PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[Skintreesnail]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Gonna stand on my soapbox here and say that improved passenger rail is essential to the success of this region.

Beyond the idea that SEPTA shouldn't be in the freefall it's in right now, there is also no reason I shouldn't be able to take a train from Philadelphia to Allentown.

Maybe they should rebrand as Pennsylvania Railroad to get the right on board. Just think of all the sweet memberberries from that harvest. I'm only half joking really .

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Gonna stand on my soapbox here and say that improved passenger rail is essential to the success of this region.

Beyond the idea that SEPTA shouldn't be in the freefall it's in right now, there is also no reason I shouldn't be able to take a train from Philadelphia to Allentown.

The decimation and deterioration of the US rail network, especially in the Northeast region, was arguably THE biggest mistake of the 20th Century in terms of economic blunders.

Total self-sabotage of satellite cities and towns to tap into more prosperous metro areas. And the US not having even one true high-speed rail line comparable to Europe or Japan is an absolute travesty.

For our insane wealth and useless bluster about "greatness," American infrastructure is a complete joke.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Also, those trains go upstate but at least the homeowners aren't taking them. They're all driving, even from NYC.

Except they aren't? Both Amtrak's Empire Service and Metro North see incredibly high ridership, and they've both seen even more since the congestion charge was put in place.

[BroadandMarket]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

What's to say a NY'er shouldn't have a weekend house in Columbia County? Sullivan County? Those areas are beautiful. Have an old farmhouse perched on a hillside somewhere then drive into town in Bloomsburg or Lewisburg and have your brunch and antique shopping, etc. A lof of our small towns and cities already have what upstate NY has. It's just that nobody knows about it.

One there's just a stigma and New Yorkers want to be in New York state, not PA. Also those aren't close and have no trains like I said before. Bloomsburg and Lewisburg are 3 hours without traffic from NYC. Sullivan county is saying 3 hours and 45 minutes. Beacon is 1.5 hour, Kingston is 2 hours, Hudson is 2 and a half. Also if you're going to own a place in the woods, I'd much rather be closer to great skiing in Vermont/NH/Maine.

There's a 7 AM Metro-North train that gets you to Grand Central in an hour. Tons of people commute for work to NYC. It's 70 miles. No one is commuting from Allentown, Easton or Lancaster to Philly, which are about 70 miles.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

There's a 7 AM Metro-North train that gets you to Grand Central in an hour. Tons of people commute for work to NYC. It's 70 miles. No one is commuting from Allentown, Easton or Lancaster to Philly, which are about 70 miles.

What MetroNorth train gets you from the Hudson Valley to Grand Central in an hour? You can barely get an express train from Greenwich to Grand Central in an hour. The furthest north MetroNorth goes is to Poughkeepsie, which is hardly upstate. That's 1 hour and 44 each way. On the train. This doesn't include commute time on either end of the train.

I work in NYC. I've been working in NYC for the past 15 years. Not a single colleague of mine in 15 years has commuted from the Hudson Valley. A handful have moved there, but they move there when they're opting out and checking out of the rat race. Hybrid work has made it easier for people to make it work but it's still 2-3 hours each way on the train.

Again, I'm not suggesting rural PA as an option for commuters, that's absurd. I'm suggesting it as an option for the weekend house crowd.

[chimpskibot]

I think it's also important to remember NY state funds the arts and cultures where PA does not. Hudson has the 2nd or third highest density of artists outside of Taos,NM and Brooklyn. This isn't a fluke. It should also be noted that as the Hudson valley and Catskills regions have become more tourist and weekender oriented the population of the regions continue to decline as there are few industries and jobs outside of the arts and tourism. This is a really good doc on Hudson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaJ0bueukPo&t=2998s

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

So in summary, recent lab & manufacturing expansions from the majors include:
Eli Lilly $3.5BN Manufacturing Plant, Upper Macungie Twp. Lehigh County
Eli Lilly $X.XMM Innovation Center, Center City Philadelphia
J & J $1.0BN Cell Manufacturing Plant, Lower Gwynedd Twp. Montco
GSK $0.8BN Multi Purpose Facility, Marietta Twp, Lancaster County
Merck $1.0BN Biologics Manufacturing Facility, Wilmington DE

Let's keep it rolling.

