[Saint John, NB] 🚲 Active Transportation 🛴

[bingun]

Green is city funding, blue is external, and white is total. I believe this section is covered by the last item, so a $1M.

I will also add that the trail in its current condition is difficult to cycle or walk on; there is a steep incline/decline at one point (I think there is a ravine from memory). I assume this will make it more accessible.

[paperplane]

Yeah, addressing that wild grade will be something and $$$!

[bingun]

I went to the public information session this evening, and it was great. They had a video walkthrough of the trail from start to finish and back again, which made it really easy to understand what it will look like. I didn't record it, but I grabbed a few pictures. Hopefully, they will post it online at some point.

As for specifics, they are following the current trail initially coming from the reversing falls, but then they will deviate further inland to avoid the steep gradient. Also, towards the end, the trail will snake around a bit more and offer a better view closer to the water than it does now. As you can see from the diagram, the maximum slope is 6%, and there is a bridge midway through the trail over the stream.

Work is scheduled to begin in the spring and be wrapped up by fall.

As for the section they will show on Thursday, @adamuptownsj, I think you will be very happy. I believe it will be on the eastern side of the street until Crown/Union.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

I went to the public information session this evening, and it was great. They had a video walkthrough of the trail from start to finish and back again, which made it really easy to understand what it will look like. I didn't record it, but I grabbed a few pictures. Hopefully, they will post it online at some point.

As for specifics, they are following the current trail initially coming from the reversing falls, but then they will deviate further inland to avoid the steep gradient. Also, towards the end, the trail will snake around a bit more and offer a better view closer to the water than it does now. As you can see from the diagram, the maximum slope is 6%, and there is a bridge midway through the trail over the stream.

Work is scheduled to begin in the spring and be wrapped up by fall.

As for the section they will show on Thursday, @adamuptownsj, I think you will be very happy. I believe it will be on the eastern side of the street until Crown/Union.

I went as well and took a few clips of the videos and other diagrams… Will try and post later.

While I’d still rather see however much money this will cost invested in a bike sharing system or a pedestrian overpass at Molson Ave instead, I was quite impressed with the video rendering and diagrams. This will be a very positive development for the West Side.


Also, I was talking to someone from our regional growth agency that also attended the session, and was happy to hear that the National Urban Park opportunity for Rockwood Park is very much on their radar, even including Partridge Island as part of the proposal, which I was pleasantly surprised to hear.

I’ve long felt when it comes to multi use trails in Saint John… all roads should lead to Rockwood Park.

If Saint John does secure the province’s first national urban park, it would certainly help the cause of funding and expanding active transportation infrastructure in the Port City, especially if areas like Partridge Island and Seaside Park were incorporated as part of the national urban park.

[adamuptownsj]

I was there too @bingun, right at 6, but I was still bundled up from ice fishing so I didn't stick around too long.

Very pleased with the short timeline on this, completion by fall is awesome. The grade should be no more than 6 degrees across this whole section. Some parts are currently 30 degrees.

Where this path deviates from the existing path is indicated in this map: https://imgur.com/a/e28iqEz Apparently it will be left as-is if anyone wants to enjoy the steeper sections, and no upgrades or changes are currently planned on the paths down to the water.

Great news on the Courtenay Bay section too. Getting as far as Union on the water side is all we could hope for. The west side is actually better past Union as it doesn't cross any retail parking lot entrances or residential driveways, and makes crossing the viaduct much simpler without interfering with the eastbound onramp or traffic moving from Crown to and from the Mile One Interchange. In fact, other than the Hay Market/Crown interchange, it only crosses Paul Harris and Seely. I presume the already Harbour-Passage-like sidewalk and lighting between Rocky Terrace and Mount Pleasant around the Community Garden either gets upgraded/painted red, or serves as the terminus.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Great news on the Courtenay Bay section too. Getting as far as Union on the water side is all we could hope for. The west side is actually better past Union as it doesn't cross any retail parking lot entrances or residential driveways, and makes crossing the viaduct much simpler without interfering with the eastbound onramp or traffic moving from Crown to and from the Mile One Interchange. In fact, other than the Hay Market/Crown interchange, it only crosses Paul Harris and Seely. I presume the already Harbour-Passage-like sidewalk and lighting between Rocky Terrace and Mount Pleasant around the Community Garden either gets upgraded/painted red, or serves as the terminus.

