California High Speed Rail Thread

[electricron]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Also, for some $ perspective, the boy wonder Mark Zuckerberg has torched $73 billion on the Metaverse, many times more than has been spent to date on CAHSR:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/meta-platforms-lost-73-billion-165823364.html

Zuckerberg has torched his own money, or others money on Metaverse, hoping to turn a profit on it. He has not spent that I am aware of one cent in government money created with taxes.
Unlike CHSR, which has spent every penny using government money generated from taxes.

[moorhosj1]

Originally Posted by electricron

Zuckerberg has torched his own money, or others money on Metaverse, hoping to turn a profit on it. He has not spent that I am aware of one cent in government money created with taxes.
Unlike CHSR, which has spent every penny using government money generated from taxes.

I think the point was about the scale of investment, nobody bats an eye at Meta lighting $75 billion on fire for no return, but CHSR, which will provide actual benefit to people, is constantly scrutinized.

That said, Meta has received over $2.2 billion in government subsidies.

According to the Good Jobs First Subsidy Tracker, Meta has been associated with over $2.26 billion in state and local subsidies, tax breaks, and incentives, largely for construction of data centers, with major awards in Texas, Georgia, Nebraska, and Oregon.

They also just entered into the government contract grift and their AI is now deployed across government workers.

[sopas ej]

From the Desert Sun:

California high-speed rail Yosemite stop proposed. Here's what to know

James Ward
Palm Springs Desert Sun
Feb. 5, 2026, 11:07 a.m. PT

California’s high‑speed rail project reached a major construction milestone this week with the completion of the Southern Railhead Facility in Kern County — but the development comes as a proposal to relocate the Merced station to the city’s outskirts and rebrand it as a “Merced–Yosemite” gateway, linking the bullet train directly to one of America’s most visited national parks, draws attention.

Governor Gavin Newsom, who visited the Wasco-area site to celebrate the new railhead on Feb. 3, framed the project’s progress as proof that California can still deliver infrastructure projects. But political attention has increasingly shifted to the possibility that Merced could become the primary high-speed rail jumping-off point for Yosemite National Park.

The newly floated station shift would move the stop four miles southeast of downtown Merced to a location with direct access to Highway 140. Critics warn it risks weakening downtown Merced and undermining transit efficiency.

[...]

[Busy Bee]

I feel like maybe there's a solution here.

Perhaps for the IOS they could move the station to this area further south, but still intend to construct a downtown Merced station as part of Phase 2 to Sacramento. In a hypothetical fully operational system, fewer designated trains travelling SF-Sacramento and Sacramento-LA would stop at the what would then become a Yosemite Gateway station, perhaps every 90 minutes or so, and coordinated with a beefed up connecting bus service to the park. All other trains would bypass the station on center passing tracks. Win-win.

[202_Cyclist]

CA High-Speed Rail Authority Southern Railhead Facility in Kern County completed

February 3, 2026

"BAKERSFIELD, Calif. (KBAK/KBFX) — Governor Gavin Newsom announced a milestone for California’s high-speed rail project with the completion of the southern railhead facility in Kern County.

The celebration included California High-Speed Rail Authority CEO Ian Choudri, state and local officials, labor partners, and construction workers.

The 150-acre facility near Wasco will serve as a central logistics hub for receiving, storing, and deploying materials needed to electrify and operate the rail system..."

https://bakersfieldnow.com/news/local/ca...lity-in-kern-county-completed-california

[Crawford]

I don't like the Yosemite idea. Again, more weird mission creep.

This was supposed to be a fast train to get people from the Bay Area to the LA area. It wasn't an development program for the Central Valley, it wasn't an economic justice vehicle, and it sure as hell isn't a natural parks train. And Merced isn't exactly at the entrance to Yosemite. Just build the f--king train.

[craigs]

I agree there should not be a specific stop just for Yosemite. Whatever buses they intended to run out of that station can be run out of the transit center in downtown Merced.

I disagree that CAHSR was never intended to provide the Central Valley with an economic leg up.

[patriotizzy]

Originally Posted by Crawford

This was supposed to be a fast train to get people from the Bay Area to the LA area. It wasn't an development program for the Central Valley, it wasn't an economic justice vehicle, and it sure as hell isn't a natural parks train.

This is from 2013:

https://es.mtc.ca.gov/sites/default/file...20of%20High-Speed%20Rail.pdf?cb=2a6007b7

“High-speed rail offers an opportunity to transform the future of California’s Central Valley by connecting it to major urban centers, revitalizing city cores, and reducing suburban sprawl’s encroachment on agriculture.“
- Dan Richard,
Board Chairman,
California High-Speed Rail Authority

"Over the past 10 years, the Central Valley has been the fastest growing region in the state, with its population increasing by 17 percent compared to 10 percent statewide. Moody’s Analytics predicts that by 2040, there will be close to 10 million people living in the Central Valley, an additional three million more people than live there today."

