Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[logan5]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Soccer definitely should be bigger as a major spectator sport in Vancouver, but as popular as the Whitecaps Football Club are, they will always be limited by the reputation of the MLS. So I'm not sure why moving into a smaller stadium helps “grow the game”...

Having a team with recognizable players, and matches that have 30 000 people attend, and decent television exposure, grow the game far more than having a no name 2nd tier league playing in your city. Kids will not be inspired by a sparsely attended, no name team in the CPL.

For the first time in history, Canada qualified for the World Cup in 1886, and that was because of the NASL, which brought soccer to the forefront in Canada, but then after that the momentum fizzled after the NASL folded.

We had the Vancouver 86ers and the Canadian Soccer League, but that did nothing to move the needle for soccer in Canada.

MLS came to Canada in the 2010's, and by the time of the 2022 World Cup, Canada had finally qualified again, for only the 2nd time in history, and that's because there was a recognizable soccer league, with recognizable names in our country. We are now at a point where the mens national team is ranked 27 in the world, and headed to the 2026 WC, where we will actually be favoured in at least one game. A far cry from when we were ranked in the 80's. We are at this point because of MLS.

To continue to grow the game in Vancouver, a stadium is needed so that the team can make more revenue, attract bigger names, be more successful, inspire more young players.

[cjones2451]

Looks like they are making progress on the permanent and temp structures on BMO Field

Pics from UrbanToronto.ca - Kotsy

[itom 987]

The last pic is terrible, and this arena is supposed to represent Canada.

[Djeffery]

Yeah, that southern set of temp bleachers looks sketchy as hell, but I imagine it will be all covered up in some type of wrap or cladding to make it look much better. What's the plan on the north side? That's looking permanent but not bleachers, I wonder if those are a few levels of suites and press areas? If memory serves, this was the end with the retractable seating that extended out for soccer and retracted in for the longer football field.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by itom 987

The last pic is terrible, and this arena is supposed to represent Canada.

That’s putting it nicely. Toronto simply shouldn’t be hosting any World Cup games when their stadium looks like this. Again, I think this whole idea that “Soccer Specific Stadiums are better”, is mostly BS to make MLS fans feel better about their league not being popular enough to fill up large stadiums like the EPL or NFL.

When SkyDome ceased being a multi purpose stadium, Toronto should have built a proper football/soccer stadium. Toronto is true global city and the closest thing Canada has to a mega city.

I get that there’s no guarantee building a 70k + stadium after SkyDome exclusively became a ballpark, but I still don’t think it makes sense that they built such a meager soccer stadium in a city that deserved something at least as big as Celtic Park or Emirates Stadium (60k stadiums). Toronto doesn’t need to be in a league with the prestige of the EPL to build a world class football/soccer stadium.

Dublin’s Croke Park has a seating capacity of nearly 70,000, and they may never host the world cup in Dublin. I think it shows lack of pride and ambition that Toronto’s economic and political leaders didn’t find a way to build a new stadium before hosting the World Cup.

I’ve said this before, but I don’t think it would be worth it to host a joint World Cup with the US again… and Mexico will have hosted the World Cup three times by the end of 2026… if Canada ever does a joint bid, I hope we do it with other medium and small English speaking countries (Australia, Ireland, New Zealand, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland)

In that type of situation, Toronto would be among the top choices for the final match (Along with Glasgow, Dublin, Melbourne, and Sydney) but Toronto would probably have to built a stadium even bigger than Dublin’s to be chosen for that honour. I guess Melbourne has a stadium with a capacity of 100,000, but I’m not sure if that’s seated capacity or not.

Regardless of if Canada does ever get a chance to be part of a joint World Cup bid again, Toronto ever gets an NFL team, or the MLS/CFL explodes in popularity, Toronto should build a bigger stadium.

Is there a single highly developed city in the world with a larger population and worse football/soccer stadium than Toronto?

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I get that there’s no guarantee building a 70k + stadium after SkyDome exclusively became a ballpark, but I still don’t think it makes sense that they built such a meager soccer stadium in a city that deserved something at least as big as Celtic Park or Emirates Stadium (60k stadiums).

But outside of this world cup, what do they need with a 60k soccer/football stadium? It would have limited usage, and when in use there'd be a lot of empty seats - which ruins the atmosphere and would force lower ticket prices.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Berklon

But outside of this world cup, what do they need with a 60k soccer/football stadium? It would have limited usage, and when in use there'd be a lot of empty seats - which ruins the atmosphere and would force lower ticket prices.

Concerts? International Friendlies? Part of an Olympic bid one day?


Forcing lower ticket prices for the MLS and CFl sounds like a good thing haha

If Dublin, Ireland can have a stadium of 70,000 … a 60k stadium in Toronto, seems perfectly reasonable.

Glasgow has two 50k stadiums and a 60k stadium. I don’t think Wembley Stadium gets that much football usage compared to the EPL stadiums in London, but I believe it hosts quite a few concerts and other events.

Very few of these stadiums are shared between two teams either, like a new Toronto stadium could be shared between an MLS club and a CFL team. Plus, it’s not like Toronto has a hard time attracting huge musical acts, so it would stand to reason such a stadium would host a lot of concerts.

I just find it perplexing why Toronto doesn’t have one of the biggest football/soccer stadiums in Canada.

[Dalreg]

Dublin has a 80,000+ stadium and a 51,000+ stadium.

Comparing European cities to Toronto don't cut it. Soccer has been embedded in Europe for a long time and is closer to religion than sport. Sport in Toronto and Canada as a whole comes nowhere near the passion, and yes that includes millions of suffering Leafs fans.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Concerts? International Friendlies? Part of an Olympic bid one day?

