18DEC
- PVR has a Saturday flight from the start of the winter schedule, seems to be 2-3x weekly the rest of winter
- No GCM or NAS
- FLL and MCO are only daily, rather than 2x daily we've seen
- No TPA, RSW, MIA or PHX

So maybe the sun capacity increase will come largely at the expense of existing TB routes. From what's loaded though, only CUN is increased (and modestly at 6x -> 7x weekly), everything else is a reduction. I had seen on another forum rumours of SXM and MEX a while back...

On a separate note, noticed that AF has sprinkled in some 77W in July/August. Only two more LHR flights on the 788 before going up to 4x weekly on the 333 starting Monday. Sunday's AC889 was full in PY and 18/20 J. AC888 was full in both premium cabins. I didn't get AC889 today, but AC888 is 17/19 J and 18/21 PY.