Metro Phoenix Aviation Thread

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

Nice little development here.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/a...rport-new-terminal-timeline/87785315007/

Excellent!! Thank you for sharing this with me. I hope they will start construction in 4 years. Can't wait to open up in 2033! They will have their own international terminal with customs and Immigration. Which airlines will be at new West Terminal? I think Starlux, China Airlines, Aeromexico, Air France and other foreign airlines will be at new West Terminal. British Airways will stays at T4. They still codeshare partners American Airlines.

[phxguy90]

Originally Posted by N830MH

Excellent!! Thank you for sharing this with me. I hope they will start construction in 4 years. Can't wait to open up in 2033! They will have their own international terminal with customs and Immigration. Which airlines will be at new West Terminal? I think Starlux, China Airlines, Aeromexico, Air France and other foreign airlines will be at new West Terminal. British Airways will stays at T4. They still codeshare partners American Airlines.

7 years from now is a long time. Will be interesting to see which international airlines will serve PHX then or if the new terminal will get new airlines into PHX.

Personally, I think between China and Starlux only one will survive. My guess is by 2033, West Terminal will have China Airlines, Air France, AeroMexico, Lufthansa, and maybe Japan Airlines (if JX is not here, if we still have both JX and CI then no JAL).

[TllrSkyline-01]

Originally Posted by N830MH

Excellent!! Thank you for sharing this with me. I hope they will start construction in 4 years. Can't wait to open up in 2033! They will have their own international terminal with customs and Immigration. Which airlines will be at new West Terminal? I think Starlux, China Airlines, Aeromexico, Air France and other foreign airlines will be at new West Terminal. British Airways will stays at T4. They still codeshare partners American Airlines.

Read in Business Journal that American and Southwest will move to new west terminal. They are planning between 40-60 new gates. T4 will be retrofitted for international and other domestic codesharing flights. Not sure why they chose to do it this way.

[ChaseM]

Originally Posted by TllrSkyline-01

Read in Business Journal that American and Southwest will move to new west terminal. They are planning between 40-60 new gates. T4 will be retrofitted for international and other domestic codesharing flights. Not sure why they chose to do it this way.

The way I read it they were discussing which of the two would move to the new terminal, if that’s the case I would hope AA as it would be more conducive to their operations having both narrow and widebody operations.

[BA744PHX]

Originally Posted by TllrSkyline-01

Read in Business Journal that American and Southwest will move to new west terminal. They are planning between 40-60 new gates. T4 will be retrofitted for international and other domestic codesharing flights. Not sure why they chose to do it this way.

Both are not able to move to the new Terminal, Southwest has 32 gates currently, and AA has roughly 53ish gates. Only one of them is able to move.

[ChaseM]

Plus the new terminal will also be FIS capable as well.

[PHX]

I wouldn’t be surprised if we had service from Aer Lingus, KLM, Qatar or Iberia by then. Maybe seasonal flights.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by ChaseM

Plus the new terminal will also be FIS capable as well.

Yes! They will be. They will have FIS gate capable at new terminal. Not sure for what gates number is it. We'll find out soon enough.

Originally Posted by PHX

I wouldn’t be surprised if we had service from Aer Lingus, KLM, Qatar or Iberia by then. Maybe seasonal flights.

I doubt it. We'll see what happens in the future. Nobody knows for sure! If they come to PHX. But Aer Lingus is only US Preclearance from both DUB or SNN, but there is no need to go through customs.

[N830MH]

Here's a link:

https://www.12news.com/article/travel/ph.../75-a7a64f90-d207-4bb6-9522-00c6266d95d5

I'll share the construction photos and I'll believe it when I see it!!!

[xymox]

JSX now has 9 destinations out of Scottsdale Airport. The latest is from SCF -> Santa Monica. Not as economical as a Southwest flight - but for a bit more it's a great option if you live near the airport for shorter regional flights. Wondering how many flights they can manage out of SCF before they hit resistance from the city.

https://www.travelandleisure.com/jsx-adds-new-santa-monica-scottsdale-flights-11873267

[ChaseM]

Originally Posted by PHX

I wouldn’t be surprised if we had service from Aer Lingus, KLM, Qatar or Iberia by then. Maybe seasonal flights.

