The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Denny Cogswell, Fundy Shores mayor, posted this on Facebook directed to MLA Ian Lee and MP John Williamson:

Few meetings today and lots of discussions around our energy file.

I believe fundy shores needs to be at the table regarding nuclear, we have asked for months. Fundy shores for 40 years has held the social license and safety infrastructure in place for nuclear. Our region and province needs energy long term and a candu, small modular reactors can provide that stability . We need politicians at all levels with vision to start making long term investments . Discussions have been had for far to long, now is the time for action.

Why or what can be done to have medical isotopes produced and/or processed within fundy shores. We can (i believe) meet a global demand and become a first world class production facility!

Why has fundy shores not been brought into discussions? We need to be on a level playing field .

Saw that too, even though I don’t follow him. I believe the post was also directed at Susan Holt.

My question is, why is the Fundy Shores area not considered part of the Saint John Region when St. Martins is? It’s all part of Saint John County…


I hope the mayor get his wish, as this type of development would be quite important to the Saint John Region’s economy and NB economy as a whole.

If it does get built, I hope they mostly YSJ for their shipments, as our airport certainly needs the boost.

[JakeNB]

Fat chance of getting Williamson to participate in any kind of cooperative effort. He is a total partisan who can only see things through a partisan political lens. He has joined the Lorneville folks in opposition to the industrial park, because he sees a few votes in it for him. He will wait to see which way the wind is blowing on this before he takes a stand.

[casper]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

According to a knowledgeable poster on the main Canada forum, Casper, P. Lepreau is the most likely location for the medical radioisotope reactor, but “The hot cells could go out by the airport. That would be similar to what use to exist in Ottawa [in conjunction with the Chalk River reactor]”.

Not a part of the form I normally visit, but you are having an interesting discussion..... so I will drop in for a visit.....

Key difference between what these guys are proposing and Chalk River, is they are using lightly enriched uranium (LEU) while the Chalk River process was using highly enriched uranium (HEU). LEU is commonly used in civilian power and research programs the world over. Access to HEU it tightly controlled and these days not found in civilian applications.

If I were planning this out I would put the reactor at P. Lepreau and the hot cells near the Moncton airport but it could go at another airport. What you want is consistent connections into the major cargo hubs.

While the hot cells are a licensed facility it is far easier to get that through the process than the reactor.

If these guys do build two reactors one in NB and the other in New Mexico, they will likely secure the vast majority of the world market. Hospitals want a supplier that consistently deliver generators every Monday morning and not miss a week here or there due to down time. That would let the two reactors and processing facility cover for each other during maintenance periods. The domestic market is relatively small, the US, Europe and Asia would be the main markets.

The other sources of this in the world are side programs off of research reactors or power reactors. While the owners of these reactors are doing it because its the right thing to do, its not their core mission and a distraction. Given the choice I suspect they would be just as happy not doing it.

Darlington is a CANDU 9 and there are some tubes through the core of the reactor that were put in the design to run instrumentation to validate the reactor physics models and potentially use in commissioning. They are not used in normal operation. Someone came up with the idea of using them for a medical Mo-99 program. While OPG is happy to contribute to society and public health by supporting the program, they would probably be cool with that being on someone else's reactor and then they can optimize their operation around electricity production.

The other sources in the world are research reactors that just happen to have the right flux characteristics so this can be one of the programs on the reactor it is far from their main reason for being.

[Taeolas]

I suspect their ultimate plans will be to have the reactor at Lepreau, but shipping will go through Moncton.

YFC and YSJ would be backup airports in case YQM gets snowed in.

I don't see YSJ having the cargo capabilities to handle their demands, especially with weather issues possibly causing delays; it would need more upgrades (which their new CEO is hopefully pushing for). YQM is already a significant cargo hub, and YFC tends to avoid the Fundy-weather that can bog down Moncton and Saint Joh, so it would be an ideal secondary airport.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

I suspect their ultimate plans will be to have the reactor at Lepreau, but shipping will go through Moncton.

YFC and YSJ would be backup airports in case YQM gets snowed in.

I don't see YSJ having the cargo capabilities to handle their demands, especially with weather issues possibly causing delays; it would need more upgrades (which their new CEO is hopefully pushing for). YQM is already a significant cargo hub, and YFC tends to avoid the Fundy-weather that can bog down Moncton and Saint Joh, so it would be an ideal secondary airport.

I don't know the first thing about medical isotope production and transport, but is an hour/90 minutes drive time really a barrier worth getting a second permitted nuclear site approved for? Doing it all at Lepreau and flying from whichever of 3 airports works best seems the most efficient.

