Cycling in Canada

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

The only time when bike paths remove an actual traffic lane is when parking is preserved (eg St-Denis in Montreal and most parts of Bloor in Toronto). People need to understand they can't have street parking and free-flowing traffic at the same time. It's either/or. The bike paths really have nothing to do with it.

In Bloor's case the way it was reconfigured made a lot of sense. It previously had 1 lane of traffic in each direction, 1 parking lane on each side, and no turn lanes. After the bike lanes went in, it was reconfigured to have 1 lane of traffic in each direction with dedicated turn lanes at major intersections, and a single parking lane on alternating sides of the street. Basically, vehicular traffic capacity remained the same - while parking capacity was effectively halved on the street. Eg:

Before: https://maps.app.goo.gl/6LAH911YCW41HrJW9
After: https://maps.app.goo.gl/CFFSUQbgZ1VjJgQo7

Having driven the street many times before and after the bike lanes, I generally found it easier to drive post-reconfiguration, as you no longer had to jostle for space with left turners, cyclists, and (as many) people trying to park. And needless to say, it made cycling it much easier.

Originally Posted by someone123

This is a good point. A lot of the congestion is just people parking and demanding spots right in front of businesses (while they'll walk the equivalent of 3 city blocks out at Costco). A lot of problems could be managed by adjusting this parking yet there is constant drama around it. It probably serves around 20% of the customers or less in a lot of busy urban commercial areas.

Most of the objection to removing street parking seems to come from the shop owners, who seem to think that the equivalent of a single parking spot in front of their business will make or break their business.

Of course, the reality on streets like Bloor or Yonge is that the vast majority of shoppers are arriving by foot anyway (or transit, bike, etc).

[Doady]

Street parking is a very important feature of a walkable downtown. It reduces the need for off-street parking allowing for redevelopment and intensification, and it calms traffic and provides a buffer between car traffic and pedestrians. Lack of parallel parking is the main problem with Main Street and King Street in Hamilton, for example. Simply adding parking on those streets would improve Hamilton's downtown immensely.

Parallel parking along major roads is a large part of what distinguishes a real city like Toronto from places Brampton and Mississauga. As you say, removing the parking actually made driving a car along Bloor easier, but is that what we really want in our cities?

I don't think people would bitch so much about Bloor if the city had along made some investment in improving cycling infrastructure for the rest of the city. By excluding people outside of downtown from the cycling network, the city allowed it to become a wedge issue. They pay for it, get no benefit from it, and no surprise they feel like they suffer because of it. It's just another way to divide the city. 905 has bike lanes too so no reason for a place like North York not to have them.

[Nouvellecosse]

People who are so insistent on driving everywhere that they literally drive a car on Bloor do not want more cycling infrastructure elsewhere in the city. The reason they're upset is that they don't accept anything other than cars, and to a lesser extent transit, as legitimate forms of transportation in any setting. So they don't think other modes should be given any space that could be used for "serious and practical" transportation modes.

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

People who are so insistent on driving everywhere that they literally drive a car on Bloor do not want more cycling infrastructure elsewhere in the city. The reason they're upset is that they don't accept anything other than cars, and to a lesser extent transit, as legitimate forms of transportation in any setting. So they don't think other modes should be given any space that could be used for "serious and practical" transportation modes.

You’re kinda proving doady’s point.

[Nite]

Originally Posted by Doady

Street parking is a very important feature of a walkable downtown. It reduces the need for off-street parking allowing for redevelopment and intensification, and it calms traffic and provides a buffer between car traffic and pedestrians. Lack of parallel parking is the main problem with Main Street and King Street in Hamilton, for example. Simply adding parking on those streets would improve Hamilton's downtown immensely.

Parallel parking along major roads is a large part of what distinguishes a real city like Toronto from places Brampton and Mississauga. As you say, removing the parking actually made driving a car along Bloor easier, but is that what we really want in our cities?

I don't think people would bitch so much about Bloor if the city had along made some investment in improving cycling infrastructure for the rest of the city. By excluding people outside of downtown from the cycling network, the city allowed it to become a wedge issue. They pay for it, get no benefit from it, and no surprise they feel like they suffer because of it. It's just another way to divide the city. 905 has bike lanes too so no reason for a place like North York not to have them.

In the past bike lanes were installed on some Scarborough streets. but due to opposition groups and the city councilors those bike lanes were removed. So, the city has tried and often failed when adding bike lanes in the suburbs. The city is still trying to install bike lanes in suburban areas but the local councilors and opposition groups have been successful in killing many projects.

In fact the Ontario government got involved in fighting bike lanes when they were installed in suburban areas, ie Etobicoke, before then they had no objections.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Hecate

You’re kinda proving doady’s point.

No, I'm not. That doesn't even make sense. You either don't understand what he was saying, what I am saying, or perhaps both.

His point was that people driving on Bloor are resentful that the bike lane exists on Bloor when nothing similar exists near where they live and that they wouldn't oppose it as much if one did exist closer to them. I pointed out that in reality, the type of people who oppose it on Bloor would also oppose it anywhere else as long it costs any money and they thought it had any effect on car traffic. Having ones closer to where they live would not make them feel any better about ones downtown. People don't feel deprived or resentful about not having things they don't want and don't like.

[Doady]

Mississauga and Brampton have been removing car lanes from major roads to install bike lanes too.

