[Dartmouth] M District FGN (21 Mic Mac Blvd) | ? m | ^40 Floors | Approved

[Keith P.]

The Sears story is sad. They actually had e-commerce and I seem to recall that it worked reasonably well. The same is true for The Bay, for that matter, having used both to shop online years ago. Certainly the market potential was greater for Sears given their product line spread. When Eddie Lampert took control of Sears he fired a bunch of people and proceeded to bleed it dry. Both chains were saddled with legacy real estate and store leases that were no longer able to generate enough revenue to support such infrastructure. The Bay tried to go upmarket with a fashion/designer focus which I supposed promised higher margins but volumes would be limited. Back when I had to wear suits at work I often bought them at The Bay. I also bought electronics, appliances and furniture at both years ago but the last time I was in, The Bay had very little in the way of hard goods. The days of department stores with multiple product lines seem pretty much over.

[q12]

It will interesting to see how the redevelopment design might change depending on what happens to the Bay.

You would think grocery might want to return (IGA used to be at MMM) to this spot with all the residential planned.

Maybe T&T Supermarket that said it's looking to expand to Halifax.




https://www.saltwire.com/atlantic-canada...00-units-to-mic-mac-mall-lands-100805147


https://www.saltwire.com/atlantic-canada...00-units-to-mic-mac-mall-lands-100805147

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by q12

It will interesting to see how the redevelopment design might change depending on what happens to the Bay.

You would think grocery might want to return (IGA used to be at MMM) to this spot with all the residential planned.

The original supermarket space used to be a Dominion store. That flipped to IGA when they pulled out of this market and Fast Freddy MacGillivray was running IGA in this region. I don't know if any IGAs remain in the area.

Those schematics don't appear to have much parking. I see one reference to underground parking but presume they would need much more given that they want to maintain the mall plus what they want to add in the way of residential.

[Dmajackson]

First reading is this week at Regional Council.

Case 24469 Staff Report

It appears to line up with the renderings posted above. The main two changes I see are;

1) The 14-storey office building in Phase I can become a 30-storey residential tower.

2) HRM is purchasing the bus terminal lands. They are planning to redesign the terminal in the short-term.

[MastClimberPro]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

First reading is this week at Regional Council.

Case 24469 Staff Report

It appears to line up with the renderings posted above. The main two changes I see are;

1) The 14-storey office building in Phase I can become a 30-storey residential tower.

2) HRM is purchasing the bus terminal lands. They are planning to redesign the terminal in the short-term.

404 Error on the link.

[Dmajackson]

^That's due to the everchanging URL's that HRM uses for it's council agenda items now.

This was approved to proceed to a public hearing. I'll post a fresh link when that gets scheduled.

[Keith P.]

Well, this mega-proposal went through Council yesterday like s**t through a goose. The Herald has a good piece on it today. Of course Slick Sam Austin is all for it, being the Soviet-style type of development he prefers. Another good Jen Taplin story:





https://www.saltwire.com/nova-scotia/halifax/company-circling

Thousands of people moving into towers reaching 40 storeys high is just too much strain on the neighbourhood, argue Dartmouth residents.

“The scale of this project is just straight-up greedy,” said Shane Gushue at a public hearing on the development at Halifax regional council Tuesday night.

Councillors voted to approve bylaw and planning changes to allow this scale of development, as well as a development agreement with one of two developers who have grand plans for the Mic Mac Mall site called M District.

Doug Rose, who lives one block west of the development, said even now road access to his neighbourhood is inadequate.

“I think developing this site is a good thing to do, there’s a lot of wasted space. However, I think this project is too large for the environment it’s meant to fit into,” he said.

“I think rather than calling this Project M, we should call it Project Colossus because it’s too big.”

M District will culminate in around 3,800 units between two developers but may eventually support up to 4,600 units on the 24-hectare area.

There are plans for residential towers from seven to 40 storeys tall, a $5.8-million transit terminal, a new road, a multi-use path and more.

Cesar Saleh, with WM Fares Group, speaking on behalf of the numbered company, said their proposal will transform an aging, 49-acre retail site into a complete urban community.

“This is precisely the type of underutilized land the future growth node framework was created to intensify,” he told council Tuesday.

He said it will be done in structured phases, starting with upgrades to the mall, a parking structure, seniors housing and a new transit terminal, and that this allows for co-ordinated growth while the mall remains open throughout construction.