For larger concerts they already have Rogers Center and Rogers Stadium... and for smaller, but still major concerts - they also have Scotiabank arena and Budweiser stage (or whatever it's called this week).

International friendlies... how often and would they even fill 60k?

Olympic bid is a long shot, nevermind that Toronto doesn't seem to be interested in it - so why even bother with a stadium?

If Dublin, Ireland can have a stadium of 70,000 … a 60k stadium in Toronto, seems perfectly reasonable.

Glasgow has two 50k stadiums and a 60k stadium. I don’t think Wembley Stadium gets that much football usage compared to the EPL stadiums in London, but I believe it hosts quite a few concerts and other events.

Very few of these stadiums are shared between two teams either, like a new Toronto stadium could be shared between an MLS club and a CFL team. Plus, it’s not like Toronto has a hard time attracting huge musical acts, so it would stand to reason such a stadium would host a lot of concerts.

I just find it perplexing why Toronto doesn’t have one of the biggest football/soccer stadiums in Canada.

Yeah, and those cities have sports teams that can fill the seats in those stadiums. It's not if they can, it's if they should. And there's still no logical business reason. If someone wants to build a 60k stadium with 100% private money, then I'm sure no one will stop them - but I don't see anyone in standing in line to do that. Taxpayers certainly aren't going to fund a stadium that's total overkill for it's usage - and they probably wouldn't fund it even if they had a team that could sell out 60k.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Berklon

But outside of this world cup, what do they need with a 60k soccer/football stadium? It would have limited usage, and when in use there'd be a lot of empty seats - which ruins the atmosphere and would force lower ticket prices.

Don't try and bring logic and reasoning into this.

[Djeffery]

Rogers Stadium is making the case that an actual permanent 50k+ facility would get lots of use. I'm not saying top of the line NFL ready with all the bells and whistles, but something with real seats, and indoor plumbing, and you know, transit and parking and the ability to get in and out of the place without having to call in sick the next day. Rogers Centre isn't big enough and is too busy in prime stadium concert tour season. Certainly not a taxpayer funded facility, but Toronto definitely needs something like this.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Rogers Stadium is making the case that an actual permanent 50k+ facility would get lots of use

Define "lots of use".
Looking at the calendar for Rogers Stadium, they currently have 14 concerts (only 7 different acts) booked within a 5 month span. That's only about 3 per month on average. There may be more upcoming announcements, but I doubt there'll be a huge influx. Does that justify a new venue?

I have to believe that if a permanent stadium was truly needed and would be profitable, Rogers or whoever would already have plans in place to build one.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Define "lots of use".
Looking at the calendar for Rogers Stadium, they currently have 14 concerts (only 7 different acts) booked within a 5 month span. That's only about 3 per month on average. There may be more upcoming announcements, but I doubt there'll be a huge influx. Does that justify a new venue?

I have to believe that if a permanent stadium was truly needed and would be profitable, Rogers or whoever would already have plans in place to build one.

Who knows, Rogers Stadium is supposed to be a 5 year thing, presumably Downsview will start to get developed after that, and they will have some more realistic data to back up the idea of something permanent. Too bad this didn't align more with the planning stages of the World Cup, they may have actually been able to back up a new stadium for the World Cup with a few years of hard data on how useful the stadium would be after the Cup. With an actual real stadium, maybe Toronto also gets the lions share of Canada's games.

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by elly63

Don't try and bring logic and reasoning into this.

Based on major construction projects in Toronto that involve public money, they are usually WAY over budget and behind schedule (LRT, Subway)

I shouldn't pick on Toronto, the Broadway Skytrain extension is 2 year later than planned

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

What's the plan on the north side? That's looking permanent but not bleachers, I wonder if those are a few levels of suites and press areas? If memory serves, this was the end with the retractable seating that extended out for soccer and retracted in for the longer football field.

During the event



This is what the north end will look like post World Cup games

[Djeffery]

Cool, thanks for that. That actually looks pretty good (in AI anyway, let's see what the real thing looks like)

[J.OT13]

Seems like a good expansion that will make it stand out, no longer looking like a mid-tier Canadian stadium.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

When SkyDome ceased being a multi purpose stadium, Toronto should have built a proper football/soccer stadium. Toronto is true global city and the closest thing Canada has to a mega city.

I get that there’s no guarantee building a 70k + stadium after SkyDome exclusively became a ballpark, but I still don’t think it makes sense that they built such a meager soccer stadium in a city that deserved something at least as big as Celtic Park or Emirates Stadium (60k stadiums).

You've got the egg before the chicken here.

SkyDome didn't become baseball only until well after BMO was built. Unless you're saying the city should have built a 50k stadium for what the state of MLS was in 2007?

The whole ethos of MLS at the time was smaller, more intimate stadiums, and not playing in 50-70k NFL stadiums.

And then SkyDome was still used for football for another 10 years. So are you saying that in 2017 when TFC had reached their highest ever average of ~27k (that they haven't sustained), they should have doubled their space because the Argos and their 13,000 average were moving in?

[northernlights99]

well is it too late to have Edmonton Host some World Cup games ? As I recall they dropped out however they have a great Stadium ready to go.

The footprint for Commonwealth Stadium works pretty good for a soccer field.

62,000 seats.

do we know the exact dates for games in Toronto and Vancouver ?

I don't get the impression of too much Excitement for this tournament. Not sure why I feel this way.

People don't seem to be embracing this in Vancouver like they did for 2010 Winter Olympics.

and I am concerned about a terrorist attack.

[EpicPonyTime]

Edmonton didn’t drop out, it wasn’t chosen to host any games. Montreal dropped out and Vancouver did temporarily before jumping back in when it became clear Toronto was going to be the only Canadian host city.