General Vancouver Development Updates II

[hollywoodnorth]

Crane is up for the rental tower at Broadway and Ontario

https://www.shapeyourcity.ca/2520-ontario-st-and-2-24-e-broadway

Revised submission (April 2024)

To amend the existing CD-1 By-law (826) for a 21-storey mixed-use building which includes:

Commercial uses at grade
A 37-space space childcare facility;
168 market rental units;
A floor space ratio (FSR) of 8.5;
A building height of 62 m (204 ft.);
56 vehicle parking spaces and 460 bicycle parking spaces; and
A publicly-accessible bike share station.

[Changing City]

In the latest round of legal disputes between Beedie and the VSB on the rent (and valuation) of Kingsgate Mall, the Supreme Court has agreed with the lower courts that previously said the rent should be $1.65 million per year and not the $9.6 million per year that the VSB have been trying to get.

Beedie have to decide whether to renew the 10-year lease for the mall that runs out on November 19th.

I'd guess that Shoppers, the LDB and Save-On will be there for a while, unless the VSB finally decide they want to negotiate a sale.

[jollyburger]

Social housing tower near Joyce

5027-5053 Boundary Rd rezoning application

The City of Vancouver has received an application to rezone the subject site from CD-1 (241) (Comprehensive Development) District to CD-1 (Comprehensive Development) District. The proposal is to allow for the development of a 22-storey mixed-use residential building with a four-storey podium and includes:

216 social housing units;
A private childcare centre;
Commercial and retail use on the ground floor;
A floor space ratio (FSR) of 7.98; and
A building height of 70.1 m (230 ft.) with a rooftop amenity space.

https://www.shapeyourcity.ca/5027-5053-boundary-rd

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

In the latest round of legal disputes between Beedie and the VSB on the rent (and valuation) of Kingsgate Mall, the Supreme Court has agreed with the lower courts that previously said the rent should be $1.65 million per year and not the $9.6 million per year that the VSB have been trying to get.

Beedie have to decide whether to renew the 10-year lease for the mall that runs out on November 19th.

I'd guess that Shoppers, the LDB and Save-On will be there for a while, unless the VSB finally decide they want to negotiate a sale.

Does the VSB gave the option of not letting Beedie renew?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Does the VSB gave the option of not letting Beedie renew?

I have no idea. But I think the usual situation with a lease is that it may allow the lesee to extend it for a stipulated period - in this case it's apparently 10 years. The news story said the court moved speedily to determine the amount of rent, because Beedie has to decide if they want to extend it. That suggests it's their choice, and the VSB have to continue to lease it to them (presumably with a continued rent based on the valuation of the existing mall).

[hollywoodnorth]

5027-5053 Boundary Rd rezoning application - wow that is amazing to see. The street front retail is awesome and then the private childcare center and the 22-floor social housing units. Amazing so close to SKYTRAIN and the views on some of those upper floors are going to be amazing any direction.

[PBlonde]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Does the VSB gave the option of not letting Beedie renew?

I can't imagine it would make commercial sense for Beedie to sign a long term lease so they could develop the site that didn't allow for them to solely control the ability to extend it, subject of course to them not being in default. Otherwise any development value they create could be taken away immediately. I thought Beedie took over the lease because they intended to redevelop it but the VSB blocked all attempts to change the zoning/increase density, but maybe I'm imagining having read that somewhere else.
It would make sense that the rent adjustment comes with each extension as it's Beedie's option to terminate if the rent is too much.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Changing City

In the latest round of legal disputes between Beedie and the VSB on the rent (and valuation) of Kingsgate Mall, the Supreme Court has agreed with the lower courts that previously said the rent should be $1.65 million per year and not the $9.6 million per year that the VSB have been trying to get.

Beedie have to decide whether to renew the 10-year lease for the mall that runs out on November 19th.

I'd guess that Shoppers, the LDB and Save-On will be there for a while, unless the VSB finally decide they want to negotiate a sale.

Is this a hard decision? Make 1.65 million per year in rent, or sell the land for 300+ million dollars.

After that court decision, it has to be a no brainer to sell the land.

The Kingsgate Mall site is the centre of Mt. Pleasant, and will be its signature development, with likely 5 residential towers, and a large, destination level retail component. I'm anxious to see some proposals for that site. Lots of potential there.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by logan5

Is this a hard decision? Make 1.65 million per year in rent, or sell the land for 300+ million dollars.

After that court decision, it has to be a no brainer to sell the land.

The Kingsgate Mall site is the centre of Mt. Pleasant, and will be its signature development, with likely 5 residential towers, and a large, destination level retail component. I'm anxious to see some proposals for that site. Lots of potential there.

It's not worth $300m. Current assessed value is $112m, down from $180m last year. Up to now VSB haven't been willing to sell the site. Maybe a new Board might consider it.

[PBlonde]

Originally Posted by Changing City

It's not worth $300m. Current assessed value is $112m, down from $180m last year. Up to now VSB haven't been willing to sell the site. Maybe a new Board might consider it.

