NEW YORK | Penn Station / MSG Renovation

[The New York Lion]

All of this sounds very promising.

We need to move MSG and make Penn Station Great Again.

Let's get it done.

[ChiND]

It is incontrovertible that moving MSG and fixing Penn once and for all is clearly on the table.

https://gothamist.com/news/feds-back-off-penn-station-plan-that-would-raze-a-block-in-midtown


By Stephen Nessen
Published Aug 27, 2025

. The fate of Madison Square Garden, which sits atop Penn Station, remains uncertain. Byford left open the possibility the arena may have to relocate. Its permit to operate above the transit hub expires in 2028, and Byford said he’d consider designs that force it to move.

“ Some are predicated on the Garden staying put. Some are predicated on the Garden moving. I'm not going to opine on that,” he said. “I would rather we see what ideas are out there, and then we'll deal with that at a later date.”

Competing visions for upgrading the train station have already been released by outside parties.

A Trump-backed group called the Grand Penn Alliance has released sketches for a Penn Station built with Trump-approved grandeur, Roman columns and “classical architecture.” That plan would move Madison Square Garden across Seventh Avenue to a lot formerly occupied by the Hotel Pennsylvania

[patriotizzy]

Like The New York Lion said:

We need to move MSG and make Penn Station Great Again!

I hope they stick with the roman columns idea and expand further upon it. Grandeur, ornate, and lavish. At the bare minimum real stone and monumentally tall ceilings would scratch my itch.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by The New York Lion

Should this proceed, I would like to see a statue of Trump, Byford, Duffy, and President Lee somewhere around the entrance.

Disturbing.

[NYguy]

The fate of Madison Square Garden, which sits atop Penn Station, remains uncertain. Byford left open the possibility the arena may have to relocate.

I don't know how many times this has to be explained. But this guy has no authority whatsoever as far as MSG goes. And furthermore, what replaces MSG even if it did move. Just because people are saying words doesn't make those words any more potent. They are just words. As I've said (multiple times) before, Amtrak's authority only rest with the station it owns, which is underground. Amtrak's actual base of operations is in the new terminal across 8th Avenue, some of you may have heard of it before - Moynihan. Further still, it is up to the city itself as to whether MSG should move, or if there is even a place for it to move to. Any smart person would tell you that you don't undertake such a complex project without the cooperation of all parties involved, particularly the states who run the railroads - where the improvements would need to go. But we'll continue to watch as they deliver words. As it is, any action has been kicked down the road even further.



August 31, 2025

MSG & 2 Penn





Amtrak's base of operations, Moynihan Station

[Busy Bee]

[SammyBaby]

Correct me if I am wrong but I recall reading awhile back that if Mr. Dolan refuses to relocate MSG it can ultimately be taken by eminent domain. Regardless, I believe that for the following reasons Mr. Dolan will capitulate: if you study all the times MSG has relocated and has been rebuilt, it is around that time for it to occur again and what better location could be available than moving right across the street and still being on top of the 34th Street transit hubs for NYCTA, MTA, LIRR, PATH, NJT and Amtrak, but with new, improved and modernized access directly into the new MSG. I am sure Mr. Dolan will be coaxed by various monetary enticements and the magnificent version of the new Penn Station, with its arches and fountains will be built. Right now Mr. Dolan and other power players involved are posturing themselves but as the date nears for a decision I optimistically believe the people of NYC will get that beautiful new Penn Station.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by SammyBaby

Correct me if I am wrong but I recall reading awhile back that if Mr. Dolan refuses to relocate MSG it can ultimately be taken by eminent domain. Regardless, I believe that for the following reasons Mr. Dolan will capitulate: if you study all the times MSG has relocated and has been rebuilt, it is around that time for it to occur again and what better location could be available than moving right across the street and still being on top of the 34th Street transit hubs for NYCTA, MTA, LIRR, PATH, NJT and Amtrak, but with new, improved and modernized access directly into the new MSG. I am sure Mr. Dolan will be coaxed by various monetary enticements and the magnificent version of the new Penn Station, with its arches and fountains will be built. Right now Mr. Dolan and other power players involved are posturing themselves but as the date nears for a decision I optimistically believe the people of NYC will get that beautiful new Penn Station.

