YVR & Sea Island Developments Discussion II

[nname]

Originally Posted by s211

I wish I knew more. Otherwise, I've no sane idea why they'd degrade their hardware by going downscale like that?

I think in the end, customer may not feel any difference between mainline and Rouge (since the leg room of mainline is shrinking).

From what's being released today, the MAX to Rouge conversion will remove 1 row of J, and add 2 rows of Y. They will be essentially using the same seat with same IFE and keeping whatever that's already offered on the aircraft.

https://paxex.aero/air-canada-rouge-737max-configuration/


A few other recent updates for S26:
- AF reduce YVR-CDG to 5x weekly for Apr and May (similar to previous years), but keep daily flights for June this year
- BA removed Tuesday flight for BA86 from Apr-July, so YVR-LHR is now 10x weekly Apr-June, 13x weekly July, 14x weekly August, 11x weekly Sept-Oct
- NZ reduce YVR-AKL to 6x weekly for a few weeks in May, June, Sept, Oct, but will operate all flights with 77W. One or two weekly flight will be the high-density version.
- FJ increase YVR-NAN to 3x weekly from mid-June to the end of summer schedule. So the route seems to be 3x weekly year-round except for 9 weeks in Apr-June.
- AC applied for 3x daily slots to DUB for S26. Currently YYZ is scheduled daily and YVR/YUL both schedule 4x weekly. Not sure if there will be any plan to use all the slots for the summer...
- As per the announcement this week, WS to start YVR-YYF 5x weekly, and increase YVR-YHZ to daily in summer (4x weekly for early/late season)

[xd_1771]

Vancouver adjacent, but there's some relevant news on the upcoming AC 737 MAX 8 rouge refit

https://paxex.aero/air-canada-rouge-737max-configuration/

Apparently the new "Rouge" planes will continue to have the same seats in economy, WITH RECLINE (a likely one up to WestJet's decision to remove it), and the seats will even retain the existing seatback TVs and internet access. The main change to layout is 2 premium seats being swapped out for 4 more economy seats.

I suppose we can speculate on some reduction to the seat pitch and pricing/onboard service model to match the "Rouge" branding, but I feel this is better than we bargained for in terms of becoming a primarily Rouge base!

[Johnny Aussie]

Air North restarts Yellowknife from YVR later today

Twice weekly flights operating Mondays and Fridays through the end of March

Operating on 735s

YVR-YZF now 16 weekly with the two daily AC flights

Air North climbs to over 30 weekly over the peak winter

[s211]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Vancouver adjacent, but there's some relevant news on the upcoming AC 737 MAX 8 rouge refit

https://paxex.aero/air-canada-rouge-737max-configuration/

Apparently the new "Rouge" planes will continue to have the same seats in economy, WITH RECLINE (a likely one up to WestJet's decision to remove it), and the seats will even retain the existing seatback TVs and internet access. The main change to layout is 2 premium seats being swapped out for 4 more economy seats.

I suppose we can speculate on some reduction to the seat pitch and pricing/onboard service model to match the "Rouge" branding, but I feel this is better than we bargained for in terms of becoming a primarily Rouge base!

Is there any sense that AC will focus its Rouge product out west? Gawd I hope not, but when it's AC from QC, anything is possible.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by s211

Is there any sense that AC will focus its Rouge product out west? Gawd I hope not, but when it's AC from QC, anything is possible.

Please God no.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by s211

Is there any sense that AC will focus its Rouge product out west? Gawd I hope not, but when it's AC from QC, anything is possible.

Focus? Not really. But there will be a YVR Rouge base.

Originally Posted by madog222

Here’s a slide from the investor day presentation. The two California airports look to be SNA and PSP.

From Air Canada https://airlinegeeks.com/2024/12/17/air-canada-shifts-737-maxs-to-rouge-brand/

[nname]

There won't be much difference between Rouge and mainline besides the small sticker by the door. From the other forum, seems like Rouge may have more leg room than some of the mainline planes.

