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  #1  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2025, 7:13 AM
kittyhawk28 kittyhawk28 is offline
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Peculiarities of Defining US Cities based on UN Definition of Urban Area

The UN defines an urban area, or urban center, as a contiguous built-up area with population densities >= 1,500 pp/km^2, while the US Census Bureau defines a contiguous urban area with a population density threshold of just 193 pp/km^2 (or 500 pp/sq. mi.). Alot of American low-density suburban or exurban development would in other countries count as verging on semi-rural/countryside, and definitively would not be considered urban in most countries (e.g. US Census Bureau's urban density threshold would merge much of Southern and Central England, or the entire Tokyo-Nagoya-Osaka corridor of Japan, as one single urban area, which is silly).

Instead, I have ranked and mapped 6 of the largest US urban areas with populations > 4 million based on the UN threshold, with data and maps collected from the UN GHSL Database website: https://human-settlement.emergency.copernicus.eu/ucdb2024visual.php

All cities are shown at the same 50 km scale.

The next 4 largest cities after are:
7. Washington DC - 3.471 million people (2,669 pp/km^2)
8. Phoenix - 2.608 million people (2,001 pp/km^2)
9. Dallas - 2.577 million people (2,084 pp/km^2)
10. Denver - 2.425 million people (2,031 pp/km^2)

Ultimately the density standard seems to work very well for the most part, but there are strange distortions due to how strict the definition is with small gaps in development (which is why Dallas is chopped up into 4-5 different pieces, or Phoenix split into two by a wide river, making them seem smaller than they otherwise are).

Additionally, the UN definition of urban areas favors western sunbelt cities and South Florida where medium-density development patterns are more consistent deep into suburbs, and disfavors southern and eastern cities where urban development peters out into very low density suburbs, which is why you get unexpected results like Miami having more people than Chicago, or NYC and LA coming in neck and neck in population.

Last edited by kittyhawk28; Dec 9, 2025 at 7:36 AM.
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  #2  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2025, 12:10 PM
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I loved it! Could you bring more, the Top 20, 30?
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  #3  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2025, 1:22 PM
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Steely Dan Steely Dan is offline
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500 ppsm is way too low.

3,885 ppsm is way too high.

The old CB standard of 1,000 ppsm was goldilocks.


And the small gap rule spilting phoenix and others into multiple urban areas is very, very silly.

When things don't pass the sniff test........
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Dec 9, 2025 at 1:52 PM.
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Old Posted Dec 9, 2025, 1:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
500 ppsm is way too low.

3,885 ppsm is way too high.

The old CB standard of 1,000 ppsm was goldilocks.


And the small gap rule spilting phoenix and others into multiple urban areas is very, very silly.
I think 1,500 inh/km2 is too low not only for the US but for anywhere in the world. I guess only in very specific areas, like in the Ganges Valley, the area between Yangtze and Yellow rivers and Java, we'll find (small) pockets of rural density at this level. Everywhere else it's definitely urban/suburban.
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Old Posted Dec 9, 2025, 3:00 PM
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The Nordic definition of urban area is a bit different and would be even more fun in some places than the US one. At least 200 inhabitants, and buildings no more than 200 meters apart. That last bit would make for some pretty darn big cities in South & East Asia.


IMO both a global standard way to count this and a local/national way of counting make sense. Both should be used.
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Old Posted Dec 9, 2025, 3:18 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Doesn't the US census bureau now use housing unit density instead of population density?
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  #7  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2025, 4:34 PM
mhays mhays is offline
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I'd suggest 2,000/sm, at least as an alternate version.
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Old Posted Dec 9, 2025, 4:49 PM
New Brisavoine New Brisavoine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swede View Post
The Nordic definition of urban area is a bit different and would be even more fun in some places than the US one. At least 200 inhabitants, and buildings no more than 200 meters apart. That last bit would make for some pretty darn big cities in South & East Asia.
That's not the Nordic definition of urban areas. That's the UN definition of urban areas (until last year). Now the UN have changed their definition. Both definitions are problematic. The former one led to crazy urban areas like Cairo-Alexandria, or Guangzhou-Hong Kong, while the new definition leads to crazy results like LA at only 13 million, or Paris not even a megacity anymore.

That's why the concept of urban area has become largely obsolete with sprawl now. What makes sense is the concept of metro areas, and for that there exists only one international definition of metro areas, the FUA (functional urban area) used by OECD and Eurostat.

In the Nordic countries, the largest FUAs in 2023 were:
- Stockholm: 2,440,000 inh.
- Copenhagen: 2,175,000
- Oslo: 1,651,000
- Helsinki: 1,571,000
- Göteborg: 1,081,000
- Malmö: 714,000
- Aarhus: 544,000
- Tampere: 463,000
- Bergen: 429,000
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  #9  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2025, 5:11 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
I'd suggest 2,000/sm, at least as an alternate version.
This would pop some Rust Belt municipalities out of metro areas. East St. Louis only has a density of 1,326.9/sq mi., for instance.
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  #10  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2025, 5:19 PM
mhays mhays is offline
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Only on the edges of UAs if I understand correctly...if you're in the middle it's more about averages or something like that.

Also, it's not municipalities but more like census tracts. For example Denver's airport isn't in its UA iirc.
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  #11  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2025, 6:21 PM
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I don't know about the other cities but that Houston map is off. I live in the city limits but doesn't show my neighborhood in the UA and is labeled incorrectly.
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