What Is The Weather Today II (No Mercury Jockeying)

[Zepfancouver]

Originally Posted by zoomer

By the way - if you're in Vancouver we have a Christmas special for SSP members:



Thanks for the photo Metro-One

zoomer, I'm not sure if you are joking on that Christmas special for SSP members
if I asked for that SkyscraperPage offer at Zoomers is the response going to be "Hey buddy, I think you are skyscraping enough already, go home and sleep it off"

[Nicko999]

-9C with a wind chill of -17 and mainly cloudy thisafternoon. Craziness. It's -14C right now and the wind chill is -24. I cannot believe what I am seeing.

It was 1C last night.

The warmspot was Cumshewa Island, BC at 10.1C.

Warmest low was Cape St. James, BC at 8.4C.

[Metro-One]

The talk about the freeze list and the variations between official airports and city propers made me look up all the weather stations in and around Victoria.

And yep, the Airport is the only one to have frozen so far, -0.4 about two weeks ago (this is still its only freeze for the season.)

But then you look at all the other stations' lowest temps so far:

Victoria University: 0.8
Victoria Harbour: 1.8
Esquimalt Harbour: 2.4
Victoria Gonzales: 4.0

[Calgarian]

Any place that hasn't had a freeze by December is unCanadian!

Question for those in Vancouver and Victoria, do you like not having snow at Christmas? I get the appeal of a mild winter, but Christmas is one time when you want the snow, especially with all the lights! I remember a friend taking me to a house in Langley that's famous for the Christmas display and it was just wasn't the same with green grass and no snow. The second night I saw it there was some fog, so that was better, but still not the same...

Originally Posted by Tancredi

A question to everyone

In the notes of this link indicated by someone123
https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-cli.../historical-christmas-snowfall-data.html

it says; 'Perfect Christmas: snow on the ground of 2 cm or more on Christmas morning and snow in the air sometime Christmas day, i.e., a measurable snowfall on Christmas based on period 1955-2007'. Can you explain the exact meaning? I didn't understand some aspects: 1) To be indicated as a 'Perfect Christmas', must Christmas day have both a snow accumulation of at least 2 cm on the ground and snowfall during the same day? 2) If there is at least 2 cm of snow on the ground on Christmas Day but it doesn't snow (meaning the 2 cm fell in the days before Christmas), is it not considered a 'Perfect Christmas'? 3) If it snows on Christmas Day and there is snow on the ground but less than 2 cm, is it not considered a 'Perfect Christmas'? 4) So, to give an example, considering that in the period 1955-2007 Ottawa recorded 35% of years with snow, does this mean that these are all years in which on Christmas Day: 1) There was snowfall 2) There was at least 2 cm of snow on the ground. Is this correct or is there something I didn't understand (also because I may not grasp the nuances in the English language)?

To me, Christmas should have enough snow to cover the ground and maybe pile up a bit on fences and bushes and whatever (2cm seems like a good number), and it should also be snowing outside, preferably nice big snowflakes (which means it's relatively warm, somewhere between 0 and -5). In Calgary, the weather is all over the place, we are almost as likely to have a brown Christmas as a white one. I'll be in Banff this weekend, nothing better than the mountains at Christmas with a good blanket of snow!

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Question for those in Vancouver and Victoria, do you like not having snow at Christmas? I get the appeal of a mild winter, but Christmas is one time when you want the snow, especially with all the lights! I remember a friend taking me to a house in Langley that's famous for the Christmas display and it was just wasn't the same with green grass and no snow. The second night I saw it there was some fog, so that was better, but still not the same...

FWIW, I don't really think of it as a bragging rights thing. It just.. is what it is. I'd pick a sunny snowy day if possible over rain on Christmas. Not a snow storm, but maybe a few cm overnight and then -1 for the day with full sun would be the ideal.

The worst Vancouver weather aspect isn't cold, it's darkness and dreariness which can feel unrelenting around this time of year. The snow actually can help with that.

It's also annoying as zoomer mentioned that we've been seemingly having late cold winter weather like arctic outflows in February. I'd rather have cold weather around Christmas; by February I am done with any desire for cold or snow.

