Winnipeg Jets

[pspeid]

I think the Hellebuyck/White House thing will fade with the Jets season, and right now I think there are some positives with seeing the team out of the payoffs.

I'm not suggesting they tank, I'm kind of hoping that play hard and end up out of the playoffs. IMO getting maximum effort and still finding no success is the best way to identify the pieces of the team that need to be moved out. Get a high, perhaps even # 1, draft pick. Let the guys on the Moose know several of them will have a good chance to make the team next year.

Working on a good trade will be difficult, but I think there's probably a few players that we could part with that might have some value to other teams. Is suggesting Cole Perfetti be moved a sacrieige?

The fans will need to suck it up and realize there isn't going to be a "whiteout" this year and that's okay. Go to the games for entertainment value, support the team, and don't take it personally that we miss the playoffs for this year.

[neutroniks]

Me and my buddies are all of the same wavelength. Play hard and identify the weak points of the chain, mix up lines to see what sticks and what doesn't, but ultimately "Tank". Because making the playoffs and getting bounced gets us no where. I'd rather us not make the playoffs and re-tool for next year, rather than risk injury to any of our core guys, and have to hear it from other fans about getting bounced in the first round. The Leafs can continue to be 1st Rounders for the foreseeable future lol.

I personally like Perfetti and hoping he plays to his potential, but patience of course is starting to get thin. He has flashes of brilliance and just need him to be more consistent.

[Sheepish]

Well stated SPEID.
Enough of the hand wringing about what Bucky should or should not have done. Personally I think it is ludicrous to give a medal like that to an athlete, and particularly in a team sport. But how can you really say no? The main thing is, he is our goalie!
Turning to the Jets (which is what the thread is about) the Coach said something very telling the other day. Asked about the difference between last year and this year, his response was 'personnel'. There were three losses of note from the regular roster - Fly, Appleton and Dillon. Two of them were known for speed, and the third for his grit. Fly could change a game on a dime. There is no one on this team that plays that role now. They are mostly slow and lack creativity and puck control. But still, mostly the same lineup in the core, with the addition of some senior citizens. It seems that the coach takes NO responsibility for what is going on. And at the same time seems to be blaming Chevy for giving him a subpar lineup.
And much was made of Fleury being weak on the OT goal Sunday. What about Captain Lowry - that was truly embarrassing. It really says something about your lineup when Adam Lowry is out there in OT.
That said, unless something remarkable happens this week, there will be no joy in Jet's land this spring. So let's see what the youngens have got to offer and enjoy watching the future.

[optimusREIM]

I think truly the big issue for the Jets is that we let some big speed players go and replaced them with aging (if skilled) players. Realistically, we need faster offensive players. Would love to see the team move on from some of the older guys, keep Toews as a dressing room glue guy and to win big faceoffs. Let the kids play, Salomonsson is ready for the bigs.

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by neutroniks

Yeah, it's just also situational awareness of where you live & work. Esp with the past 51st state rhetoric, and just the optics with all the allegations. He can say he did it to 'Receive the Medal of Freedom' but is that medal really worth putting aside your moral compass? Their kids might not be old enough, but I imagine if they were teenagers, or in University, they'd be hearing about it a lot from their more informed classmates.

Brady got caught stumbling when a reporter called him out "why did you laugh then". It was great seeing him being held accountable.

At this point I think it's a lot less about the "51st state" stuff and a lot more about the allegations related to being longtime best friends with a horrific sex trafficker. One of those can, for now, still be played off as typical Trump nonsense, the other one is pretty damn hard to defend. They wouldn't accept an invite from Epstein himself if he were still around, but no problem shaking hands with the guy who was his best friend for 20 years and almost certainly did illegal and depraved things on that island?

I don't totally blame it on the players though. These are jocks, I don't think these guys follow the issues enough to understand the context, they think it's just typical partisan politics stuff. The only reason they ended up in that awkward situation in the first place is because congress is unwilling to do anything about an alleged sex criminal sitting in the White House. Other countries are opening investigations, while in the US no one with the power to do anything seems remotely interested in holding him accountable. The focus should probably be on those people and not a bunch of dumb hockey players.

[BlackDog204]

Why is it that the Jets drafted so well in 2011-15, our first 5 years, but have been abysmal at the draft for 10 years now? Did the team not make it their mandate to "draft and develop?" As it stands, we look more like the Jets of June 1, 2011, who inherited Atlanta's horrible drafting history.

let's look back at the last 10 years:

2016: Laine (#2). In retrospect, with the exception of his first two years, he has been a disappointment

Stanley (#18) 3rd pairing defensemen.

2017: Vesalainen (#24). Showed promise his first year after the draft, but was a bust

Samberg (#43). Perhaps our best non First round pick in the past decade

2018: (#60 Gustafsson). Bottom pairing forward.

