General Updates and News

[Saul Goode]

I think Dartmouth Crossing is a particularly awful location for a casino.

While it might suit the dedicated gamblers among us just fine, it's lousy for walk-in traffic and for the other entertainment events it regularly hosts. Downtown is the best site, by far.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

An interesting tidbit though was that the possibility of removing ramparts restrictions for the whole Cogswell site is still on the table. It would be nice to see some real height here to break the downtown table-top.

This seems like a good idea for many reasons:

- Obviously there's demand for taller buildings now since developers are building them
- Putting taller buildings around Cogswell would have little to no impact on nearby residents
- The city's selling these land parcels so they will get more for them and there will be more development options without the ramparts constraint
- I've heard some buildings around that area predate the ramparts bylaw and violate it (maybe Barrington or Cogswell tower?)
- The ramparts bylaw is from a long time ago and due for reassessment; I think it's of limited value on top of the viewplanes, which protect actual views, and things have changed with the city growing and the interchange being removed

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

I think Dartmouth Crossing is a particularly awful location for a casino.

While it might suit the dedicated gamblers among us just fine, it's lousy for walk-in traffic and for the other entertainment events it regularly hosts. Downtown is the best site, by far.

I have to wonder if dedicated gamblers are the casino's primary demographic.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

I think Dartmouth Crossing is a particularly awful location for a casino.

While it might suit the dedicated gamblers among us just fine, it's lousy for walk-in traffic and for the other entertainment events it regularly hosts. Downtown is the best site, by far.

Downtown Dartmouth would be much better than Dartmouth Crossing. Either near the ferry terminal or the evolving dense cluster at the bridge.

While we're at it, maybe the Sportsplex could be rebuilt to have 16,000 seats? Big parking lot waiting for the building expansion.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by Empire

Downtown Dartmouth would be much better than Dartmouth Crossing. Either near the ferry terminal or the evolving dense cluster at the bridge.

While we're at it, maybe the Sportsplex could be rebuilt to have 16,000 seats? Big parking lot waiting for the building expansion.

So about that water lot in contention in the courts at Dartmouth Cove.
I have heard that the Casino has done well with visiting Cruise Ship passengers and the Port has plans to develop a Dartmouth Cruise terminal so...

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

I don't think anyone in downtown Dartmouth or bridge area would want to look at the size of parking lot that the casino likely wants ie. large enough to hold multiple coach sized buses and many cars. Dartmouth crossing seems a better location for that kind of thing. I suspect a tour operator will offer 'casino and shopping' excursions to cruise ship passengers. I imagine the current casino parkade will come down when the casino building does?

[Keith P.]

I think either Dartmouth option would be a very poor choice TBH.

What about a new combo casino plus concert hall/auditorium of some size, one designed with proper acoustics and facilities? Surely there is some space with underused sections of the port lands?

[someone123]

What is with this love of suburban office parks and always moving things around and rebuilding them? I guess there is money to be made in these deals even though the province, city, and environment may not be better off.

I feel like it makes even less sense for Halifax than it would in a larger city/province as, realistically, whatever is built is going to be less of a complete destination, and getting around the metro area is nowhere near as bad as it is in Montreal or Toronto. Dartmouth Crossing is probably much less convenient for the average visitor or resident.

It's true that the existing complex is a bit subpar and that stretch of waterfront is underutilized but most of the waterfront is underutilized with a few exceptions like Queen's Marque. And I'm not sure removing attractions will improve the waterfront.

[kzt79]

Originally Posted by someone123

getting around the metro area is nowhere near as bad as it is in Montreal or Toronto

Just curious what you mean by this? I find both cities (esp Montreal) much easier to traverse than Halifax.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by kzt79

Just curious what you mean by this? I find both cities (esp Montreal) much easier to traverse than Halifax.

I don't know; I'm not super-familiar with Montreal, but the sheer size and the increasing constancy of congestion make getting around the GTA the most frustrating urban transportation experience I know of in Canada. Rush-hour congestion is certainly worse in Halifax nowadays, and there are periodic flareups of total gridlock, but the same is true in Toronto. And even in typical conditions, driving from Markham or Brampton or Oakville to downtown Toronto is a much longer proposition than driving from, say, Lower Sackville to downtown Halifax. The transit options are better in Toronto, but trips are often longer than driving, with plenty of transfers, unless you're lucky enough to be right on the GO line.

[Keith P.]

The thing is, unless you are in small sections of Old Toronto, the streets are generally reasonably well-sized. Here or course, you have a single lane in most areas of downtown, with lots of other measures designed to frustrate traffic flow. The good news, of course, is that the bike lanes are always empty.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The thing is, unless you are in small sections of Old Toronto, the streets are generally reasonably well-sized. Here or course, you have a single lane in most areas of downtown, with lots of other measures designed to frustrate traffic flow. The good news, of course, is that the bike lanes are always empty.