I once heard somebody who had lived around the US including California say his favourite climate was someplace in West Virginia because of the mix of seasons, including typically some snow, but not a long winter.

[zoomer]

Originally Posted by Zepfancouver

zoomer, I'm not sure if you are joking on that Christmas special for SSP members
if I asked for that SkyscraperPage offer at Zoomers is the response going to be "Hey buddy, I think you are skyscraping enough already, go home and sleep it off"

Haha, yah I heard back from my staff and they did brush you off but only because they were afraid you'd plant a live cam in the shop and stream it 24/7.

As for Christmas snow, sure it would be cool, no doubt about it, but only for that day. Someone's description sounds like the ideal day. To be fair it's always a bit exciting when the flakes fly and we all text each other in the family to see if it's snowing in their neighbourhood and people are posting pics and video on social media. But I don't like the cold even though it usually falls when the temps are within a few degrees either way of zero. I also don't have winter boots/shoes or a winter jacket so it's just a hassle I'd rather not deal with.

[mcminsen]

Okay, time for an update on the banana trees of Vancouver.

Specifically a few on the downtown peninsula. No hard freeze yet and some are looking
a bit dog eared but they're hanging in there. Their days are probably numbered, though
as the last half of December is looking to be pretty frosty.

Overcast, drizzly, damp, chilly. Thursday's high at Vancouver Harbour was 7 C, the low was 6 C.







West End, Downtown Vancouver, Dec.4 '25, my pics


...

...



...

[Zepfancouver]

The word in that last image from mcminsen is not how the folks in Montreal are feeling at the moment. No dancing bananas there.
Spoke to my sister a couple of hours ago and she is not happy, she heats her home with oil and a fireplace, which both are costing the budget to break.

In Montreal right now Clear Sky -16 °C Feels like -24 °C


https://www.myearthcam.com/sylpare

[Loco101]

Woke up to -26 C this morning with a -37 windchill.

The high today was only -19 C. And still a couple of weeks until Winter begins.

On the plus side, it was the first sunny day we've had in Timmins in a very long time.

[Tancredi]

Originally Posted by someone123

They have 2 levels

White Christmas: >= 2 cm of snow on ground at 7 a.m.
Perfect Christmas: White Christmas + some new snow falls on Christmas Day

If it's neither of these it's a "Green Christmas" (might be more accurate to call this a "Brown Christmas" or "Grey Christmas"... ).

Thank you for the answer, but I don't understand the reference to 7 a.m.; so if the snow is on the ground on Christmas Day before or after 7 a.m. but not exactly at 7 a.m., is it not a 'White Christmas'?

I asked the AI ​​for clarification and this is their response

"Explanation of the 7 a.m. Reference You've raised an excellent point regarding the exact time of measurement. Your confusion is understandable, as the phrase "snow on the ground of 2 cm or more on Christmas morning" has been formalized by the meteorological service to ensure the consistency of historical data.In meteorological services like Environment Canada, standardized measurements, especially those of snow accumulation on the ground, occur at fixed times: Data Standardization: To be able to compare data year after year and station by station, it is necessary to establish a universal observation time. The chosen time (or one of the standard times) is often set at 07:00 local time (7 a.m.) because it coincides with the start of the diurnal shift or the time when the meteorological station conducts its official readings. The Measurement Criterion: To be counted as a "White Christmas" (≥ of snow on the ground), the data must be confirmed during the official observation at 7 a.m. Therefore, your deduction is technically correct according to the rule: If the snow was present at 6:59 a.m. (and then melts) or arrives at 7:01 a.m. (it wasn't present at the time of the reading), it will not be recorded as snow present at the time of the official 7:00 a.m. observation. This demonstrates how rigorous statistical definitions, though necessary for scientific analysis, can sometimes appear arbitrary when compared to the human perception of events ("I saw snow on Christmas Day, so for me it's a White Christmas!")"

[Tancredi]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

To me, Christmas should have enough snow to cover the ground and maybe pile up a bit on fences and bushes and whatever (2cm seems like a good number), and it should also be snowing outside, preferably nice big snowflakes (which means it's relatively warm, somewhere between 0 and -5).

Tell me about it, I would like to have a snowy Christmas too, but here in Palermo it's practically a pipe dream... and not just at Christmas, any day of the year.