KLM I could see. Scottsdale just approved the expansion of ASM, which definitely helps a bit. If they move enough cargo, it could warrant the route, especially if there’s strong business demand between PHX-AMS.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by ChaseM

KLM I could see. Scottsdale just approved the expansion of ASM, which definitely helps a bit. If they move enough cargo, it could warrant the route, especially if there’s strong business demand between PHX-AMS.

I doubt it. I think they will be there sometime in the future. We’ll see how it goes on Air France is doing. They will be successful flights. Right now, they reduce the frequency to 3x weekly flights during in winter.

[halicem]

Originally Posted by N830MH

I doubt it. I think they will be there sometime in the future. We’ll see how it goes on Air France is doing. They will be successful flights. Right now, they reduce the frequency to 3x weekly flights during in winter.

I agree.

I would love to have KLM more than Air France (AMS vs CDG) but that's my bias. Since Air France & KLM are one group, and also a part of the metal-neutral joint venture with Delta & Virgin Atlantic where they share revenue & load for any TATL route between North America and Europe, they could potentially switch Air France to KLM.

I don't think we'll see an additional route out of that joint venture group as it's not exactly sold out all the time. The latest data available for load factors is for Q3 2025, and it was an average of 75% load factor for the peak Jul-Sep months with the 5x weekly schedule.

Q2 2025 Apr-Jun: 85%
Q1 2025 Jan-Mar: 71%
Q4 2024 Oct-Dec: 76%

Air France averages 88.8% load factors across their network per their recent filing with North America routes coming in slightly above at 89.4%. Source

Here's the table Source:
Year - Month Carrier Origin Destination Departures Miles Seats Passengers Seat Utilization Payload (lbs) Freight (lbs) Mail (lbs)
2025-09 Compagnie Natl Air France (International) Phoenix, AZ (PHX) Paris, France (CDG) 22 120,604 6,552 5,224 80% 2,214,186 25,348 0
2025-08 Compagnie Natl Air France (International) Phoenix, AZ (PHX) Paris, France (CDG) 21 115,122 6,228 4,845 78% 2,108,025 31,955 0
2025-07 Compagnie Natl Air France (International) Phoenix, AZ (PHX) Paris, France (CDG) 22 120,604 6,936 4,675 67% 2,267,883 31,337 0
2025-06 Compagnie Natl Air France (International) Phoenix, AZ (PHX) Paris, France (CDG) 21 115,122 6,772 6,076 90% 2,192,181 31,447 0
2025-05 Compagnie Natl Air France (International) Phoenix, AZ (PHX) Paris, France (CDG) 22 120,604 7,096 6,397 90% 2,296,802 15,657 0
2025-04 Compagnie Natl Air France (International) Phoenix, AZ (PHX) Paris, France (CDG) 13 71,266 4,180 3,090 74% 1,355,213 21,597 0
2025-03 Compagnie Natl Air France (International) Phoenix, AZ (PHX) Paris, France (CDG) 13 71,266 4,252 3,664 86% 1,244,859 18,049 0
2025-02 Compagnie Natl Air France (International) Phoenix, AZ (PHX) Paris, France (CDG) 12 65,784 3,936 2,329 59% 1,117,195 17,226 0
2025-01 Compagnie Natl Air France (International) Phoenix, AZ (PHX) Paris, France (CDG) 12 65,784 3,936 2,623 67% 1,117,195 23,608 0
2024-12 Compagnie Natl Air France (International) Phoenix, AZ (PHX) Paris, France (CDG) 13 71,266 4,264 3,616 85% 1,210,295 15,897 0
2024-11 Compagnie Natl Air France (International) Phoenix, AZ (PHX) Paris, France (CDG) 13 71,266 4,264 3,007 71% 1,210,295 33,284 0
2024-11 Compagnie Natl Air France (International) Phoenix, AZ (PHX) Paris, France (CDG) 13 71,266 4,264 3,007 71% 1,210,295 33,284 0
2024-10 Compagnie Natl Air France (International) Phoenix, AZ (PHX) Paris, France (CDG) 14 76,748 4,053 3,306 82% 951,628 39,990 0

