[Saint John, NB] Lorneville | Spruce Lake Industrial Park Expansion | +1500 acres

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by paperplane

Sure seems like Mel is running for Mayor.

If he’s not running for mayor, he certainly seems to be ramping up for some sort of political run… perhaps another crack at the PC leadership?

Personally, I don’t know what to think of Mel Norton exactly. It’s from before I moved here, but I did visit SJ during his time as mayor, and based on what I’ve read he seemed to have been a decent mayor during a difficult time for the City of Saint John.

Moreover, Norton almost certainly would have been a better premier than Blaine Higgs had he won the PC leadership instead. Higgs was one of the most anti-Saint John premiers in the history of NB, despite living in the “Saint John Region” himself. Mel Norton, however, is actually from and lives in Saint John, and would have been the first premier from Saint John since the 1930s… and maybe he still will be?

As for his blog post in favour of this controversial proposal… it seemed pretty reasonable, but I wonder if he wrote it mostly by himself, or he had AI write it mostly for him?

That picture from the post seems to be something AI generated by himself and not something from Beacon AI or VoltaGrid.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

I’m beginning to think it’s time for a Point Lepreau Nuclear Generating Station thread given the fact that it’s the only nuclear power plant in Canada outside of Ontario, along with all the rumours of a second reactor being constructed in the near future.


Point Lepreau getting back up and running properly for the long term seems pretty vital to the viability of this data centre proposal.

It’s pretty bad that NB Power has once again missed their target to get the facility back online and supplying power to the grid, which has forced them to burn more oil at Coleson Cove. 🌊🏭💨

Perhaps the GNB should look at transferring Point Lepreau to Saint John Energy?

Saint John Energy has certainly proved itself to be a far more component electric utility than NB Power.

[irisheyes]

Honestly, I was never a fan of Mel Norton. He doesn't attempt to advocate to fix the structural issues coming from Fredericton that hinder Saint John. Further, we've seen our fire department cut down to the bone and a lot of that was under his watch. This in fact is something we need to address in apparatus, equipment and man power sooner rather than later. The city is too vulnerable— and the closure of the Millidgeville station is unacceptable.

I will concede that he is at least a champion for the city in terms of private sector investment. Perhaps having him as an MLA or the leader of the Tories and eventually premier would be better for the city than if he was mayor again if he was willing to tackle those taxation issues.

[DyAm00394]

The project listing for the new AI Data Centre is on the CCD Canada website. $47,850,000 is the project value.
https://www.ccdcanada.com/en/news/index

[bingun]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

The project listing for the new AI Data Centre is on the CCD Canada website. $47,850,000 is the project value.
https://www.ccdcanada.com/en/news/index

That's aggressive, good to see. I assume it's prep work? I know $2B is thrown around, but I'm not sure how it will be split between the building, the generators, and the hardware etc.

Some quotes from the Mayor -

https://tj.news/saint-john-south/in-qa-mayor-says-province-still-behind-on-homelessness

Let’s talk about the Spruce Lake Industrial Park expansion. Lorneville residents say they’ll keep fighting after council voted for park expansion last summer. How do you feel about that decision?

I see both sides of that coin. I understand that residents don’t want change, they want the use of the Crown land out there, and they have trails and a very idyllic lifestyle out there. But we need land for industrial parks, that’s the bottom line.

When we look around, and ask where we can go that has direct access to a highway and a road built for heavy trucks, where would we go that would already have industrial water, and that is just down the road from electricity generation – where would we go that would already have about $200 million in infrastructure there for us that we could just start to develop that land for an industrial park.

And is it an industrial park? Yes it is, but we’re also looking to have more of a business park, which is why we placed restrictions on it – you can’t have a concrete plant or an asphalt plant, or a metal crusher or shredder; there are about six or seven things that you cannot build out there, so it takes the heavy industrial out of it that people don’t want and puts in a data centre, or (facilities) that aren’t going to interrupt quality of life.

The first company to make a development pitch after council’s expansion vote was Beacon AI, who is proposing a data centre, most likely to service one of the major tech companies according to one of their own executives. Given that stories have come to light from around North America that data centres tend to use a lot of water and electricity, causing shortages and other issues in nearby neighbourhoods, are you comfortable with a data centre in Lorneville?