[SignalHillHiker]

Winter.

[MonctonRad]

-16C (windchill -28) in Moncton at 10 AM. It is sunny but very cold, like, midwinter cold.

High this afternoon is supposed to be -10C

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by mcminsen

Okay, time for an update on the banana trees of Vancouver.

Specifically a few on the downtown peninsula. No hard freeze yet and some are looking
a bit dog eared but they're hanging in there. Their days are probably numbered, though
as the last half of December is looking to be pretty frosty.

Overcast, drizzly, damp, chilly. Thursday's high at Vancouver Harbour was 7 C, the low was 6 C.







West End, Downtown Vancouver, Dec.4 '25, my pics


...

...



...

Oh man thank you again for the exotic tropical eye candy of the West Coast of British Columbia!
While I do believe the perfect Xmas is -2C, no wind, and snowing with at least 10cms on the ground up here in the mountains, seeing the tropical unfrosted conditions of my own province's coast is really quite something.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Any place that hasn't had a freeze by December is unCanadian!

Question for those in Vancouver and Victoria, do you like not having snow at Christmas? I get the appeal of a mild winter, but Christmas is one time when you want the snow, especially with all the lights! I remember a friend taking me to a house in Langley that's famous for the Christmas display and it was just wasn't the same with green grass and no snow. The second night I saw it there was some fog, so that was better, but still not the same...



To me, Christmas should have enough snow to cover the ground and maybe pile up a bit on fences and bushes and whatever (2cm seems like a good number), and it should also be snowing outside, preferably nice big snowflakes (which means it's relatively warm, somewhere between 0 and -5). In Calgary, the weather is all over the place, we are almost as likely to have a brown Christmas as a white one. I'll be in Banff this weekend, nothing better than the mountains at Christmas with a good blanket of snow!

My problem with a white Christmas isn't that I don't like the snow (Vancouver looks stunning under a blanket of it), it's what happens to the city after the snow has fallen. It's pure chaos. The city will never be built for snow because the investment isn't worth it for the amount we get, so every year it's the same thing - snow falls, and the city becomes a dangerous gauntlet. Just getting to work can be an exercise in futility. Besides, you're never that far away from snow in Vancouver if you have a car. A quick trip up any mountain will get you there.*

So yeah, Vancouver is much better off without snow. It's this time of year when the city and surrounding forests become a moss-covered Narnia, and that's how I like it.

*This year notwithstanding. Those poor ski hills.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Tancredi

Thank you for the answer, but I don't understand the reference to 7 a.m.; so if the snow is on the ground on Christmas Day before or after 7 a.m. but not exactly at 7 a.m., is it not a 'White Christmas'?

Yes. That's the time of measurement they picked for their standard.

So they review the weather data on December 25 using these steps:

1) Look at snow depth at 7 a.m. and if it's >= 2 cm, it counts as a "White Christmas"
2) If (1) was met, and snowfall during the day was > 0 cm, it's a "Perfect Christmas"

It's got some limitations. If the snow is there at 7 a.m. but melts by 8 a.m., it still counts as a White Christmas. If it snows 0.1 cm and rains 30 mm, it can be a Perfect Christmas. Also I'd say 2 cm snow depth in an instrument doesn't necessarily mean consistent snow cover outside due to drifts and melt in the sun. A real "perfect Christmas" is more like 10 cm+ of snow depth and either sun or snow, with no rain. If that were the standard I think places like Winnipeg or Quebec City would still often have a "perfect Christmas", but Vancouver/Victoria/Toronto/Halifax would be pretty low. I think Quebec City is pretty much the "Christmas capital" of Canada.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by giallo

My problem with a white Christmas isn't that I don't like the snow (Vancouver looks stunning under a blanket of it), it's what happens to the city after the snow has fallen. It's pure chaos. The city will never be built for snow because the investment isn't worth it for the amount we get, so every year it's the same thing - snow falls, and the city becomes a dangerous gauntlet. Just getting to work can be an exercise in futility. Besides, you're never that far away from snow in Vancouver if you have a car. A quick trip up any mountain will get you there.*

So yeah, Vancouver is much better off without snow. It's this time of year when the city and surrounding forests become a moss-covered Narnia, and that's how I like it.