Also from the Business Journal article:

“GSK said in September it planned to build a new biologics flex factory at its East Campus on River Road in Upper Merion Township, where the company has existing manufacturing operations. The project is part of its initiative to invest $30 billion to expand its research and supply chain infrastructure in the United States over the next five years. Details about the size and timeline for the Upper Merion plant have not yet been disclosed by GSK.”

[BroadandMarket]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

What MetroNorth train gets you from the Hudson Valley to Grand Central in an hour?

https://www.mta.info/schedules/metro-north/hudson

Beacon 7:00 to 8:13 Grand Central. Very doable for lots of hybrid work that you work in the city twice a week.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

https://www.mta.info/schedules/metro-north/hudson

Beacon 7:00 to 8:13 Grand Central. Very doable for lots of hybrid work that you work in the city twice a week.

Nice cherry pick.

Beacon is not upstate NY. It's the first town north of Westchester County outside of county lines which is most definitively not "upstate". If it is, it's the very southern end of what one might consider the gateway to the rest of the Hudson Valley. Kingston, Catskill, Germantown, Hudson, Rhinebeck, Saugerties...the quintessential Hudson Valley towns, are another 60+ miles north of Beacon. None of them are on Metro North. They are on Amtrak however and that commute is 2 hours and 2 minutes each way to Hudson.

Using MetroNorth to get to the city from those other towns would be like me driving to Newark NJ to take the PATH into NYC. Not even in the same orbit.

Hudson NY is another 70 miles north from Beacon

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Nice cherry pick.

Beacon is not upstate NY. It's the first town north of Westchester County outside of county lines which is most definitively not "upstate". If it is, it's the very southern end of what one might consider the gateway to the rest of the Hudson Valley. Kingston, Catskill, Germantown, Hudson, Rhinebeck, Saugerties...the quintessential Hudson Valley towns, are another 60+ miles north of Beacon. None of them are on Metro North. They are on Amtrak however and that commute is 2 hours and 2 minutes each way to Hudson.

Using MetroNorth to get to the city from those other towns would be like me driving to Newark NJ to take the PATH into NYC. Not even in the same orbit.

Hudson NY is another 70 miles north from Beacon

Hudson isn't for Amtrak commuters. The people that live there don't work anymore or take the chopper down to the city for dinner.

[Nova08]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Gonna stand on my soapbox here and say that improved passenger rail is essential to the success of this region.

Beyond the idea that SEPTA shouldn't be in the freefall it's in right now, there is also no reason I shouldn't be able to take a train from Philadelphia to Allentown.

I hear you but you know better than most about Septa's blunders in the 80s to let go of the exReading lines out that way. Once it went to trails and ensuing development adjacent to the ROW north of Quakertown there is nearly 0 chance to ever reactivate it. And sorry, but the current NS circuitous route makes no sense to anything beyond Reading

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Hudson isn't for Amtrak commuters. The people that live there don't work anymore or take the chopper down to the city for dinner.

Agreed. I'm not the one arguing it is.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

https://www.mta.info/schedules/metro-north/hudson

Beacon 7:00 to 8:13 Grand Central. Very doable for lots of hybrid work that you work in the city twice a week.

That seems nuts. I lived in Monroe NY (Orange County) and commuted to the Financial District for 10 years. It was 1:25 before 9/11 and 1:45 after.

That's nearly half of the distance as Beacon is.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Nova08

I hear you but you know better than most about Septa's blunders in the 80s to let go of the exReading lines out that way. Once it went to trails and ensuing development adjacent to the ROW north of Quakertown there is nearly 0 chance to ever reactivate it. And sorry, but the current NS circuitous route makes no sense to anything beyond Reading

SEPTA abandoned everything outside of the 5 county area in 1981 because the State slashed funding for said service. Bethlehem and Newtown saw good enough ridership that I'm confident they'd still be around today had it not been for that.