That's not how eminent domain works. You have to prove it is necessary for the public domain, or greater good (which it isn't). But even if you could prove such a thing, which, by the way you would have to do for 2 Penn Plaza as well to prove your point, there is the issue of the city relocating Madison Square Garden (not to mention the millions of sq ft of development rights). The process to improve Penn Station is currently being run by the federal government, people who don't want to cooperate with local officials. So be it. The only thing they have succeeded in doing so far was taking Hochul off the hook. In the meantime, they are going to waste 2 more years, and more money on studies that have already been done - to propose the single level plan that was already in the works.

[SammyBaby]

NYguy, you said: That's not how eminent domain works. You have to prove it is necessary for the public domain, or greater good (which it isn't)." I respectfully disagree with you, it certainly is for the public domain and greater good and now that the feds are in control, as much as I detest Donald Trump, he seems to be able to make deals with people and being a former New Yorker with many ties there, I believe that he will be able to convince Mr. Dolan to relocate across the street.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by SammyBaby

NYguy, you said: That's not how eminent domain works. You have to prove it is necessary for the public domain, or greater good (which it isn't)." I respectfully disagree with you, it certainly is for the public domain and greater good and now that the feds are in control, as much as I detest Donald Trump, he seems to be able to make deals with people and being a former New Yorker with many ties there, I believe that he will be able to convince Mr. Dolan to relocate across the street.

its another lazy hot air grift — i’ll believe it when i see it.

[Robin~]

Originally Posted by patriotizzy

At the bare minimum real stone and monumentally tall ceilings would scratch my itch.

You and I both know that would come away looking extremely tacky

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

its another lazy hot air grift — i’ll believe it when i see it.

Originally Posted by SammyBaby

NYguy, you said: That's not how eminent domain works. You have to prove it is necessary for the public domain, or greater good (which it isn't)."

I respectfully disagree with you, it certainly is for the public domain and greater good and now that the feds are in control, as much as I detest Donald Trump, he seems to be able to make deals with people and being a former New Yorker with many ties there, I believe that he will be able to convince Mr. Dolan to relocate across the street.

You can disagree all you want. MSG is one of the top arenas of the planet. Try proving in court that MSG and 2 Penn (newly rebuilt by the way) need to be moved for the "greater good" when there is no greater good in removing those buildings as they exist today. Stop being naive. People say a lot of things. Look at the reality, not just on what's being said. For instance, they say they want to look at "through running". Well guses what, the states control the railroads that would need to do it, and those systems aren't compatible btw. Who's paying for it? The Feds? As I've said, they were brought in to cut cost. Moving MSG itself would be, even if you managed to find somewhere to move it to (I wouldn't hold my breath), take years of study and environmental review, not to mention approval by the city. They're saying a lot, but can only promise you very little on their own. Even with the cooperation of the states, it is highly unlikely all of that could get done. And for good reason. People who depend on Penn Station for daily commutes are interested first and foremost in service. And they want to be in and out of Penn Station as quickly as possible. That can be addressed. People who need to spend more time in the station for travel to outside destinations (Amtrak) have a beautiful new terminal in Moynihan.

[NYguy]

Now, back to MSG, there is a conversation we should be having.

"The Garden is one of the great institutions of the town, to be mentioned along with Central Park and the bridge of Brooklyn".

NY Times, 1890

Madison Square Garden itself, "the World's Most Famous Arena", is an institution that predates Penn Station itself. The current building is the 4 version, but it is still a name recognized around the world. People expect great things. But everyone I know who sees it for the first time basically says "is that it?". The building itself does not match the legendary nature of the arena. That can be improved - if they wanted to. People who want to move MSG so a more "classical" looking building could take its place as the roof over Penn Station, overlook the obvious: A newly rebuilt MSG can achieve bot a historical nod to it's legendary status, and Penn Station. It's not likely to happen, but it's something that could happen if people gave it thought.