There is nothing on the water side of Crown until you reach 290 Crown (at the foot of King St East) but from there to Union the buildings are right up against a relatively narrow asphalt sidewalk. I wonder what the plan is there?

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by sailor734

There is nothing on the water side of Crown until you reach 290 Crown (at the foot of King St East) but from there to Union the buildings are right up against a relatively narrow asphalt sidewalk. I wonder what the plan is there?

Crown absolutely does not need to be three lanes from Leinster to Elliott. I assume it gets reduced to two, until after 250 Elliott (the last house on the east side of Crown). I am not a huge 'road diet' proponent but this is the perfect place for one. This would give plenty of space for Harbour Passage (as it would include the existing sidewalk), and also for the east side sidewalk to get a proper ~4' treed verge.

The issue here is what to do from Leinster down to Mecklenburg, where Crown is only 34' wide with a steep embankment to the east. South of Mecklenburg, Crown is a monster 48' wide.

Anyway really looking forward to seeing the concept.

[bingun]

I believe Crown north of Union will lose a lane to widen the path and create a buffer between it and the road, which will be a controversial decision. I expect a fair amount of opposition to that.

South of Union will likely have to lose the northbound right-turn lane.

I want to know the plan for the Crown Street highway overpass. How easy is that going to be to figure out with the province?

[adamuptownsj]

I doubt south of Union will lose the full right-turn lane, just most of it. North of Elliott there's vacant land to play with. Eliminating the right turn lane entirely would be idiotic and create an actual traffic bottleneck.

Crown doesn't need to be five lanes. It's immensely overbuilt. Four is plenty. They soured people on the concept of a road diet with the monstrosity on Main and the stupid narrowing of City Road.

I don't think there will be as much pushback on Crown. A Harbour Passage route between the waterfront and Rockwood would inspire and deserve less commuter rage than gigantic unused bike lanes and bizarre lighted offramps on the main west-south and secondary north-south artery.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

The plans for the Harbour Passage extension to Rockwood Park.

(These photos were posted on Facebook by Barry Ogden):

More plans for Harbour Passage expansion.

Good to see the trail will finally link up with Rockwood Park.

Most people riding their bikes in Rockwood Park will drive there with their bikes… but maybe this extension of the Harbour Passage will finally change that.

[bingun]

Just catching up this morning, I attended the public session last night and had a good chat with the folks there.

They've posted this on Shape Your City - https://shapeyourcitysaintjohn.ca/harbour-passage-extension

On the right side of the page, in the document section, you can download the boards to view them more clearly. There were some additional diagrams at the event showing detailed changes to the roads, but they don't appear to be included.

Having the path on the east side of the street, prior to Union, is great to see. Based on the diagrams, it will use some of the vacant land and require a slight narrowing of the street. They will have several 'feature plazas' along this stretch, too, overlooking the water.



They said they didn't want to take the path under the causeway by the rail tracks, as it would be kind of dark/sheltered/unsafe, and they would prefer it to be more open and visible.



North of Union will be a dramatic change. Except near the intersection, they are suggesting reducing the lanes from 5 to 3 (1 northbound, 1 southbound, and a turn lane). I am not personally against this, but the rabid anti-bike lane crowd on Facebook might be.



For the Crown St overpass, they are suggesting changing from 4 lanes to 3. The two northbound lanes would remain unchanged, but one of the southbound lanes would be lost. Changing the bridge in this way would require structural modifications because the loads differ from those originally designed for. I am not an engineer, but that does not sound like a straightforward task. When I asked them about working with the province on that, they initially laughed.

[darkharbour]

I also attended the open house, I thought there were some great ideas and I do hope this vision eventually becomes a reality (although I realize that the funding required would mean this might be 5+ years down the road).

Besides the obvious path and landscaping additions, which will be phenomenal for improving the look of the entire corridor, I am most excited for the changes to Crown Street north of Union and at Haymarket Square. Crown by Shoppers has a ton of pedestrian activity trying to cross a massive 5 lane street and it causes a lot of near misses and accidents as people try to run across all those lanes, often while not feeling their best (ie. the reason why they are headed to the pharmacy and attached health clinic). Narrowing it to 3 lanes will be huge for them, and frankly there just isn't enough traffic there to justify the size of that road, I can think of a million times I have driven down there and seen just a few cars, even in the middle of a weekday.