Main Street in Brampton in 2018
Main Street in Brampton in 2023

People are trying to frame this as a suburbanite vs. urbanite sort of thing, but it is entirely a Downtown Toronto vs. Etobicoke, North York, Scarborough thing. There is more opposition to bike lanes in Scarborough than there is in Brampton, even though Brampton is far more suburban than Scarborough. This has little to do with drivers being selfish and opposed to investment in cycling and transit infrstructure.

Mississauga bike lane plan for major road on hold as Ontario Premier Doug Ford’s government bill could block and remove some bicycle tracks

Mississauga’s plan to build bike lanes on a major city street is on hold as the province considers a new law that could block local plans to install cycle tracks on some roads.

City officials say Mississauga’s Bloor Street project is on hold after Ontario Premier Doug Ford’s government introduced a new bill that, if passed, would require cities to get permission from the province for road redesigns that remove car lanes to install bike lanes.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Doady

People are trying to frame this as a suburbanite vs. urbanite sort of thing, but it is entirely a Downtown Toronto vs. Etobicoke, North York, Scarborough thing. There is more opposition to bike lanes in Scarborough than there is in Brampton, even though Brampton is far more suburban than Scarborough. This has little to do with drivers being selfish and opposed to investment in cycling and transit infrstructure.

The outer boroughs are suburban in nature so many conflicts between them and the old city are very much an urban vs suburban dynamic. That's why the terms 416 suburbs and 905 suburbs exist. To differentiate between suburban areas within the current city limits and those outside them. This is especially evident by the way it's being led by Premier Ford who lives in Etobicoke and who would never have been elected if it wasn't for the suburban vote since he isn't popular in the old city. Same as Rob who was also anti-bike and who was also elected against the will of the old city. If there's more opposition from the 416 suburbs than the 905 suburbs (and that's a big if) it's because it's more common for people in the 905 sububs to take the GO train than to drive downtown due to the longer distances, presence of more GO stops, and not being as involved in city politics since they're not Toronto constituents.

But we can easily tell whether they're opposing the lanes in general or the lack of bike infrastructure investment in their communities by what they're saying. The are not calling for more local investment, they're saying bikes are silly and their infrastructure is a waste of money and space. That part should be obvious. I mean, let's say people were mad that a new park was being built in the inner city and they feel resentful that there isn't enough park space near them. They wouldn't be all saying that parks are stupid and we shouldn't be wasting money on them. They would explicitly say that it's unfair that their communities lack park space and that park funds shouldn't all go downtown. Same thing for hospitals, schools, or whatever. They would not be saying that hospitals and schools are silly and a waste of money. They'd be very vocal about wanting more of those things.

To be clear, I'm sure there are plenty of people in suburban areas who do want better bike infrastructure. They're just not the same ones calling for it to be removed or banned downtown. So in that sense you're correct in that it's not an urban vs suburban thing but specifically an entitled motorist vs reasonable people thing. It's just that entitled motorists disproportionately live in suburban areas, partly due to self selection and partly due to being shaped by their environment.

[MonkeyRonin]

Yeah, I don't buy the argument that people who dislike bike lanes would like them more if only there were more of them.

[zoomer]

Oh the Urbanity! finally made it out to Victoria:

• Video Link

Their conclusion:

"Victoria is one of the few places where I really felt: yah, I could live here and get around by by bike more-or-less like I do in Montreal. And that's really cool to see from a small city."

[zoomer]

And another video on cycling infrastructure in Victoria that just came out. Some really good footage in this one.

• Video Link

[MonkeyRonin]

Caught this biking/travel video about Toronto. Really captures the vibe of the city and what it feels like to ride it. Also shows some of its great bike shop culture:

• Video Link

[niwell]

^Great video of a lot of familiar places! Only making the painful wait to summer even harder though... I've finally been able to use bikeshare again this past month but due to the horrific winter went without biking for the longest stretch in almost 20 years. Hoping to tune up my actual bike soon so I can get back out there even more (and cut my commute times significantly).

[Kilgore Trout]

Originally Posted by niwell

^Great video of a lot of familiar places! Only making the painful wait to summer even harder though... I've finally been able to use bikeshare again this past month but due to the horrific winter went without biking for the longest stretch in almost 20 years. Hoping to tune up my actual bike soon so I can get back out there even more (and cut my commute times significantly).

Is bikeshare adapted for winter? Do you think it would have made a difference if they'd had studded tires? Or was it more a question of bike paths that weren't cleared of snow?

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

Is bikeshare adapted for winter? Do you think it would have made a difference if they'd had studded tires? Or was it more a question of bike paths that weren't cleared of snow?

As far as I know they don't really do anything different for winter other than maintenance. That said the bikes actually pretty good in normal Toronto winters - heavy enough to easily deal with the amount of snow we regularly get. Studded tires would certainly help but probably not worth it most of the time.

The sheer amount of snow/ice this year just made cycling extremely difficult - bike paths were ostensibly cleared but there were random piles of snow everywhere blocking portions before the City could clear them (I will say they did a better job than last year, but the snow seemed unceasing). Which sucks but I can't reasonably expect them to prioritize bike lanes when sidewalks in some areas were virtually impassible for weeks. Even major streets in central areas narrowed with the ice build-up at the curb and side streets had a layer of packed ice/snow. They reminded me of Calgary in the 90s when they didn’t bother ploughing residential streets. Really just a volume issue on top of unseasonably low temperatures. A friend of mine who has a proper winter bike with studded tires even held off for a big part of the winter. Really hoping this isn't the new norm!