*This year notwithstanding. Those poor ski hills.

Most people in Vancouver definitely like a white Christmas. It's not unheard of as mid-December to mid-January is our coldest month, but is still a novelty. Vancouver really enjoys snow generally, probably because it isn't constant. Where I live, in Kits, if we get a big dump all the streets on steep hills shut down and people ski down them or toboggan. As Giallo notes, the city can get chaotic in the snow, so many people stay off the roads. It means side streets are quiet and they fill with people out taking pictures or playing in it.

But the reality with snow in cities is that, after like 1 nice day, it's disgusting, dirty junk. In Vancouver that means a day or so of mush while the rain washes it away. Elsewhere, it means dirty frozen snow banks.

[someone123]

It's kind of funny to think about the "white Christmas" tradition or trope. I am not sure where it came from. It was at least popular in the US in the early 20th century but maybe it's much older. It's not common in areas like NYC though, and in the UK it's even less common. Part of the trope involves wishing for a white Christmas that doesn't always happen, however.

Europe does have somewhat shifted seasons with winter coming earlier, and some places there celebrate Christmas later. So a white Christmas would be pretty common in Eastern Europe and Russia.

White Christmas aside there is a sort of outdoor Christmas vibe involving evergreen trees, wreaths, holly, etc. that is more in line with what things look like in most northern cities around that time.

[Zepfancouver]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Any place that hasn't had a freeze by December is unCanadian!

Question for those in Vancouver and Victoria, do you like not having snow at Christmas? I get the appeal of a mild winter, but Christmas is one time when you want the snow, especially with all the lights! I remember a friend taking me to a house in Langley that's famous for the Christmas display and it was just wasn't the same with green grass and no snow. The second night I saw it there was some fog, so that was better, but still not the same...



To me, Christmas should have enough snow to cover the ground and maybe pile up a bit on fences and bushes and whatever (2cm seems like a good number), and it should also be snowing outside, preferably nice big snowflakes (which means it's relatively warm, somewhere between 0 and -5). In Calgary, the weather is all over the place, we are almost as likely to have a brown Christmas as a white one. I'll be in Banff this weekend, nothing better than the mountains at Christmas with a good blanket of snow!

No we don't, a white Christmas is rare but when it happens, it is special. For Vancouverites, we dont read the devil's details in the fine print,
if I see snow falling on Dec 25th, for me it's a jingle bells, open sleigh and ho ho ho! white Christmas Day, plus the mountains look spectacular.
This was our last white Christmas in Vancouver and hoping for one this holiday A Rare Vancouver White Christmas 2021

[Tancredi]

You are absolutely right! These criteria for establishing a White Christmas/Perfect Christmas are debatable, but deep down, if we think about it, they are parameters that have no scientific basis whatsoever. For instance, for a person like me who lives in a hellish, sunny city like Palermo, a White and Perfect Christmas would be the same thing, and it would be enough to have a slight snowfall with just 1 cm of accumulation on the ground at any time on December 25th. But for a Canadian, the parameters are very different. The ideal scenario that would please everyone would be a Christmas Day where it snows frequently, without rain, without sun, and with several centimeters of snow on the ground. But the ideal is often far from reality.

Originally Posted by someone123

Yes. That's the time of measurement they picked for their standard.

So they review the weather data on December 25 using these steps:

1) Look at snow depth at 7 a.m. and if it's >= 2 cm, it counts as a "White Christmas"
2) If (1) was met, and snowfall during the day was > 0 cm, it's a "Perfect Christmas"

It's got some limitations. If the snow is there at 7 a.m. but melts by 8 a.m., it still counts as a White Christmas. If it snows 0.1 cm and rains 30 mm, it can be a Perfect Christmas. Also I'd say 2 cm snow depth in an instrument doesn't necessarily mean consistent snow cover outside due to drifts and melt in the sun. A real "perfect Christmas" is more like 10 cm+ of snow depth and either sun or snow, with no rain. If that were the standard I think places like Winnipeg or Quebec City would still often have a "perfect Christmas", but Vancouver/Victoria/Toronto/Halifax would be pretty low. I think Quebec City is pretty much the "Christmas capital" of Canada.