2019: (#20 Heinola). Age 25 and has not made the Jets full time roster

2020: (#10 Perfetti). A lot of potential, but has not had a breakout season.

2021: (#18 Lucius). Forced to retire due to medical condition.

2022: (#14 McGroarty). refused to play in Winnipeg, traded. Yager not having a good year.

Lambert (#30). Has potential, but is far from making the Jets lineup.

2023: Barlow (#18). Bust.

We are in big trouble, as out prospects are not good.

[Biff]

The answer to your question about better drafting before 2016 is the fact that the Jets had better draft spots - were a worse team.

2011 - Scheifele (7) Lowry (67)
2012 - Trouba (9) Hellebuyck (130)
2013 - Morrissey (13) Copp (104)
2014 - Ehlers (9)
2015 - Conner (17) Roslovic (25) Appleton (168)

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

Why is it that the Jets drafted so well in 2011-15, our first 5 years, but have been abysmal at the draft for 10 years now? Did the team not make it their mandate to "draft and develop?" As it stands, we look more like the Jets of June 1, 2011, who inherited Atlanta's horrible drafting history.

let's look back at the last 10 years:

2016: Laine (#2). In retrospect, with the exception of his first two years, he has been a disappointment

Stanley (#18) 3rd pairing defensemen.

2017: Vesalainen (#24). Showed promise his first year after the draft, but was a bust

Samberg (#43). Perhaps our best non First round pick in the past decade

2018: (#60 Gustafsson). Bottom pairing forward.

2019: (#20 Heinola). Age 25 and has not made the Jets full time roster

2020: (#10 Perfetti). A lot of potential, but has not had a breakout season.

2021: (#18 Lucius). Forced to retire due to medical condition.

2022: (#14 McGroarty). refused to play in Winnipeg, traded. Yager not having a good year.

Lambert (#30). Has potential, but is far from making the Jets lineup.

2023: Barlow (#18). Bust.

We are in big trouble, as out prospects are not good.

Not only that, we also fired our scouting team a while ago, as I recently found out. Not exactly sure for what reason.

Our latest draft picks has shown that with the quality of our draft picks. Maybe some of our picks are truly busts, or maybe the scouts the Jets had were that bad, hence why they're fired.

If it were up to me, I'd start trading away and shut down our dismal season. Let the kids play by giving them ice time from now until the end of the season.

We can re-tool one last time going into the next season with our core players. If that doesn't work out and we are at the same situation like we are now next season, it's time to rebuild the entire team and give those players a chance to win the cup.

[neutroniks]

Originally Posted by Biff

The answer to your question about better drafting before 2016 is the fact that the Jets had better draft spots - were a worse team.

2011 - Scheifele (7) Lowry (67)
2012 - Trouba (9) Hellebuyck (130)
2013 - Morrissey (13) Copp (104)
2014 - Ehlers (9)
2015 - Conner (17) Roslovic (25) Appleton (168)

Hellebuyck going 130 and being a 2x Vezina winner is some Tom Brady type shit... (only if he gets 7 rings lol)

[neutroniks]

Originally Posted by The Jabroni

Not only that, we also fired our scouting team a while ago, as I recently found out. Not exactly sure for what reason.

Our latest draft picks has shown that with the quality of our draft picks. Maybe some of our picks are truly busts, or maybe the scouts the Jets had were that bad, hence why they're fired.

If it were up to me, I'd start trading away and shut down our dismal season. Let the kids play by giving them ice time from now until the end of the season.

We can re-tool one last time going into the next season with our core players. If that doesn't work out and we are at the same situation like we are now next season, it's time to rebuild the entire team and give those players a chance to win the cup.

Agreed. Need to re-tool for the next season. I think the reason sometimes the top brass always pushes for the playoffs is because of the margins we get in such a small market. It wasn't that long ago we were constantly talking about game attendance and season ticket sales despite being good. I'm sure management is scared that if we commit to a full blown re-build, again will the articles emerge of low game attendance and b.s. side articles that come with it for click bait.

[CoryB]

Hellebuyck being a later round draft pick is not surprising. Very few goalies ever get drafted in the first round. From the stories that go around the Jets scouts went to the game where they first say Hellebuyck to actually look at another goalie.

Also there were other goalie prospects in the Jets system that were supposed to be the next starting goalie but their development didn't progress and Hellebuyck did.

Drafting a Vezina goalie is a lot like managing to draft a generational forward, a lot of luck goes into being in the right place to make both those happen.

[Mr Tall Forehead]

Originally Posted by The Jabroni

Not only that, we also fired our scouting team a while ago, as I recently found out. Not exactly sure for what reason.

Our latest draft picks has shown that with the quality of our draft picks. Maybe some of our picks are truly busts, or maybe the scouts the Jets had were that bad, hence why they're fired.

If it were up to me, I'd start trading away and shut down our dismal season. Let the kids play by giving them ice time from now until the end of the season.

