Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion II

[idunno]

Exciting to see. Cheap solar is the future!

[logan5]

Hate to be negative cynical guy, but those solar panel lights will need a decent sized battery, which are expensive. Those panels, along with the battery will be fairly easy to get to and steal. A cordless recip saw would cut through the top of that pole in about 30 seconds.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by logan5

Hate to be negative cynical guy, but those solar panel lights will need a decent sized battery, which are expensive. Those panels, along with the battery will be fairly easy to get to and steal. A cordless recip saw would cut through the top of that pole in about 30 seconds.

I thought about that, but then I realised that the bus stops only need to stay lit until 2AM unless it's a nightbus stop. That cuts down on the battery requirements a bit.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by logan5

Hate to be negative cynical guy, but those solar panel lights will need a decent sized battery, which are expensive. Those panels, along with the battery will be fairly easy to get to and steal. A cordless recip saw would cut through the top of that pole in about 30 seconds.

They call it a Canadian company but their brochure says "Made and manufactured in USA". Not sure if that is just for the units sold to the US market.

Seems like it's a ~$75-100 battery pack?

Battery 20Ah, 12.8V
Battery Autonomy 5+ nights

https://www.urbansolarcorp.com/transit-pole-lighting

[idunno]

The light turns on only when activated! So maybe this reduces battery needs.

"Simply press the button at your stop to light up the night. Lights will shine for up to 10 minutes once activated, ensuring you’re visible to bus operators and other road users."

(from buzzer blog)

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by idunno

The light turns on only when activated! So maybe this reduces battery needs.

Exactly. I bought a couple of these motion-activated solar-powered lights for my back door and the door to my detached garage - they cost about $30 each at the time and use a single standard 2140 Li-Ion cell. They're quite bright and work surprisingly well, even in the winter when the days are cloudy and short. For an on-demand light at a bus stop I have a hard time imagining that you'd need more than a hundred bucks worth of batteries.

[Mac Write]

Originally Posted by mcj

Broadway subway should see increases to 9 service levels, so a draw on 40 foot buses and a little relief on 60 foots from truncated 99 service.

Burnaby Gondola should see relief on the 40 foots used on the 145 as that route will be eliminated (5 buses being used on that route right now I can see from the T-Comm), would expect these to cover the increase on the 9.

Langley extension will eliminate the 503 (9 x 40ft buses being used right now for that route), and will see some better efficiencies on other routes. But overall should drive the need for more routes and service increases that will require more than 9 spare 40ft buses.

UBC extension, in theory you'd get all the 99 60ft buses back to use on other routes (less whatever is reallocated from the broadway subway opening). There's 23 of those running right now, so that should be a big uplift to any rapidbus routes in need at the time (likely R4/R5).

I should have been clearer when both lines open how many Transit hours will be recovered from the Skytrain taking over to then be redrisbruted on new or existing routes.

[jollyburger]

The bigger problem is finding more money to operate any increases in bus service.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Technically there's no increases if they're just moving buses and drivers from one line to another (unless service kms go up).

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Technically there's no increases if they're just moving buses and drivers from one line to another (unless service kms go up).

But aren't they taking on new operating costs from the subway which would have to be reallocated for somewhere in their existing budget?

I mean no one expects them to scrap the buses but it seems like a waste of time for a business case for the SFU gondola to talk about "bus savings" in their business case studies when they'll just be redeployed with similar operating hours (minus the toll the hill takes on buses for maintenance)

[mcj]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

But aren't they taking on new operating costs from the subway which would have to be reallocated for somewhere in their existing budget?

I mean no one expects them to scrap the buses but it seems like a waste of time for a business case for the SFU gondola to talk about "bus savings" in their business case studies when they'll just be redeployed with similar operating hours (minus the toll the hill takes on buses for maintenance)

I think in lines that drive new demand (and to a lesser extent the redeployment of buses), you could classify the revenue generated by that additional demand as "savings" since it would offset the operating costs in the same way. However, it's unlikely that these additional buses would generate that much new demand as they're already very well utilized and would likely be deployed on routes with lower ridership.

The operating budget problem is a problem that's going to have to be solved by increasing taxes/debt spending or increasing fares (or likely both) to avoid a transit death spiral from cost cutting. It would still be a net benefit for anyone that ditches their car for transit mind you.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

But aren't they taking on new operating costs from the subway which would have to be reallocated for somewhere in their existing budget?

I mean no one expects them to scrap the buses but it seems like a waste of time for a business case for the SFU gondola to talk about "bus savings" in their business case studies when they'll just be redeployed with similar operating hours (minus the toll the hill takes on buses for maintenance)

Which would be offset by the new revenue brought in by the SkyTrain* and gondola, and the maintenance budget saved by not destroying transmissions on the slope...?

*The 99 moves 34-56k/day; estimates for the Broadway extension are 135-150k in Year 1. Even assuming most of those are just riders from other buses, that's still a lot of new passengers.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Which would be offset by the new revenue brought in by the SkyTrain* and gondola, and the maintenance budget saved by not destroying transmissions on the slope...?

*The 99 moves 34-56k/day; estimates for the Broadway extension are 135-150k in Year 1. Even assuming most of those are just riders from other buses, that's still a lot of new passengers.

But there's no new revenue from the Subway/gondola unless there's new ridership (new/more frequent riders)?

The gondola project had around 30% cost savings over bus operations so that business scenario is probably more clear cut. Higher bus maintenance over standard routes was in the 10% range?

Sidenote: U-Pass got extended until 2030

Since 2011, the Province has invested more than $250 million toward the U-Pass BC program, including a $75 million commitment made in May 2025 to extend the program until 2030.

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2025TT0104-000966

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

But there's no new revenue from the Subway/gondola unless there's new ridership (new/more frequent riders)?

Hence the footnote. The 2012 study estimated 54k new weekday trips; even if they all just buy one-zones, that's $146k/day and $53m/year.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

But there's no new revenue from the Subway/gondola unless there's new ridership (new/more frequent riders)?

Induced demand.

When you open a new freeway or bridge, cars magically appear to take advantage of the increased capacity. The same thing applies to transit.

[Migrant_Coconut]

And I don't think Steer accounted for all the development along the corridor since 2012. Expect that 54k to be a lowball.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Induced demand.

When you open a new freeway or bridge, cars magically appear to take advantage of the increased capacity. The same thing applies to transit.

Not really. There has to be demand there to start. See: suburban bus routes.

[Lexus]

2025, Nov 26

Marpole transit centre

Untitled by Lexus LX 700, on Flickr

Untitled by Lexus LX 700, on Flickr

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Induced demand.

When you open a new freeway or bridge, cars magically appear to take advantage of the increased capacity. The same thing applies to transit.

Not only that, but demand jumps on the rest of the network. Additional trips occur elsewhere because the overall network becomes more useful.

[jollyburger]

Article is behind a paywall but it says Translink rejected a sole-source proposal from Cubic for the new fare system upgrades.

https://www.mobility-payments.com/2025/1...d-to-have-rejected-sole-source-proposal/

DH article about the contract:

In essence, there is not enough data storage space in the existing Compass Card to handle a more complicated fare table that has the capability to achieve distance-travelled fares and discounts based on the time of the day or user group, for example.

“Right now, our system is quite limited in its functionality and its ability for the types of programs… We can do that with a new system, with new software, new back-end software that’s easier for employers to access. We can do these types of incentive programs that you’re talking about,” said Quinn.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/translink-compass-system-new-procurement-bidding-rfp