Hwy 99 Fraser River Tunnel (George Massey Replacement) | Proposed

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The NDP always underbuilds infrastructure. Though realistically how many cyclists use that area other than lycrabros out for their weekend Tour de France cosplay?

Yeah, but this is an especially terrible and weak design, especially considering the previous design that was cancelled.

Like, many of BC’s half built projects can at least be improved and expanded upon later, but this would require an entirely new rebuild again when a real improvement is finally done.

[Vantage]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The NDP always underbuilds infrastructure. Though realistically how many cyclists use that area other than lycrabros out for their weekend Tour de France cosplay?

It's not "cosplay". It's no different than wearing pads to play hockey, runners when you're running, or goggles when skiing. It's an article of clothing that makes doing the sport more comfortable. Try riding over 50km without padded shorts and you'll be in far more pain than if you did.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Vantage

It's not "cosplay". It's no different than wearing pads to play hockey, runners when you're running, or goggles when skiing. It's an article of clothing that makes doing the sport more comfortable. Try riding over 50km without padded shorts and you'll be in far more pain than if you did.

I absolutely love what Australians call them: MAMILs. Middle-Aged Men In Lycra!

It's either cosplay or performance theatre. Take your pick.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by s211

I absolutely love what Australians call them: MAMILs. Middle-Aged Men In Lycra!

It's either cosplay or performance theatre. Take your pick.

All these passive aggressive posts don’t contribute to the forum, this isn’t your personal blog.

[seamusmcduff]

Originally Posted by s211

I absolutely love what Australians call them: MAMILs. Middle-Aged Men In Lycra!

It's either cosplay or performance theatre. Take your pick.

Someone hasn't ridden a bike for over an hour I take it

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Vantage

It's not "cosplay". It's no different than wearing pads to play hockey, runners when you're running, or goggles when skiing. It's an article of clothing that makes doing the sport more comfortable. Try riding over 50km without padded shorts and you'll be in far more pain than if you did.

My point being that including bike lanes in this whole underwhelming project is really just for a small group of hardcore cyclists not the average person. A perfect accompaniment to the bike boondoggle Richmond built along Steveston Highway recently.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Good thing there's also dedicated bus lanes, for the average person.

[Lexus]

Originally Posted by s211

I absolutely love what Australians call them: MAMILs. Middle-Aged Men In Lycra!

It's either cosplay or performance theatre. Take your pick.

Not sure what cyclists did to you, but approximately 95% of all photos posted on this forum I’ve taken while I was riding my road or gravel bike… just saying…

[s211]

Originally Posted by seamusmcduff

Someone hasn't ridden a bike for over an hour I take it

For the record, I own and ride three different kinds of bikes, none of which are e-bikes just so we're clear. Transit is my foremost means of travel, and I rarely drive a lot these days.

Gawd there's some wildly over-sensitive people on this forum.

[idunno]

I love the new Steveston Multi Use Path! I'll definitely use it to get to this new tunnel (+ tunnel pathway) some day.

[Vantage]

I'm just tired of seeing the "cosplaying cyclist" trope being thrown around all the time (not necessarily on this forum) and had to call it out. I have commuted to the ferry terminal by bike a handful of times when I lived in the CoV and chose to detour to the Alex Fraser to avoid the bike shuttle through the tunnel. Had it been possible to bike through the tunnel, I would've. I doubt we will see groundbreaking ridership through the tunnel, but I think you are underestimating it a bit.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by idunno

I love the new Steveston Multi Use Path! I'll definitely use it to get to this new tunnel (+ tunnel pathway) some day.

Yeah I can't wait to walk all the way from Downtown Vancouver to Ladner Village and crossing the Fraser via both the Oak Street Bridge and whatever new Deas Island crossing is built.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Yeah I can't wait to walk all the way from Downtown Vancouver to Ladner Village and crossing the Fraser via both the Oak Street Bridge and whatever new Deas Island crossing is built.

There's already the Cambie St. / Canada Line Bridge ped x-ing, if you're being facetious.

[Henbo]

Originally Posted by whatnext

My point being that including bike lanes in this whole underwhelming project is really just for a small group of hardcore cyclists not the average person. A perfect accompaniment to the bike boondoggle Richmond built along Steveston Highway recently.

I actually do think WhatNext has a point

How many cyclists will use the project per day? What is the benefit of adding this infrastructure vs the cost of it, compared to other investments.