The sad part is this section:
"The Initial Operating Section (IOS) of high-speed rail, the beginning of Phase 1 of the overall system, will connect Merced to the San Fernando Valley gateway to Los Angeles. It will be approximately 300 miles and service will start in 2022."

[Busy Bee]

Pretty nervy for someone who clearly supports the politics and "leaders" who have repeatedly stood in the way, attempted to sabotage and starve this project of funding to be complaining about the IOS not being finished yet.

Classic "break the thing to prove it's broken" conservative tactic.

[HusBy]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Pretty nervy for someone who clearly supports the politics and "leaders" who have repeatedly stood in the way, attempted to sabotage and starve this project of funding to be complaining about the IOS not being finished yet.

Classic "break the thing to prove it's broken" conservative tactic.

They are sad and so predictable, no vision, no care for anyone but themselves. The postal service, public education, public transit... they won't rest until they've broken it all.

And yet, against all that, CA high speed rail keeps chugging along. They cause the pace to be horrendously slow but the progress is remarkable given the conditions.

[edale]

Originally Posted by HusBy

And yet, against all that, CA high speed rail keeps chugging along. They cause the pace to be horrendously slow but the progress is remarkable given the conditions.

The progress is remarkable!? It has been 18 years since CAHSR was approved, and in excess of $15 billion has been spent on the project. What do we have to show for that time and money? Not even a mile of track laid yet. Initial operating segment is now between two small towns in the Central Valley, with no real plan or funding to actually reach LA and the Bay Area. You think that’s remarkable?

I want CAHSR to be successful so bad. I’d use it all the time and I want it to be a success so as to inspire more HSR investment in the US. The fact is, it’s been incredibly mismanaged, bogged down by insane CEQA BS, costs are rising dramatically, the selected route is proving to be a disaster. It’s basically a lesson in what NOT to do when building HSR at this point.

[curt-pdx]

An annual shout out to JASON DRONING AROUND https://www.youtube.com/@jasondroninaround/videos!

His most recent compiled full CP1-3 flyover:

• Video Link


I can see why someone might say "not a single mile of track"! One could argue that all the money spent so far has been projects to accommodate private vehicle travel, not the actual train.

And surely building a 119 mile project is not super complicated. It's not like they had to acquire 2295 individual parcels of land. Or that even the minimum 51.5 ft right of way would amount to 742.8 acres. Last time I built a 742 acre project, I was done in like one or two years tops. Why is this boondoggle taking so long? I have unlimited money, it's not like I've been given inconsistent sofa-money leftovers for a decade instead of funding that allows you to plan your project sequencing. It surely can't be THAT hard to get utilities and railroads to do their part (with your money) to relocate a power pole or an irrigation ditch or their mainline track. It's not like a billionaire would propose sucking people through a tube at 700mph in an effort to derail the whole project.

You can either repeat conservative talking points or you can try to find out what is actually being accomplished. Be better.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by curt-pdx

You can either repeat conservative talking points or you can try to find out what is actually being accomplished. Be better.

There's a third option - support CAHSR while acknowledging it has been pretty rough sledding so far, and the pace/money spent/initial payoff are disappointing.

[patriotizzy]

Originally Posted by Crawford

There's a third option - support CAHSR while acknowledging it has been pretty rough sledding so far, and the pace/money spent/initial payoff are disappointing.

Calling a spade a spade can get some emotionally irrational responses out of some people. I've wanted CAHSR since inception, and my desire still stands.

Funny how, despite political leanings, there are nuances in people's perceptions. Who would have thought?

[craigs]

Originally Posted by patriotizzy

Funny how, despite political leanings, there are nuances in people's perceptions. Who would have thought?

This thread isn't about politics.

[202_Cyclist]

High-Speed Rail board OKs up to $537M increase for Central Valley, Fresno-area construction

By Erik Galicia
February 21, 2026
Fresno Bee

"The California High-Speed Rail Authority has authorized a settlement in a contract dispute that could send another $537.3 million to the company that’s building out 65 miles of the train system in the Central Valley.

The agency’s board announced at its last meeting that it voted 7-0 in closed session to allow CEO Ian Choudri to negotiate and finalize an “appropriate settlement change order” of up to $537.3 million with Dragados Flatiron Joint Venture.

Change orders deal with work that is added or removed from an original contract and can change a contract’s cost and a project’s completion date. They can also be especially common in large construction projects, the rail authority says on its website."

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/high-speed-rail/article314777709.html

[edale]

Originally Posted by curt-pdx

I can see why someone might say "not a single mile of track"! One could argue that all the money spent so far has been projects to accommodate private vehicle travel, not the actual train.