We can re-tool one last time going into the next season with our core players. If that doesn't work out and we are at the same situation like we are now next season, it's time to rebuild the entire team and give those players a chance to win the cup.

The Jets never fired their scouting staff. A lot of the earlier successful picks (especially the US players) were made when Marcel Comeau was head of the scouting staff, but he retired in 2019.

As Biff noted, I think the earlier draft success had a lot to do with the team having earlier draft picks.

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by neutroniks

Agreed. Need to re-tool for the next season. I think the reason sometimes the top brass always pushes for the playoffs is because of the margins we get in such a small market. It wasn't that long ago we were constantly talking about game attendance and season ticket sales despite being good. I'm sure management is scared that if we commit to a full blown re-build, again will the articles emerge of low game attendance and b.s. side articles that come with it for click bait.

I was curious, so I asked co-pilot to give me an analysis of the picks the Jets made and how many "misses" they had from 2018- present time.

There were quite a few picks they could have snagged that are very well established in the league now. For example, in 2019 we drafted Heinola- we could have drafted Connor McMichael. 2020 is the year we drafted Perfetti, but Seth Jarvis and Lundell were both lower picks that year. Both big misses in my opinion. 2021- we drafted Chaz Lucius; could have taken Wyatt Johnston. 2017 was a particularly frustrating draft because we traded away the pick to Vegas that would have landed us Nick Suzuki and we ended up with Vesalainen and the next pick after him was Ryan Poehling- a starter in Philadelphia.

2022 was the year we drafted McGroarty and interestingly enough, none of the 5 picks that came after him have broken through.

I think this just solidifies to me that even though we have drafted in lower numbers over the past 5 years, we have missed some really golden opportunities.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Jammon

I was curious, so I asked co-pilot to give me an analysis of the picks the Jets made and how many "misses" they had from 2018- present time.

There were quite a few picks they could have snagged that are very well established in the league now. For example, in 2019 we drafted Heinola- we could have drafted Connor McMichael. 2020 is the year we drafted Perfetti, but Seth Jarvis and Lundell were both lower picks that year. Both big misses in my opinion. 2021- we drafted Chaz Lucius; could have taken Wyatt Johnston. 2017 was a particularly frustrating draft because we traded away the pick to Vegas that would have landed us Nick Suzuki and we ended up with Vesalainen and the next pick after him was Ryan Poehling- a starter in Philadelphia.

2022 was the year we drafted McGroarty and interestingly enough, none of the 5 picks that came after him have broken through.

I think this just solidifies to me that even though we have drafted in lower numbers over the past 5 years, we have missed some really golden opportunities.

Right, remind the scouting staff to bust out the crystal ball going forward. The Jets drafted players they thought were going to be good. All of which have shown promise at various points. It is a very normal part of drafting talent that you will often miss. Unless you draft 1st overall (even that's not a lock as we know), you basically aren't guaranteed anything.

Tough to swallow reality, but here we are.

[bomberjet]

3x vezina AND a hart trophy winner!

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Right, remind the scouting staff to bust out the crystal ball going forward. The Jets drafted players they thought were going to be good. All of which have shown promise at various points. It is a very normal part of drafting talent that you will often miss. Unless you draft 1st overall (even that's not a lock as we know), you basically aren't guaranteed anything.

Tough to swallow reality, but here we are.

Of course. BUT, the major criticism of this team is that we lack prospect depth and our young guys just aren't showing the promise that they saw earlier in their careers. So, you can basically explain the faults in one of two ways: 1) our scouts are really bad at finding talent and mis-read abilities and talents or 2) we don't allow them to develop into NHL talents when they give little to no opportunity to play at the NHL.

Take your pick- but either criticism points our current issues straight at Jets management.

[bomberjet]

Jets have lack of top end prospects. The second level prospects are there.

This is what happens when you are making playoff runs. So now would be the time to tank and get a top end draft pick this season!! Like NYR are. But the Jets are in a must win mode and looks like that is not abating anytime soon.

[pspeid]

The trade:
Luke Schenn and Logan Stanley were dealt to the Buffalo Sabres for defenceman Jacob Bryson, forward Isak Rosen, a conditional fourth-round pick in the 2026 NHL Draft and a second-round selection next year.

Any thoughts?

[bomberjet]

Jets trade Stanley and Schenn.

My kid has been in a lot of Jets videos over the last couple years lmao. I guess that'll be it for the Stanley content.
https://x.com/NHLJets/status/2029928261472674215

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by pspeid

The trade:
Luke Schenn and Logan Stanley were dealt to the Buffalo Sabres for defenceman Jacob Bryson, forward Isak Rosen, a conditional fourth-round pick in the 2026 NHL Draft and a second-round selection next year.

Any thoughts?

Decent. We'll see if this Rosen kid is any good. Otherwise it's about as expected. Instead of a first, they got a first round drafted prospect.