I would like to know what those liabilities would be, if there are any for the city and what they are. I know you can get a closed water system. I asked about the heat when we met with them, because I read that in Italy they’re heating homes from the data centres, and greenhouses, they have all that heat – in Italy they’re sending heat into all those homes, so I think there’s a lot of opportunities that can happen. And it’s not a metal shredder or an asphalt plant.

We said that we would be respectful of their situation out there, and we’d be respectful when looking at what we would put out there. Everyone has industry around them, the west side will have a 20-storey facility at the paper mill, the port is just down the street from my house, we had a raging fire here with AIM, everyone east has the oil refinery, we’re all living by heavy industry.

[paperplane]

Originally Posted by bingun

That's aggressive, good to see. I assume it's prep work? I know $2B is thrown around, but I'm not sure how it will be split between the building, the generators, and the hardware etc.

The $48M is an aggressive estimate?



And, the immediate question/quote from the mayor that preceded the Lorneville one was exactly indicative of her soundbites of hypocrisy RE: Wolastoq approaches and Lorneville approaches, made me laugh, she's a dolt.

But in the end, they weren’t able to use a property that was their own. They own the property and now they aren’t able to do what they want with it.

No, but they didn’t want to do it for five years, I guess. But that was their terms. We didn’t want to do that at all, but we said let’s do it for five years to try and mitigate this. But that’s fine. That park is a buffer zone between residents and industry – would you like to see industry in your backyard?

[bingun]

Originally Posted by paperplane

The $48M is an aggressive estimate?



And, the immediate question/quote from the mayor that preceded the Lorneville one was exactly indicative of her soundbites of hypocrisy RE: Wolastoq approaches and Lorneville approaches, made me laugh, she's a dolt.

Aggressive approach, given there is no public design or approval for the project yet. They want to be ready to go when that happens.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

I still think some mid rises, some with mixed use developments would make for a more effective buffer between the existing Lorneville community and the expanding industrial park… maybe they could even get one of the community care clinics that the Holt government has promised.


Yeah, I get the people of Lorneville don’t want to see anything go up anywhere in “their backyards”, but it’s still going to be a very beautiful place to live… and from six storeys up, those renters would have quite an amazing view of the city… and some significant residential developments in Lorneville could be the impetus for the entire Lorneville community to be connected to the city by transit, finally. I just gave a hard time wrapping my head around this community even being opposed to some 6 storeys apartments being built, when their community already hosts the two tallest freestanding structures in Atlantic Canada in the form of smokestacks for a power plant.


Moreover, would really like to see the companies involved in the data centre proposal, and other companies invoked with the industrial park step and and fund useful recreational developments in the buffer zone, and in the rest of the city of Saint John for that matter.

I think it’s time to stop clinging to false hopes of getting this proposal shot down, and start lobbying the companies involved to commit to substantial resident focussed investments into Saint John communities, especially into the community of Lorneville.

[paperplane]

Originally Posted by bingun

Aggressive approach, given there is no public design or approval for the project yet. They want to be ready to go when that happens.

Ahh, I see what you mean. Obviously construction insiders are watching that development pretty closely.

[CharlotteCountyLogan]

Lorenville would be opposed to mid-rise apartment buildings i have no doubt. They seem opposed to anything being built no matter how big or small.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by CharlotteCountyLogan

Lorenville would be opposed to mid-rise apartment buildings i have no doubt. They seem opposed to anything being built no matter how big or small.

Totally, but it’s ultimately not up to them, it’s up to the city council.

I think Lorneville could be quite a nice place to live in an apartment with views of the Bay of Fundy and a short drive (or bus ride) into the city. 🌊 🛣️ 🏙️


Townhouses would be the more realistic option, but there’s obviously lots of room out there for many different types of developments. Lorneville is even closer to Saint John than many parts of Rothesay and Quispamsis. I guess lack of water and sewage infrastructure is one of the major impediments to development in Lorneville, but it’s not like there’s no solutions for those issues.

I’d just really like to see the West Side grow the population by any means necessary… so us city residents in the SJ-SC riding have a fairer chance at influencing the electoral outcome for who becomes our MP… and make up for decades of eastward focused developments here in the Saint John Region.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by paperplane

The $48M is an aggressive estimate?