[ChaseM]

Originally Posted by N830MH

I doubt it. I think they will be there sometime in the future. We’ll see how it goes on Air France is doing. They will be successful flights. Right now, they reduce the frequency to 3x weekly flights during in winter.

I agree, and I should’ve clarified this earlier, I see KLM starting PHX service in a few years, not anytime soon. As long as the Valley keeps attracting new businesses, especially from Europe, the case only gets stronger.

At the end of the day, airport leadership can only do so much to attract international routes as the real driver is local and state leadership convincing global companies to invest and set up shop here in the valley. ASM definitely helps move the needle for potential service to AMS, just like how TSMC helped pave the way for Air France, China Airlines, and Starlux. If that momentum continues, KLM feels more like a “when,” not an “if.”

[azliam]

Starlux Airlines launches service to Phoenix

Ceremony in TPE, in which Mayor Kate was in attendance:

• Video Link


Landing in PHX at about 3hr 47m mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3yxIenY_-U

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by azliam

Starlux Airlines launches service to Phoenix

Ceremony in TPE, in which Mayor Kate was in attendance:

• Video Link


Landing in PHX at about 3hr 47m mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3yxIenY_-U

I flew back from Japan this week and flew Starlux through Taipei. Great experience all things considered and would not hesitate to use them again. Only wish I could have gotten out of the airport in Taipei.

[PHX]

How full was your flight?

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by PHX

How full was your flight?

Packed! The woman next to me said her flight out of Phoenix the week previous was pretty empty, but my flight on a Sunday was full.

[ASU Diablo]

https://azbex.com/local-news/phoenix-aviation-presents-sky-harbor-west-terminal-update/

Enabling Projects

“There is no such thing as a greenfield project at Sky Harbor,” quipped Malik. To that end, a long list of enabling projects must be carefully planned and sequenced to make room for the West Terminal. Some of the projects mentioned include:

• New Facilities Complex
• T2 EDS/Baggage Handling/PD
• Terminal Radar Approach Control, also known as TRACON
• Cargo Developments – existing privately owned facilities on airport land must be redeveloped elsewhere and tenants must be moved
• Executive Terminal
• Build Parking that will be displaced
• Demolish T2 West Economy Parking Garage
• Relocate EDS
• Swissport Fueling Station

These enabling projects are currently being sequenced and procured, with completion required before the West Terminal can begin construction.

Accelerated Schedule – Construction May Start in 2029

In December 2025, the Federal Aviation Authority announced PSHIA did not need to prepare another Environmental Impact Statement before moving into planning for the new terminal building. Instead, FAA determined the EIS from 2006 had sufficient detail and was acceptable to move forward with the West Terminal project. That decision accelerated the overall program’s schedule by approximately three years: a 2032 construction timeline has been moved up to 2029.

The project began planning activities in earnest last month and is expected to have a planning initiative called a Program Definition Document completed by the end of the year. That PDD will set the basis for design, and procurement of a prime design firm is expected in 2027. A contractor is also expected to be selected in 2027, although Malik said there is no decision yet on the contract method of delivery—whether it will be CMAR, Design-Build, or Progressive Design-Build. Malik said such a large program will require intensive coordination, implying that a low bid was not currently being considered.

Malik concluded his presentation by noting the effect this program will have on the area. He described it as “impactful,” having regional significance, and said it will be an asset that serves the community for the next 40-50 years.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

https://azbex.com/local-news/phoenix-aviation-presents-sky-harbor-west-terminal-update/

Wow! I will miss old T2 west economy parking garage. I'll share a photos. When I see it. I'll post it on the forums.