You can blame SEPTA for the rails-to-trails of the Ivy Ridge Line, the Newtown Line, and the Bethlehem Branch, and there is some blame indeed deserved, but you must realize that said projects had immense political backing behind them that SEPTA could not afford to stand up against in the face of poor funding.

Nothing is impossible. SEPTA still owns the right of way for Bethlehem as far as High Street in Hellertown, and maintains trackage rights over Norfolk Southern in perpetuity.

Wassaic on the Metro-North Harlem Line was rails-to-trailsed, yet restored to service in harmony with the trail in the early 2000s. The right-of-way of the Bethlehem Branch is more than wide enough to support a 2 track railroad and bike trail.

[PHLtoNYC]

After 2-year delay, demolition to begin for $105M Willow Grove Shopping Center redevelopment
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...-willow-grove-development-mixed-use.html

The $105 million project calls for demolishing 130,000 square feet of obsolete retail space and replacing it with a six-story residential building and 35,000 square feet of retail space.

The retail space will be split between 20,000 square feet on the ground floor of the apartment building and 15,000 square feet at two pad sites. An attached six-story parking garage is also planned.

The property is at 122 Park Ave. at the southwest corner of Easton and York roads. Because the site is across the street from the Willow Grove SEPTA station, Upper Moreland Township identified the property as a prime redevelopment opportunity. The Willow Grove Shopping Center and surrounding properties were rezoned in recent years, Brennan said, which unlocked the potential of these sites.

[Redddog]

dupe

[bigfish]

Renderings for the proposed apartment building in Ambler on the SEPTA regional rail parking lots
https://wwww.septa.org/news/ambler-stati...7mlEw1tRs7-i4_aem_ktjNAmbfxRyMKSmGpF66uQ

[PHLtoNYC]

The retail shift continues...

Delaware's only Nordstrom is closing
https://www.inquirer.com/business/retail/nordstrom-christiana-mall-delaware-closing-20260302.html

The Christiana Mall store is set to shutter next month. At the same time, the luxury retailer is opening more Nordstrom Rack locations, including in Deptford, Exton, Marlton, and Media.

[DIESELPOLO]

Exciting stuff!

Found the site plan (pg 11)

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

After 2-year delay, demolition to begin for $105M Willow Grove Shopping Center redevelopment
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...-willow-grove-development-mixed-use.html

The $105 million project calls for demolishing 130,000 square feet of obsolete retail space and replacing it with a six-story residential building and 35,000 square feet of retail space.

The retail space will be split between 20,000 square feet on the ground floor of the apartment building and 15,000 square feet at two pad sites. An attached six-story parking garage is also planned.

The property is at 122 Park Ave. at the southwest corner of Easton and York roads. Because the site is across the street from the Willow Grove SEPTA station, Upper Moreland Township identified the property as a prime redevelopment opportunity. The Willow Grove Shopping Center and surrounding properties were rezoned in recent years, Brennan said, which unlocked the potential of these sites.

[PHLtoNYC]

And suburban NIMBYs wonder why the housing and rental market in the burbs is so expensive and competitive...

It's one thing if a developer wants to cut down woodlands or open space, but this is a previously developed impervious site beyond its useful lifespan... This is exactly the type of property developers and townships should be capitalizing on... Old malls, office buildings, parking lots, etc.

Developer plans gas station after Plymouth Township rejects apartment proposal
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...cx_testVariant=cx_8&cx_artPos=1#cxrecs_s

After Plymouth Township turned down a previous proposal for a mixed-use redevelopment of a Conshohocken office park, developer BET Investments shifted gears and is now planning a 24-hour convenience store and gas station for the site.

“We presented a great plan to the Plymouth Board of Commissioners and they told us they weren’t inclined to adopt a text amendment to allow it,” BET President Michael Markman said. “They told us to look at current zoning uses on the site. That’s what we did.”

BET initially planned to overhaul a portion of the Conshohocken Ridge Corporate Center with up to 200 apartments and retail. The Dresher-based developer is now planning a 6,500-square-foot convenience store with eight gas pumps.