Same goes for the overpass itself. I used to live by the Public Gardens and walk down that viaduct to work Uptown and there would be times that I would barely see cars on that road, meanwhile on a nice day you'd see a steady parade of people, children and families with towels/rods/carts all heading to Rockwood/Lily Lake to swim, play, or fish.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

I also attended the open house, I thought there were some great ideas and I do hope this vision eventually becomes a reality (although I realize that the funding required would mean this might be 5+ years down the road).

Besides the obvious path and landscaping additions, which will be phenomenal for improving the look of the entire corridor, I am most excited for the changes to Crown Street north of Union and at Haymarket Square. Crown by Shoppers has a ton of pedestrian activity trying to cross a massive 5 lane street and it causes a lot of near misses and accidents as people try to run across all those lanes, often while not feeling their best (ie. the reason why they are headed to the pharmacy and attached health clinic). Narrowing it to 3 lanes will be huge for them, and frankly there just isn't enough traffic there to justify the size of that road, I can think of a million times I have driven down there and seen just a few cars, even in the middle of a weekday.

Same goes for the overpass itself. I used to live by the Public Gardens and walk down that viaduct to work Uptown and there would be times that I would barely see cars on that road, meanwhile on a nice day you'd see a steady parade of people, children and families with towels/rods/carts all heading to Rockwood/Lily Lake to swim, play, or fish.

I agree with you. I semi-regularly drive up Crown Street from Union to reach the highway, and even during commuter hours (4:30-5pm), it's not busy. I have also noticed a lot of people not even bothering to wait for the pedestrian lights and just running across the street to Shoppers Drug Mart and back.

I think keeping the two lanes northbound on the overpass is the correct choice, as there is a fair amount of vehicles heading onto the highway there, whereas southbound is generally quieter.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by bingun

I agree with you. I semi-regularly drive up Crown Street from Union to reach the highway, and even during commuter hours (4:30-5pm), it's not busy. I have also noticed a lot of people not even bothering to wait for the pedestrian lights and just running across the street to Shoppers Drug Mart and back.

I think keeping the two lanes northbound on the overpass is the correct choice, as there is a fair amount of vehicles heading onto the highway there, whereas southbound is generally quieter.

I use the overpass fairly often going to Grandview Ave area via the causeway from Millidgeville. I agree if the are going to reduce anything to 1 lane it should be southbound.

I also agree the sidewalk on the overpass to get to and from Rockwood is pretty inadequate as it stands. What they are proposing would be a big improvement.

[bingun]

I forgot to mention this in my original post, but there is a survey on the Shape Your City site regarding this extension. If you support it or want to provide feedback, it would be great to fill it out so the city has support from residents.

https://shapeyourcitysaintjohn.ca/harbour-passage-extension

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by bingun

I forgot to mention this in my original post, but there is a survey on the Shape Your City site regarding this extension. If you support it or want to provide feedback, it would be great to fill it out so the city has support from residents.

https://shapeyourcitysaintjohn.ca/harbour-passage-extension

Relevant parts of my response:

Overall, what do you like about the proposed design?
Narrowing of Crown south of Union, the decision to keep the extension of the passage on the east side of Crown to eliminate crossing south end streets every block, improved visibility and access around Courtenay Bay, accessible from all east-west streets

What would you like to see changed or improved in the proposed design?
Leave right-turn lane from Crown to the causeway intact from Elliott north, have HP cross Crown at Elliott instead of Union. Ensure planned reduction of Crown from Union to Hay Market Square to three lanes will move traffic effectively-- consider 4 lanes?

Is there anything else you would like us to consider as the design is refined?
Consider stages of construction carefully. Will this be done in random sections, or extended from south to north incrementally? I would also like the city to consider a proper gate at the Lily Lake entrance to Rockwood to highlight it as the beginning/end of Harbour Passage. Additionally, sidewalk improvements on the south side of Arrow Walk and Hawthorne at least as far as the crosswalk at Sandy Point should be considered. It's in very dire shape.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Relevant parts of my response:

Overall, what do you like about the proposed design?
Narrowing of Crown south of Union, the decision to keep the extension of the passage on the east side of Crown to eliminate crossing south end streets every block, improved visibility and access around Courtenay Bay, accessible from all east-west streets

What would you like to see changed or improved in the proposed design?
Leave right-turn lane from Crown to the causeway intact from Elliott north, have HP cross Crown at Elliott instead of Union. Ensure planned reduction of Crown from Union to Hay Market Square to three lanes will move traffic effectively-- consider 4 lanes?