There's more traffic-calming in Toronto than there is here, and whether the streets are wide or not, the congestion is worse. I've sat for hours on the DVP and the Gardiner in midday weekend traffic.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

Dartmouth Crossing is probably much less convenient for the average visitor or resident.

It’s a curious choice to me. While I am not a gambler and don’t really care for the casino aspect of things, I have gone there with out of town visitors and they generally have made it part of their downtown night out experience. Dinner, drinks and the casino, for example. Business associates from away want to get lobster and gamble… that sort of thing. Plus I can’t count how many times I’ve been in the pedway and drunk people have asked me how to get to the casino (which also speaks to its relative remoteness on the waterfront).

For me personally, I have attended concerts there, that wouldn’t be practical for a larger venue. In those cases it wouldn’t matter if it were downtown or in DC, as I would still have to drive there. That said, with 2 large parkades (with the Purdy’s parkade virtually empty at night), parking hasn’t been a problem in its current location.

To summarize… a casino in Halifax probably isn’t a major destination, and thus works well in the downtown, where it can be part of a night out, but not the main focus of the excursion. That said, I am not sure how things work out with the Moncton casino as it is off the beaten track, yet seems to remain viable.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

To summarize… a casino in Halifax probably isn’t a major destination, and thus works well in the downtown, where it can be part of a night out, but not the main focus of the excursion. That said, I am not sure how things work out with the Moncton casino as it is off the beaten track, yet seems to remain viable.

Indeed, but Moncton is a very different kind of city, and downtown is not really the focus of energy there in the same way. Everything is much more spread out.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Aren't all the hardcore local gamblers at Jenny's Pub on Lady Hammond? Kidding...sort of. I don't think it can be argued that every activity that can be added to an entertainment district including a casino would add to the whole. However, I'd 'bet' that they well analyzed their audience before making a decision to move. And maybe this is another opportunity for Halifax to build a proper transit hub to make up for the failed opportunity on the Cogswell lands. Little doubt that Dartmouth Crossing and the hotels, shops and restaurants there will be happy to have them.

[IanWatson]

I think the reality of gambling today is that 80% of the profits come from the 20% of the patrons who are harder-core gamblers. They'll go where the gambling is, and if you put it in Darmouth Crossing you can also draw that same demographic from outside the city.

I'm certainly no prude when it comes to gambling, but I honestly don't see what the Casino adds to the waterfront and downtown beyond being a successful venue for a niche of mid-sized music performances (despite the performance space itself being very medicore). Good riddance, I say!

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I don't know; I'm not super-familiar with Montreal, but the sheer size and the increasing constancy of congestion make getting around the GTA the most frustrating urban transportation experience I know of in Canada. Rush-hour congestion is certainly worse in Halifax nowadays, and there are periodic flareups of total gridlock, but the same is true in Toronto. And even in typical conditions, driving from Markham or Brampton or Oakville to downtown Toronto is a much longer proposition than driving from, say, Lower Sackville to downtown Halifax. The transit options are better in Toronto, but trips are often longer than driving, with plenty of transfers, unless you're lucky enough to be right on the GO line.

My impression (though it's been a while since I've dealt with Halifax traffic; I have recently for Toronto/Montreal/Vancouver) is that the density and speed in Halifax are about as bad but the distances you typically have to traverse are shorter. For the casino it would be evenings and weekends for a lot of trips.

Yes these cities have more extensive suburban transit networks but those trips still get prohibitively long quite easily.

Statistics Canada tracks the breakdown of how many people live close or far away in different metros: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220209/t005b-eng.htm

Also worth noting that the downtown and inner population in metro Halifax is growing faster than the outer suburban population. In the data above, the < 20 mins population grew by 30,000 or so during a period when the > 20 min population grew by under 10,000.

[cjones2451]

West Coast Guy here, any updates on the Wanderers Ground and a more permanent stadium? Was wondering with the new CFL rule changes if a shared stadium becomes more of an option although I feel like the CFL capacity needs (even at 18K on the low end) does not work there

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

My impression (though it's been a while since I've dealt with Halifax traffic; I have recently for Toronto/Montreal/Vancouver) is that the density and speed in Halifax are about as bad but the distances you typically have to traverse are shorter.

Pretty much. And on days when gridlock truly gums things up region-wide, you can be crawling across the entire GTA for hours, whereas here it might be one hour.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

There's more traffic-calming in Toronto than there is here, and whether the streets are wide or not, the congestion is worse. I've sat for hours on the DVP and the Gardiner in midday weekend traffic.

Never said it wasn’t, or that the DVP is anything but a disaster. It raises the question of why nothing has been done about it in many decades.