Not sure if they will bother to use a different number range, or they will mix everything together.

AC had recently updated the flight number of sun routes to make room for expanded operation to Europe with XLR. These are the new number for all affected routes out of YVR:

996 YVR-MEX (unchanged)
1310 YVR-PVR
1314 YVR-CUN (unchanged)
1316 YVR-CUN (unchanged)
1342 YVR-ZIH (unchanged)
1440 YVR-SJD
2208 YVR-ZIH

All transborder route that have potential to be transferred to Rouge (HNL, OGG, KOA, HNL, LAS, PHX, PSP) still have the original flight number.

==================================================

In other news, AC will initiate codeshare with AI starting Dec 2. Not sure if they will put AC code on AI's YVR-DEL flight and call it a day?

ZG opened reservation for YVR-NRT with 4x weekly flight. I guess they will do the same as W26 and release more flights later?

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by madog222

Focus? Not really. But there will be a YVR Rouge base.

From the map it looks like:

• Los Angeles
• Palm Springs
• Honolulu
• Maui
• Kona
• Anchorage
• Vegas
• Phoenix
• Cabo
• Puerto Vallarta
• Mexico City
• Cancun
• Miami
• Somewhere in Ontario
• Quebec City
• Halifax

Mostly Makes sense. The Ontario line may be just showing some rouge planes on YVR-YYZ. Doubt it would be Ottawa or any other new airport add.

Miami and Mexico City are odd, I don't think those are really low yield leisure destinations but what do I know.

If the LA airport is LAX that's a terrible call, hopefully it's just Orange County. LAX was thoroughly bashed when it came out as a rouge route the first time and I really hope they're not doing it again.

Hawaii will also be interesting. Some good business connections on HNL and definitely a higher earning crowd on the Maui flights. Will be interesting to see how it goes over.

I hope with Rouge they can not just "Rouge" existing routes but add some new ones, especially in the Carribean. It's such a pain in the asss to get there from YVR, so some directs would be very welcome.

[Johnny Aussie]

That’s the problem with maps like those… a bit cryptic. Fun to guess though.
Also that was published a year ago and as always the proviso of “possible” and “potential”

Good to see Zipair opening reservations again. Their business model seems to be exactly as you say nname. An initial opening four months prior to extension and then expand at a later date.
Not great if you want to book in advance but alas!

https://www.zipair.net/en/notification/355

Operating Schedule: -Vancouver-Tokyo Narita
(March 30 - August 31, 2026)
Flight #
ZG22 DEP Narita 15:55 → ARR Vancouver 08:30
ZG21 DEP Vancouver 10:30 → ARR Narita 12:40
Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat
* From July 1 to August 31, the flights will arrive in Vancouver at 8:45, and depart at 10:45.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

In other news, AC will initiate codeshare with AI starting Dec 2. Not sure if they will put AC code on AI's YVR-DEL flight and call it a day?

Until AC can overfly Russia…

From Air India’s press release:

The agreement enables Air India to offer its customers convenient access to six points across Canada beyond its gateways at Vancouver and London (Heathrow)

This allows Air India to place its ‘AI’ designator code on Air Canada-operated flights on the following routes –

From Vancouver to Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Montréal and Halifax
And from London Heathrow to Vancouver and Calgary

[s211]

Originally Posted by nname

There won't be much difference between Rouge and mainline besides the small sticker by the door. From the other forum, seems like Rouge may have more leg room than some of the mainline planes.

That's an interesting perspective, considering that "being rouge'd" practically became a meme for people pissed off when they found out their booking had been downgraded to a cheap tourist plane.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Until AC can overfly Russia…

From Air India’s press release:

The agreement enables Air India to offer its customers convenient access to six points across Canada beyond its gateways at Vancouver and London (Heathrow)

This allows Air India to place its ‘AI’ designator code on Air Canada-operated flights on the following routes –

From Vancouver to Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Montréal and Halifax
And from London Heathrow to Vancouver and Calgary

Interesting that AI is only code-sharing out of YVR and from LHR to YVR/YYC, but YYZ is not involved at all?