Is there anything else you would like us to consider as the design is refined?
Consider stages of construction carefully. Will this be done in random sections, or extended from south to north incrementally? I would also like the city to consider a proper gate at the Lily Lake entrance to Rockwood to highlight it as the beginning/end of Harbour Passage. Additionally, sidewalk improvements on the south side of Arrow Walk and Hawthorne at least as far as the crosswalk at Sandy Point should be considered. It's in very dire shape.

This is a great one. As a Mount Pleasant resident who walks or runs on that "sidewalk" - and I hesitate to even call that narrow, crumbling mess of asphalt a sidewalk - I can attest that it is awful and best avoided.

[bingun]

Re-posting the below as it's relevant.

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Found these overdue road improvements near Rockwood in the council agenda. Nearly a kilometer of actual sidewalk better connecting the park to the North End.

I always thought that 5-way intersection at Parks and Mt Pleasant would be better as a roundabout, since we're on the subject.

Arrow Walk Road (Hawthorne Avenue Extension to Mount Pleasant Avenue): Asphalt Maintenance Resurfacing and Concrete Curb and Sidewalk Installation.

Hawthorne Avenue (Parks Street to Sandy Point Road): Asphalt Maintenance Resurfacing and Concrete Curb and Sidewalk Installation.

Hawthorne Avenue Extension (Sandy Point Road to Arrow Walk Road): Asphalt Maintenance Resurfacing and Concrete Curb and Sidewalk Installation.

A new section of Harbour Passage is underway at Fallsview Avenue. This is the small circular street that looks out at Reversing Falls and the pulp mill. This should be finished up before or during early August.

I kind of forgot about this part, but it is good to see. The last time I drove down that way to park up and enjoy the view, the road and existing sidewalks (if you can even call them that) were in abysmal shape. A bus of tourists showed up, too. I wonder what they thought.

Sadly, between this section, the cove, and Market Place West, there will be several 'orphaned' sections of Harbour Passage by the end of the year. I appreciate that they are part of a larger plan, but they will be quite awkward in the meantime.

https://saintjohn.ca/en/news-and-notices/traffic-advisory-fallsview-avenue-and-gregory-place

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

Re-posting the below as it's relevant.



A new section of Harbour Passage is underway at Fallsview Avenue. This is the small circular street that looks out at Reversing Falls and the pulp mill. This should be finished up before or during early August.

I kind of forgot about this part, but it is good to see. The last time I drove down that way to park up and enjoy the view, the road and existing sidewalks (if you can even call them that) were in abysmal shape. A bus of tourists showed up, too. I wonder what they thought.

Sadly, between this section, the cove, and Market Place West, there will be several 'orphaned' sections of Harbour Passage by the end of the year. I appreciate that they are part of a larger plan, but they will be quite awkward in the meantime.

https://saintjohn.ca/en/news-and-notices/traffic-advisory-fallsview-avenue-and-gregory-place

The city should at least invest in much better transit links between the Lower West Side and Uptown with far more frequent busses running between the Lower West Side and Uptown Saint John, with stops at these "sad sections" of the Harbour Passage. Better transit would make these disjointed sections of the Harbour Passage a lot less dismal.

I still think the city/province/feds should be investing in a bike sharing system with stations across the Harbour Passage, main bike routes, and scattered around core and core adjacent neighbourhoods. Start with maybe a dozen stations, and hopefully grow it to 32 or more stations within another decade. That would fill up the bike lanes and get more people biking as a form of transportation... but nothing will ever stop the complaining.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

Just catching up this morning, I attended the public session last night and had a good chat with the folks there.

They've posted this on Shape Your City - https://shapeyourcitysaintjohn.ca/harbour-passage-extension

This extension of the Harbour Passage will be huge for that development on Leinster and huge for rejuvenating that whole eastern side of the peninsula.