And, the immediate question/quote from the mayor that preceded the Lorneville one was exactly indicative of her soundbites of hypocrisy RE: Wolastoq approaches and Lorneville approaches, made me laugh, she's a dolt.

That question was ridiculous for them to ask in that way, it is leading and misrepresenting the reality of property ownership. You don't get to just do whatever you want on property simply because you own it, that's not the system we operate within.

[paperplane]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

That question was ridiculous for them to ask in that way, it is leading and misrepresenting the reality of property ownership. You don't get to just do whatever you want on property simply because you own it, that's not the system we operate within.

Haha fair point.

It'd be interesting if the exact flow of conversation with TJ and DR was set-up with Wolastoq and Lorneville back to back as that leading/misrepresenting approach to get that result; either way, expecting more from TJ is a point of diminishing returns.

[bingun]

I was driving behind a city bus today, and they have an advertisement on the rear saying there could be 1200 jobs for Saint John. I didn't see it explicitly say "data centre," but there is a BeaconAI and Voltagrid logo on the ad.

First time I have noticed this, I wonder how long this has been up? Classic public relations move, but interesting nonetheless.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

I was driving behind a city bus today, and they have an advertisement on the rear saying there could be 1200 jobs for Saint John. I didn't see it explicitly say "data centre," but there is a BeaconAI and Voltagrid logo on the ad.

First time I have noticed this, I wonder how long this has been up? Classic public relations move, but interesting nonetheless.

Haven’t seen that one yet… I’ll be sure to keep my eyes peeled for it.


I did notice an interesting post on FB the other day, however, by realtor Bob McVicar. Basically he said candidates for council and mayor should stop giving non answers on the Lorneville Industrial Park expansion and have the courage to say they support it (and if they don’t know enough to give a yes or no answer on it then they shouldn’t be running for council in the first place)

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Haven’t seen that one yet… I’ll be sure to keep my eyes peeled for it.


I did notice an interesting post on FB the other day, however, by realtor Bob McVicar. Basically he said candidates for council and mayor should stop giving non answers on the Lorneville Industrial Park expansion and have the courage to say they support it (and if they don’t know enough to give a yes or no answer on it then they shouldn’t be running for council in the first place)

I agree with Bob. 100%.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Haven’t seen that one yet… I’ll be sure to keep my eyes peeled for it.


I did notice an interesting post on FB the other day, however, by realtor Bob McVicar. Basically he said candidates for council and mayor should stop giving non answers on the Lorneville Industrial Park expansion and have the courage to say they support it (and if they don’t know enough to give a yes or no answer on it then they shouldn’t be running for council in the first place)

Yes, I saw this also, and I agree with him. It is clear that some are avoiding the question.

I don't think it's a big issue for most residents, but it will play a part in the ward that includes Lorneville. Who is running in that one again?

[bingun]

Found another ad. This is on Chelsey Drive, across the street from Ocean Steel.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

Yes, I saw this also, and I agree with him. It is clear that some are avoiding the question.

I don't think it's a big issue for most residents, but it will play a part in the ward that includes Lorneville. Who is running in that one again?

Greg Norton is running again for sure… I wonder if Blake Armstrong will try and get his old seat back?


Feigning outrage about the AI data centre could be an effective strategy to shore up the entire Lorneville vote, which in a very fragmented race, could end up being enough to get second place (and a seat on council).

However, we’re likely going to see multiple West Saint John candidates who oppose the data centre, not just a single candidate sweeping up the vote. Still, wouldn’t surprised me to see the head of the Save Lorneville movement sweep up a lot of the votes in Lorneville and get on council as a nearly single issue candidate.

[Helladog]

Even as a pro development, tech minded person, I have reservations about this data centre. It seems most places where these go up, the population has to subsidize the electricity (bills go up) and there is plenty of noise pollution. I'm sure they'll only use the gas generator when it suits them, not all the time. But regardless, the province is starting to enter into a period of potential energy deficit, where there isn't much extra to spare.

How much do we expect this to bolster the economy after the construction "boom" is finished? I'm open-minded, so I encourage opposing points of view.

Will this development diversify the SJ economy? Is this just another version of the call centre era, where government subsidizes projects where income was low, and the province was desperate for any jobs they could announce?