And surely building a 119 mile project is not super complicated. It's not like they had to acquire 2295 individual parcels of land. Or that even the minimum 51.5 ft right of way would amount to 742.8 acres. Last time I built a 742 acre project, I was done in like one or two years tops. Why is this boondoggle taking so long? I have unlimited money, it's not like I've been given inconsistent sofa-money leftovers for a decade instead of funding that allows you to plan your project sequencing. It surely can't be THAT hard to get utilities and railroads to do their part (with your money) to relocate a power pole or an irrigation ditch or their mainline track. It's not like a billionaire would propose sucking people through a tube at 700mph in an effort to derail the whole project.

You can either repeat conservative talking points or you can try to find out what is actually being accomplished. Be better.

Oh please. $15+ billion is not 'sofa-money leftovers'. The entire D Line subway extension under Wilshire Blvd in LA cost $10 billion.

CAHSR had to acquire 2295 individual parcels because they didn't go with a sensible route following the existing I-5 ROW, which would have made land aquisition much faster and cheaper, and resulted in far fewer grade separation and utility relocation projects.

In 2028, it will have been 20 years since the project was approved, and by then close to $20 billion will have been spent. And at that time (if current schedules hold), we'll still be 4 years off from an opening date with service going from...Madera (population 69,000) to Wasco (population 27,000). 119 miles between two small cities no one cares to go to. Great.

And work began in the Central Valley because it's the *easy* part of the route. If this is the easy part, how long should we expect the difficult parts to take? We're talking about 60 miles of tunnels through the mountains just to get to the edge of the LA area. Do you have any confidence this will ever get done in our lifetimes?

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by edale

CAHSR had to acquire 2295 individual parcels because they didn't go with a sensible route following the existing I-5 ROW, which would have made land aquisition much faster and cheaper, and resulted in far fewer grade separation and utility relocation projects.

You mean the route that doesn't serve the entirety of what's between LA and SF? No country on planet earth would voluntarily bypass multiple population centers to make a route cheaper, straighter or faster. And this vague concept that somehow CV cities could maybe possibly one day build connections to the I-5 route is total fantasy. No one would plan a HSR system like that, and thankfully CHSRA did not.

Do you have any confidence this will ever get done in our lifetimes?

I guess it depends on how old you are. And of course how unselfishly willing you are to recognize that great efforts sometimes are only enjoyed by the following generations. Rome wasn't built in a day.

“Blessed is he who plants trees under whose shade they will never sit”

[HusBy]

Originally Posted by edale

Oh please. $15+ billion is not 'sofa-money leftovers'. The entire D Line subway extension under Wilshire Blvd in LA cost $10 billion.

CAHSR had to acquire 2295 individual parcels because they didn't go with a sensible route following the existing I-5 ROW, which would have made land aquisition much faster and cheaper, and resulted in far fewer grade separation and utility relocation projects.

In 2028, it will have been 20 years since the project was approved, and by then close to $20 billion will have been spent. And at that time (if current schedules hold), we'll still be 4 years off from an opening date with service going from...Madera (population 69,000) to Wasco (population 27,000). 119 miles between two small cities no one cares to go to. Great.

And work began in the Central Valley because it's the *easy* part of the route. If this is the easy part, how long should we expect the difficult parts to take? We're talking about 60 miles of tunnels through the mountains just to get to the edge of the LA area. Do you have any confidence this will ever get done in our lifetimes?

The I-5 route is absolutely not sensible. It still would have major hurdles acquiring the land, would have added topography to contend with, and wouldn't serve anyone except for the metros at the end. Following the 99 corridor (with over 2.3 million people along it) ties the entire state together in a way it never has been before.

And you conveniently left out Fresno in your population calc. The population of the areas served by the IOS is more like 1.25 million people (Fresno metro, Hanford, Wasco). But that's besides the point anyway, because it's just a fucking starting point, it's not supposed to be useful in itself.

Yes the project has been poorly managed, but the political, funding, and legal issues it has faced have always been the biggest hurdles and continue to be. That doesn't make it not worth continuing.

[HusBy]

Originally Posted by edale

The progress is remarkable!? It has been 18 years since CAHSR was approved, and in excess of $15 billion has been spent on the project. What do we have to show for that time and money? Not even a mile of track laid yet. Initial operating segment is now between two small towns in the Central Valley, with no real plan or funding to actually reach LA and the Bay Area. You think that’s remarkable?

I want CAHSR to be successful so bad. I’d use it all the time and I want it to be a success so as to inspire more HSR investment in the US. The fact is, it’s been incredibly mismanaged, bogged down by insane CEQA BS, costs are rising dramatically, the selected route is proving to be a disaster. It’s basically a lesson in what NOT to do when building HSR at this point.

I'm saying it's remarkable they've managed to do anything at all.