For example, the False Creek bridges have a ton of origins and destinations within 5 km (the optimal distance for cycling). Investing in cycling infrastructure on bridges such as those likely achieves much better value.

I don't think we do a good enough job of measuring and scrutinizing the extent to which we are achieving benefits on projects, versus just accommodating certain needs or desires cited in engagement

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Henbo

I actually do think WhatNext has a point

How many cyclists will use the project per day? What is the benefit of adding this infrastructure vs the cost of it, compared to other investments.

For example, the False Creek bridges have a ton of origins and destinations within 5 km (the optimal distance for cycling). Investing in cycling infrastructure on bridges such as those likely achieves much better value.

I don't think we do a good enough job of measuring and scrutinizing the extent to which we are achieving benefits on projects, versus just accommodating certain needs or desires cited in engagement


How may cyclists will there be?

It's a chicken and egg problem, and a bit of a silly point.

The marginal cost of having a bikeway in the tunnel is likely not that large. There likely needs to be a an emergency exit path that's not a roadway. Fire code and exiting requirements and considerably stricter than they used to be when the original tunnel was built.

Ventilation requirements are also likely stricter than previously. There may need to be ventilation openings in the tunnel cross section as well, for things like forced air or exhaust ventilation. If they don't need to be the full height of the box, then there's likely space for a pedestrian/bike sized opening.

For the demand side, if you prohibit a type of user then you have no idea if there was latent demand. Massey is one of the only crossings around that doesn't have a sidewalk, and is in ideal terrain for cyclists. I've on various occasions crossed most of the regional bridges by bike, and I'm hardly a hardcore cyclist. If it was an option to cycle to the ferry without a huge detour I might go for it.

This is like people complaining that there was no demand for a product that hasn't existed previously. Right now, only the dumbest of users would try to cross it on a bike or scooter, but it still has happened. There's probably some demand there.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

There's already the Cambie St. / Canada Line Bridge ped x-ing, if you're being facetious.

Yeah but a gang of crackheads have set up camp along the pathway

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

It's a chicken and egg problem, and a bit of a silly point.

The marginal cost of having a bikeway in the tunnel is likely not that large. There likely needs to be a an emergency exit path that's not a roadway. Fire code and exiting requirements and considerably stricter than they used to be when the original tunnel was built.

Ventilation requirements are also likely stricter than previously. There may need to be ventilation openings in the tunnel cross section as well, for things like forced air or exhaust ventilation. If they don't need to be the full height of the box, then there's likely space for a pedestrian/bike sized opening.

For the demand side, if you prohibit a type of user then you have no idea if there was latent demand. Massey is one of the only crossings around that doesn't have a sidewalk, and is in ideal terrain for cyclists. I've on various occasions crossed most of the regional bridges by bike, and I'm hardly a hardcore cyclist. If it was an option to cycle to the ferry without a huge detour I might go for it.

This is like people complaining that there was no demand for a product that hasn't existed previously. Right now, only the dumbest of users would try to cross it on a bike or scooter, but it still has happened. There's probably some demand there.

Or maybe we could do something like a bus stop on the Delta side of the river so a cyclist can put their bike on the rack, go through the tunnel, and hop back on their bike. Should be frequent enough that we can do without a bike lane.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Or maybe we could do something like a bus stop on the Delta side of the river so a cyclist can put their bike on the rack, go through the tunnel, and hop back on their bike. Should be frequent enough that we can do without a bike lane.

Why do you think that is a better solution? It would be very inconvenient and take longer to travel thus dissuading use.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

It's a chicken and egg problem, and a bit of a silly point.

The marginal cost of having a bikeway in the tunnel is likely not that large.

I have to second this. The cost of adding bike / multi use pathways to new infrastructure is pennies on the dollar - trying to add it after the fact costs more. We should be cheering any time they include these new paths alongside roads as it increases 'active transportation' and reduces short trips by car, making it easier for drivers.

Btw CoV still isn't the center of the universe. Other areas of Metro Van should be able to get upgrades without people complaining about it happening outside of the CoV.

[RedArbutus]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Or maybe we could do something like a bus stop on the Delta side of the river so a cyclist can put their bike on the rack, go through the tunnel, and hop back on their bike. Should be frequent enough that we can do without a bike lane.

That already exists in the form of the bike shuttle, and it's pretty inefficient!