“This scale of housing advances HRM growth targets, addresses housing supply challenges, addresses aging in place with dedicated senior housing and provides for onsite affordable housing contributions through incentive zoning,” Saleh said.

Saleh said there will be two acres set aside for an HRM-owned park, there will be a “family entertainment” indoor space connected to the mall and 70,000 square metres of open space throughout the development.

When asked if a new school is included, HRM staff said the proposal was forwarded to the Halifax Regional Centre for Education, which didn’t request that land be set aside for a school. HRCE has indicated that kids will go to Crichton Park Elementary, Bicentennial Jr. School and Dartmouth High School. HRM staff said it’s up to HRCE to ensure there’s space for children in local schools.

It’s a big development, but the area was identified for growth for good reason, said Coun. Sam Austin (Dartmouth Centre).

“If you look at the site, we’re taking asphalt parking lots and we’re turning them into housing, and we’re doing it on a site that has transit access, and we have planning for the multi-use trails.”

He said there’s been talk of dropping a community the size of Truro in there, but there’s one key difference: “We’re not dropping Truro in isolation. It is part of a wider city.”

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Honestly, I think it looks pretty good. I don't think we're seeing the final design of any of the towers given how far out actual construction will be. The site could host twice as many towers and still not be too dense.

[ArchAficionado]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Well, this mega-proposal went through Council yesterday like s**t through a goose. The Herald has a good piece on it today. Of course Slick Sam Austin is all for it, being the Soviet-style type of development he prefers. Another good Jen Taplin story:





https://www.saltwire.com/nova-scotia/halifax/company-circling

Sam Austin Living Rent Free in your head as usual

The architecture does leave lots to be desired and the massing is a little aggressive for this part of Dartmouth but overall the plan for the community is both bold and an effective upgrade of this space. Hopefully the progressive design process here will yield some more attractive projects once shovels are in the ground.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Where will they locate the LRT station that will allow rail access to follow the 111 to cross over the MacKay Bridge replacement and into DT Halifax? A branch continuing into Westphal and Portland areas could be useful as well.

[Colin May]

Significant increase in HRFE Department capability required for this development. All the expats in Dubai and the Gulf area will find safety in this development. (We have relatives in the Gulf... quite a change from when I was there and the Shah was the leader in Iran )

[Corker]

A similar news story on the approval from CBC:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scot...nto-thousands-of-housing-units-9.7128339

[OldDartmouthMark]

I can’t help but think that this will become a poorly planned disaster, unless some significant infrastructure upgrades happen in advance. Zero excitement on my part here.

How to ruin a nice neighborhood and decent shopping mall in ten easy steps.

[stephan.richard]

Where will people park to go to the mall that is my bigges opposition to the project,

[LikesBikes]

I'm not really a fan of these high-density clusters in the suburbs either. If there was higher order transit then they'd I'd support this, but if it's only being served by the regular bus (not BRT) and it's not really in the pedestrian or bike-friendly part of the city, most people are going to have a car and it probably won't end up being a great space from an urbanism perspective.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Originally Posted by stephan.richard

Where will people park to go to the mall that is my bigges opposition to the project,

I believe that I read that included in phase one of the plan is the building of a multi floor parking structure. ...much better than a huge surface parking lot.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

I was happy to hear it when council coined the 'centre plan' name and included everything within the 111. It seemed a recognition by council that the city was growing and that the 'city' was not just a small area of the peninsula. This project seems to very much personify aspects of the centre plan. I'd actually like to see a total removal of the mall and dense building along two sides of a street that ran through the centre of this site. Even two streets if the space allowed. It's the kind of density we need to make LRT less of an option and more of a necessity. It should be noted that this site is very walkable to the harbour ferry, downtown Dartmouth and Burnside Business Park and Shubie Park too.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour

I'd actually like to see a total removal of the mall and dense building along two sides of a street that ran through the centre of this site. Even two streets if the space allowed.

I'm wondering why we would want to remove the mall if we are densifying, unless we want to build an urban-style shopping centre where the stores are stacked and the footprint is smaller. Nearby shopping amenities are what helps to make a dense area walkable.

Additionally, why this site in particular? Aside from the philosophy that surface parking and suburban malls are bad, is this the best location for this kind of development? Presumably it has seen the light of day because of a business opportunity, but not necessarily from a plan of how to best densify the city. Looking at online satellite views, I see quite a bit of undeveloped land in the north Dartmouth area that might be better suited a development of this type.

Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour

It's the kind of density we need to make LRT less of an option and more of a necessity.

One of my pet peeves about Halifax (and I'm sure we're not unique in this respect), is the reactionary thinking that we have to create a problem before we solve it. Densifying an area that already is near the limits of traffic capacity with the idea that LRT will be built to solve the resultant traffic issues seems to be setting up a situation of traffic hell for 10 - 20 years (or more, this is Halifax after all) before we have an acceptable transit solution.

Maybe it's necessary to do it this way, and I understand your reasoning for stating it, but I would much rather see a plan for LRT or some sort of higher-order transit, and let development follow from there. For example, if the city/province worked together to find a way to run LRT along the 111, over the future MacKay bridge replacement, and to the downtown and beyond, dense development could be planned and evolve along that route, while the LRT was being built, rather than enduring the delay of the solution after the problem has become untenable.

Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour

It should be noted that this site is very walkable to the harbour ferry, downtown Dartmouth and Burnside Business Park and Shubie Park too.

I agree with the first part, as I used to walk from downtown Dartmouth to Mic Mac Mall, it's about 40 minutes. Is there an easy way to walk to Burnside, Dartmouth Crossing, etc? Once you get to Burnside, the walking is so-so, however... some areas are well sidewalked, but some are just beaten paths into existing terrain.

Just my thoughts, for what it's worth.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I'm wondering why we would want to remove the mall if we are densifying, unless we want to build an urban-style shopping centre where the stores are stacked and the footprint is smaller. Nearby shopping amenities are what helps to make a dense area walkable.

Right, I wouldn't advocate removal of any of the shopping and services currently found in the neighbourhood. Ideally they'd find a home in the newly built towers. Thinking on the fly, perhaps residential towers could likely be built above the existing mall.

Additionally, why this site in particular? Aside from the philosophy that surface parking and suburban malls are bad, is this the best location for this kind of development? Presumably it has seen the light of day because of a business opportunity, but not necessarily from a plan of how to best densify the city. Looking at online satellite views, I see quite a bit of undeveloped land in the north Dartmouth area that might be better suited a development of this type.

This site falls within the Centre Plan area and the owner wants to redevelop the site so let's support and encourage. This site is ideally located between the massive Shubie park and Golden Acres park and the lakes...so many recreational opportunities.

One of my pet peeves about Halifax (and I'm sure we're not unique in this respect), is the reactionary thinking that we have to create a problem before we solve it. Densifying an area that already is near the limits of traffic capacity with the idea that LRT will be built to solve the resultant traffic issues seems to be setting up a situation of traffic hell for 10 - 20 years (or more, this is Halifax after all) before we have an acceptable transit solution.

Maybe it's necessary to do it this way, and I understand your reasoning for stating it, but I would much rather see a plan for LRT or some sort of higher-order transit, and let development follow from there. For example, if the city/province worked together to find a way to run LRT along the 111, over the future MacKay bridge replacement, and to the downtown and beyond, dense development could be planned and evolve along that route, while the LRT was being built, rather than enduring the delay of the solution after the problem has become untenable.

I could not agree more. I sometimes think that the city council has no faith that the city will grow and prosper and therefore they won't preemptively build anything/something. I'm hopeful that the LINK study will properly define HRM's public transportation needs.


I agree with the first part, as I used to walk from downtown Dartmouth to Mic Mac Mall, it's about 40 minutes. Is there an easy way to walk to Burnside, Dartmouth Crossing, etc? Once you get to Burnside, the walking is so-so, however... some areas are well sidewalked, but some are just beaten paths into existing terrain.

At one end of Micmac Blvd. you have Shubie park accessed via under the 111 overpass which leads to an overpass over the 118 and into Dartmouth Crossing. At the other end of Micmac Blvd. you cross the 118 onto Lancaster and then through Golden Arches park onto Burnside drive which has an overpass over the 111.

There is no pride evident in our Industrial/Business Parks. The missing sidewalks, unkempt streets and garbage strewn areas are shameful. HRM could take a lesson from other cities who recognize the major contribution their business parks make to their host cities and show some pride of place.

Just my thoughts, for what it's worth.

I enjoy the discussion. Thanks!

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour

I enjoy the discussion. Thanks!