[MonctonRad]

Regarding air cargo services at YQM:

https://cyqm.ca/cargo-services/#

Main operators are Fed Ex, UPS and CargoJet. There are at least two daily dedicated air cargo flights out of YQM, with others on an on demand basis (including widebodies for live lobster shipment).

The whole southern flank of the airport property is dedicated to cargo services (except for the flight college, airport services like the control tower and the Transport Canada hangar.

We have oodles of experience in handling air freight (over 22,000 tonnes annually, and 1400 flights per year.

YQM is typically on the list of one of the top 10 airports for air cargo in Canada

Why reinvent the wheel?

[bingun]

Yeah, as much as I would take any excuse to boost YSJ, YQM makes a lot of sense from a logistics point of view.

Regardless, building the reactor itself at Point Lepreau is still a win for the Saint John region. A lot of the skilled, well-paid employees who work there currently live in Saint John or the surrounding suburbs and commute, and this will further boost that.

Let's hope this one comes to fruition and doesn't fall through.

[Taeolas]

From what I understand, a 90 minute road trip from Reactor to Cargo Hub would be an improvement from the Chalk River situation (which was about 2hours from Ottawa Airport). So having YQM be the primary hub would make sense as the shippers are already there.

It would be a good carrot for YSJ's airport authority to focus on cargo services as well, with a goal to eventually get some/most of that shipping business; but for the initial proposal, a Lepreau-YQM combo makes the most sense, with YFC and YSJ being their secondary airports in case weather shuts down YQM.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

From what I understand, a 90 minute road trip from Reactor to Cargo Hub would be an improvement from the Chalk River situation (which was about 2hours from Ottawa Airport). So having YQM be the primary hub would make sense as the shippers are already there.

It would be a good carrot for YSJ's airport authority to focus on cargo services as well, with a goal to eventually get some/most of that shipping business; but for the initial proposal, a Lepreau-YQM combo makes the most sense, with YFC and YSJ being their secondary airports in case weather shuts down YQM.

I would look at a Lepreau-YQM arrangement as being a win for New Brunswick as a whole. Just like the joint Canada Games bid, the more we work together between Moncton and Saint John, the better off the province will be.

The bigger question that someone else brought up is why we don't have Lepreau in the Saint John [Fundy] region officially. From my understanding, when the recent local governance reforms were being implemented and the LSDs dissolved into new municipalities and rural districts, the changes would have included Lepreau with Musquash, which was part of the Fundy Region before 2023. Since Musquash became part of Fundy Shores, if that municipality were to have been part of the Fundy Region, it would have meant that the Southwest region would lose something like $300+ million in property assessments. Politically that wasn't going to happen, so they cut everything west of Musquash out of the Fundy/SJ Region, even though it is clearly a part of the metro SJ area based on commuting patterns and economic impact (and emergency response).

[casper]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

I don't know the first thing about medical isotope production and transport, but is an hour/90 minutes drive time really a barrier worth getting a second permitted nuclear site approved for? Doing it all at Lepreau and flying from whichever of 3 airports works best seems the most efficient.

For this type of isotope (Mo-99), the 90 minutes trip is not a major addition. It will come off the reactor, spend several hours being processed and packaged in the hot cells and then come out be labelled/boxed and taken over to the cargo terminal/aircraft.

Once it is handed off to the airlines, it still has a long journey, it is going to need to make connections in the hubs to both domestic and international flights. What is more import is it consistently makes those connections, otherwise you have the potential that hospitals need to cancel procedures.

The product has a half-life of 66 hours. That means every 66 hours the amount of Mo-99 you have in the generator goes down by 50%. Ideal world it arrives at the end hospitals first thing Monday morning and they use it over the week. The generator does not go bad, it is just less productive as it ages.

[cdnguys]

YSJ will be able to handle this whether commercial flights or cargo. We’re not talking massive pallets and AC cargo operates at the airport. YSJ was upgraded with side and centre line lighting a few years back for safe landing in inclement weather. For all we know - it may be just as important that Lepreau is 45 minutes by four lane highway to USA border and 7 hours to Boston and 11 to NYC.

[casper]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

YSJ will be able to handle this whether commercial flights or cargo. We’re not talking massive pallets and AC cargo operates at the airport. YSJ was upgraded with side and centre line lighting a few years back for safe landing in inclement weather. For all we know - it may be just as important that Lepreau is 45 minutes by four lane highway to USA border and 7 hours to Boston and 11 to NYC.