For AC, I guess there's no longer a need to operate their own LHR-DEL or LHR-BOM, as both routes will just use AI's plane.

[EDIT]
Just noticed AC moved both the extra flight to HKG and SIN from AC21 to AC15 (old number for YYZ-HKG). Not sure why the change, are they planning to use AC21/22 for a new route....?

[thenoflyzone]

https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-canad...ow-more-passenger-and-cargo-flights.html

EK is most likely coming to YVR shortly....

[LeftCoaster]

Interesting. I'll wait to be pleasantly surprised until it happens, but like I always said this route makes infinitely more sense for EK rather than AC given the Russia conundrum.

If they do launch I wonder what plane makes the most sense, A350 or 773? Long term it seems like a great route for the 779.

I wonder if AC adds some YYZ frequencies or adds YUL-DXB with their slots.

[VancityAvgeek33]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-canad...ow-more-passenger-and-cargo-flights.html

EK is most likely coming to YVR shortly....

I hopeee!

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Interesting. I'll wait to be pleasantly surprised until it happens, but like I always said this route makes infinitely more sense for EK rather than AC given the Russia conundrum.

If they do launch I wonder what plane makes the most sense, A350 or 773? Long term it seems like a great route for the 779.

It will mostly likely be a 77W. It's the go to plane they use to launch routes. That's what they did with YUL, so I expect the same with YVR. Seldom, if ever, have they launched a route with the A380, so it won't be that at the start, but might develop to become an A380 further down the road, depending on loads/yields.

They don't have enough ULH A350s in house, and those planes don't have first class, so I don't think the route will launch with the A350 either. Unlike YUL, YVR should be able to handle an F class 77W, so my money is on the 77W.

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I wonder if AC adds some YYZ frequencies or adds YUL-DXB with their slots.

Second daily YYZ, of course. It's a no brainer.

1x daily at YUL is most likely enough. A curveball would be them launching YYC. Could happen, but a second daily YYZ makes more sense.

[LeftCoaster]

No way AC launches YYC-DXB. I'm no insider but I can't see that happening.

Also, AC doesn't already fly YUL-DXB unless I missed a big announcement.

Also, for the Emirates slots, is it a given EK gets these? Wouldn't Etihad take a swing at maybe bumping YYZ to 2xPW?

[thenoflyzone]

I misread what you wrote. I thought you were talking about EK. Not AC.

I don’t think AC is adding anything more to DXB. It will all be EK.

[casper]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

They don't have enough ULH A350s in house, and those planes don't have first class, so I don't think the route will launch with the A350 either. Unlike YUL, YVR should be able to handle an F class 77W, so my money is on the 77W.

Lets see what happens with the Seattle. We may end up seeing some aircraft reallocation from the US.

Trump (et al.) are talking about travel bans from third-world and Muslim countries again. They may well discover a business case for shifting some capacity from the US to Canada

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

I misread what you wrote. I thought you were talking about EK. Not AC.

I don’t think AC is adding anything more to DXB. It will all be EK.

AC won't add anything. There is capacity for a Canadian carrier to launch more flights to the UAE (There are currently 14 slots left from the Canadian side). AC could have done it for years and hasn't moved off it 1 daily from YYZ to Dubai.

14 new slots for UAE Carriers, almost certain YVR will go daily. EK will want 2 daily from YYZ. EY may want something too.
Qatar has gone from 12 a week to 14 weekly fall 2026, so QR will have daily from both Toronto and Montreal in 2026.

Saudi Arabia slots have increased from 4 weekly to 14 week, so assume they will go daily in Toronto and have 7 left over for Saudia or Riadh air (If that is the long term plan).

Turkish has been rejected twice over last 3 years for more slots in Canada. Lets see if that changes with this government.

Lots of capacity coming to the Middle east in 2026 for Canada.