[NYguy]

You cannot be both for transit upgrades, and against it. This is why politics should never factor into these things. We've come too far and waited too long for things to start moving.


https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/01/nyregion/trump-nyc-subway-gateway-infrastructure-funding.html

Trump Administration to Withhold $18 Billion for N.Y.C. Infrastructure
The transportation secretary said previously awarded funds for two major projects, the expansion of the Second Avenue subway and the construction of train tunnels under the Hudson River, would not be distributed.




By Matthew Haag
Oct. 1, 2025

The Trump administration announced on Wednesday that it would withhold $18 billion in federal infrastructure funds previously awarded to New York City, including funding for two major transportation projects.

In a statement, Sean Duffy, the transportation secretary, specifically mentioned the expansion of the Second Avenue subway line and the construction of new train tunnels under the Hudson River, a $16 billion project known as Gateway.

The Gateway Development Commission, which oversees the Hudson tunnel project, held its monthly board meeting on Tuesday. No mention was made of a possible suspension of funding.

[UrbanImpact]

It's such a shameful and idiotic move. Costs are only going to increase now.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by UrbanImpact

It's such a shameful and idiotic move. Costs are only going to increase now.

not to mention the wasted time and screwed up scheduling.

i mean they were hard at it.

hopefully some of those crusty hardhats reevaluate their voting patterns.

[ChiND]

https://www.archpaper.com/2025/05/andy-byford-penn-station/

“We are delighted that Andy Byford has been appointed to oversee the redevelopment of Penn Station,” NCAS president Justin Shubow told AN. “Not only is he incredibly competent, back in 2023, he said that any overhaul of the station should include moving Madison Square Garden. We couldn’t agree more. No magnificent, let alone safe, station is possible without relocating the arena.”

Andy Byford will lead Penn Station’s overhaul as Amtrak Board of Directors Special Advisor—what does it mean for the redesign?
By Daniel Jonas Roche • May 27, 2025

[ChiND]

We'll have an idea about this site's fate in May of 2026. If an office tower rises there, Vornado must clean up the disgusting block to the north. I can't see a company like Morgan Stanley paying $200/sf for 1m sf of space amidst this squalor. Further, one of the little mid-block buildings (south of McDonald's) was recently sold, and I was shocked that Vornado did not buy it. These eyesores must go.



The next six months will reveal a lot about this site's future. As per the band, Asia: "One thing is sure, That time will tell"!

“This is not just kicking the tires,” Roth explained of the seriousness of the discussions. But he also cautioned that nothing was agreed on and a deal might not come together. Those with other ideas for the site reacted carefully...

The Grand Penn Alliance was even more discreet. The Trump administration has issued a request for interest in being the master developer to transform Penn Station.

https://www.ourtownny.com/news/vornado-r...wer-for-hotel-pennylvania-site-FA5266304

[BanBrokenChatBots]

The next six months will reveal a lot about this site's future. As per the band, Asia: "One thing is sure, That time will tell"!

Well the VP's of MSG did say publicly they're willing to move across the street on this site which would be beneficial to everyone in this area for development. A new Penn Station & Arena (dump) is sorely needed.
However if they do choose to build this they're moving in the right direction architecturally, I wish they would use some Indian limestone though maybe at the top crown and on the sides.

[ChiND]

Originally Posted by BanBrokenChatBots

Well the VP's of MSG did say publicly they're willing to move across the street on this site which would be beneficial to everyone in this area for development. A new Penn Station & Arena (dump) is sorely needed.
However if they do choose to build this they're moving in the right direction architecturally, I wish they would use some Indian limestone though maybe at the top crown and on the sides.