I don't know the specific flow today. In the 90s when I was involved with Chalk River, I believe a lot of the product out of Ottawa would transit through Boston off to its final destination.

Your talking a couple of pallets. The generator is relatively small but it is shipped in a carboard box that is lined with lead.

[paperplane]

As a former Nuclear Medicine Technologist, the Monday morning consistency is absolutely key to things working smoothly.

As has been said by many others, Lepreau is the only place that makes sense for licensing, social license, expertise, etc., so no idea why the article was so vague on location. In terms of airport, assume YQM and YSJ.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by paperplane

As a former Nuclear Medicine Technologist, the Monday morning consistency is absolutely key to things working smoothly.

As has been said by many others, Lepreau is the only place that makes sense for licensing, social license, expertise, etc., so no idea why the article was so vague on location. In terms of airport, assume YQM and YSJ.

Wow, lots of nuclear people coming out of the woodwork.

I agree the generators are not large. The main point with YQM is that we have at least 2x daily air courier service via Fed-Ex and CargoJet already. It would not be difficult to load these generators on these already scheduled aircraft. It might not make economic sense to schedule an entirely new service to YSJ for the generators when the total cargo load would not come anywhere near filling the aircraft.

[casper]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Wow, lots of nuclear people coming out of the woodwork.

I agree the generators are not large. The main point with YQM is that we have at least 2x daily air courier service via Fed-Ex and CargoJet already. It would not be difficult to load these generators on these already scheduled aircraft. It might not make economic sense to schedule an entirely new service to YSJ for the generators when the total cargo load would not come anywhere near filling the aircraft.

FedEx and CargoJet are licensed to handle nuclear material as cargo. The packaging is such that it can go on a passenger flight as well. Air Canada is also licensed to handle this type of product. For whatever reason WestJet never had this setup.

Key thing to keep in mind is when Chalk River was producing this it was a priority for Chalk River. Maintenance windows and science programs on the NRU reactor would be planned around the Molly program, it had priority. When that happened 80% of the world supply was coming from there. If these guys are dedicated to just isotopes I could see them winning that back.

That would mean around 40% of the globally shipments most weeks, surging to 80% when New Mexico is down.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by casper

FedEx and CargoJet are licensed to handle nuclear material as cargo. The packaging is such that it can go on a passenger flight as well. Air Canada is also licensed to handle this type of product. For whatever reason WestJet never had this setup.

Key thing to keep in mind is when Chalk River was producing this it was a priority for Chalk River. Maintenance windows and science programs on the NRU reactor would be planned around the Molly program, it had priority. When that happened 80% of the world supply was coming from there. If these guys are dedicated to just isotopes I could see them winning that back.

That would mean around 40% of the globally shipments most weeks, surging to 80% when New Mexico is down.

Interesting. Air Canada Cargo already operates out of YSJ. Considering the cost of transporting to YQM, it would not seem to make fiscal sense to drive it up the road.

With all of the growth at the port and potential new distribution centers, it would seem the time is right for YSJ to invest into the cargo side of operations.

[irisheyes]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

Interesting. Air Canada Cargo already operates out of YSJ. Considering the cost of transporting to YQM, it would not seem to make fiscal sense to drive it up the road.

With all of the growth at the port and potential new distribution centers, it would seem the time is right for YSJ to invest into the cargo side of operations.

YSJ has land earmarked for cargo development already as well. With the right business case I can't imagine it would take long to erect a proper facility.

[dhottawa729]

Originally Posted by irisheyes

YSJ has land earmarked for cargo development already as well. With the right business case I can't imagine it would take long to erect a proper facility.

A 3000m runway would be needed for Cargo as well as A220 jets, but the terminal is a bit too small to handle a few large aircraft simultaneously so ATB expansion should also be a priority while passenger volumes are relatively low as to minimize disruption. Waiting until business picks up to do large-scale construction will simply scare off the new passengers that they work so hard to bring in.

[sailor734]

I've always understood that topography would make it very difficult/expensive to extend runways at YJS. Anyone know if this is true? (AI seems to think so)

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

A 3000m runway would be needed for Cargo as well as A220 jets, but the terminal is a bit too small to handle a few large aircraft simultaneously so ATB expansion should also be a priority while passenger volumes are relatively low as to minimize disruption. Waiting until business picks up to do large-scale construction will simply scare off the new passengers that they work so hard to bring in.

A220? In the summer time YSJ consistently had A220; A319; A320; A321 and Max 8 service to Toronto.