Of all the times to sell, now is not the time to do it. They should've capitalized on the ludicrously high land prices of 4/5 years ago. They're better off sitting on it for another 5 years to wait and see if land prices recover.
Either way, I wonder if a sale of the land to anyone other than Beedie would mean Beedie can keep the lease in full force and effect and force the new owner to wait until the lease expires while they keep paying low, low rents. If so, at an NOI of $1.65M that land is only worth $41M at a cap rate of 4%.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Changing City

It's not worth $300m. Current assessed value is $112m, down from $180m last year. Up to now VSB haven't been willing to sell the site. Maybe a new Board might consider it.

I know there are high interest rates, construction costs, etc, but that site would be sought after as much as any site in the peninsula. It will be a 1 minute walk to the Broadway subway, so developers will get $1500 per square foot as a condo development. Even with the challenges in the industry right now, for that site, i believe $300/buildable sq foot is realistic. 140 000 sq feet times 7.5 FSR (that's the FSR for the immediate area) is 1 050 000 buildable square feet x 300 = $315 000 000

What are your numbers, or are you just going with the assessed value of $112m?

[logan5]

Originally Posted by PBlonde

Of all the times to sell, now is not the time to do it. They should've capitalized on the ludicrously high land prices of 4/5 years ago. They're better off sitting on it for another 5 years to wait and see if land prices recover.
Either way, I wonder if a sale of the land to anyone other than Beedie would mean Beedie can keep the lease in full force and effect and force the new owner to wait until the lease expires while they keep paying low, low rents. If so, at an NOI of $1.65M that land is only worth $41M at a cap rate of 4%.

Imo.

There's such a large supply of density now that property values are not going to increase all that much for the foreseeable future. With a cap rate of only 4% (considering the value of the land), the VSB could make far more money selling that land, and investing that money somewhere else.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by logan5

I know there are high interest rates, construction costs, etc, but that site would be sought after as much as any site in the peninsula. It will be a 1 minute walk to the Broadway subway, so developers will get $1500 per square foot as a condo development. Even with the challenges in the industry right now, for that site, i believe $300/buildable sq foot is realistic. 140 000 sq feet times 7.5 FSR (that's the FSR for the immediate area) is 1 050 000 buildable square feet x 300 = $315 000 000

What are your numbers, or are you just going with the assessed value of $112m?

Broadway corridor sites have sold for between $116 and $196 psf buildable in the past four years. $300 is totally unrealistic, as is $1,500 psf for an average condo sales price here. Developers would be lucky to get an average of $1,200 for a condo building - that's what units in the Independent are trying to achieve. If a developer was planning a condo project they also have to provide a lot of social housing, built and given away, ar a big payment in lieu, which has to be covered by the sale price as well. It would be surprising if any developer would offer $200m, and the pool of potential purchasers at that price is pretty shallow.

[jollyburger]

Some more exterior/interior photos of Archetype

https://www.instagram.com/p/DVgov0CDeib/

[PBlonde]

Originally Posted by logan5

Imo.

There's such a large supply of density now that property values are not going to increase all that much for the foreseeable future. With a cap rate of only 4% (considering the value of the land), the VSB could make far more money selling that land, and investing that money somewhere else.

Selling into what is probably the weakest land market the lower mainland has seen in the last 20 years is not a good idea.

The 4% cap rate I was using was just as an example of what a buyer might pay for the property based on the lease with Beedie remaining in place ($1.65M / 4%), which gives a value of just north of $41M for the site. There's definitely greater development potential but if Beedie has the ability to keep the lease in place, no one else will buy that land.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by PBlonde

Selling into what is probably the weakest land market the lower mainland has seen in the last 20 years is not a good idea.

The 4% cap rate I was using was just as an example of what a buyer might pay for the property based on the lease with Beedie remaining in place ($1.65M / 4%), which gives a value of just north of $41M for the site. There's definitely greater development potential but if Beedie has the ability to keep the lease in place, no one else will buy that land.

Seems like Beedie would keep their lease if VSB managed to sell the land to someone.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Seems like Beedie would keep their lease if VSB managed to sell the land to someone.

Sounds like VSB made themselves a bad deal (and by extension bad for taxpayers).

[PBlonde]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Sounds like VSB made themselves a bad deal (and by extension bad for taxpayers).

I would assume that the deal would be improved if they allowed Beedie to rezone and redevelop the site. If that occurred, then I also assume they would be able to receive rent for the value of the redeveloped site which would greatly increase, which is good for the taxpayer.

[Glow Fun City]

5027-5053 Boundary Rd rezoning application

https://www.shapeyourcity.ca/5027-5053-boundary-rd

The City of Vancouver has received an application to rezone the subject site from CD-1 (241) (Comprehensive Development) District to CD-1 (Comprehensive Development) District. The proposal is to allow for the development of a 22-storey mixed-use residential building with a four-storey podium and includes:

• 216 social housing units;
• A private childcare centre;
• Commercial and retail use on the ground floor;
• A floor space ratio (FSR) of 7.98; and
• A building height of 70.1 m (230 ft.) with a rooftop amenity space.

Rendering credit: MorrisonPark / Formosis Architecture Inc.

[Lexus]

Wow! I did not expect that level of density in that section of Boundary Road! When I saw Boundary, I was sure it would be near Hastings.