CFL in the Maritimes

[elly63]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

Regina dreams of Halifax's or Moncton's crime rate.

It was a very pathetic hoax dreamed up by an Ontario loon who registered himself as all sorts of crazy political orgs.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Posted this before in the main boards in the Stadiums thread, and remembered about this thread.

I don't think a maritime expansion will work for the CFL, unless Halifax has a natural rival in the maritimes. Moncton is the logical location for a second CFL team in the maritimes, and in terms of expanding and upgrading their stadium, they're a lot closer to having a 25,000+ person stadium than Halifax is.

The greatest rivalry in the CFL (Saskatchewan vs Winnipeg) is the rivalry with the furthest distance between the two teams in the league, and it's between two of the most similar provinces in the country. If Regina never had a team, almost no one would travel to Winnipeg for CFL games, or vice versa. Although without the CFL rivalry, there might be less animosity between Saskatchewanians and Manitobans

I think it's a huge reach to expect many if any people from PEI, NB, or Newfoundland and Labrador to travel to Halifax to support a CFL team "as their own", simply because they're called the Atlantic Schooners and not the Halifax Schooners.

They could make the Saint John->Digby ferry free, and I still don't think many Saint Johners would drive to go watch the Halifax CFL team simply because they called them "the Atlantic Schooners".

However, I could see many Saint Johners travelling to Moncton to support a New Brunswick CFL team molded in the image of the Saskatchewan Roughriders and sponsored by Alpine Lager. I imagine there'd also be many proud New Brunswickers from Fredericton and elsewhere that would support an NB branded CFL team in Moncton, our largest city. I think many New Brunswickers from Moncton, Saint John, and Fredericton would travel to Halifax to support the New Brunswick CFL team in the Maritimes version of "the Banjo Bowl", and maybe many Haligonians would travel to Moncton.

Also, Schooner is a Nova Scotian beer, and a Nova Scotian symbol. Beer matters a lot when it comes to the CFL, or at least it does in Saskatchewan and Winnipeg. The Riders have Old Style Pilsner and the Bombers have Labatt Blue. Atlantic Schooners would be a decidedly Nova Scotian name for a supposedly "Atlantic Canadian" team.







Rider fans at the first "Banjo Bowl" in Winnipeg - September 12, 2004


I've always found Alpine in New Brunswick to be especially analogous to Pilsner in Saskatchewan, as you find merch and advertising for this beer absolutely everywhere in both provinces, and they are beers that are especially associated with pride in their province (and football team).










After taking a trip to New Brunswick to see my grandparents and see their province as a teenager, I soon came to feel like New Brunswick was like a smaller, coastal Saskatchewan, and the similarities with Alpine and Pilsner beer advertising plastered everywhere or people buying/ collecting the merchandise was a big part of why I felt the two provinces were similar, along with the demographics of the province between multiple cities, not just one like Winnipeg or Halifax.

I think New Brunswick, not Nova Scotia has the best chance in Canada to successfully emulate the secret sauce that makes the Saskatchewan Roughriders successful as a province wide CFL team... while Halifax would be a good analogue for Winnipeg.

Halifax/Nova Scotia is analogous to Winnipeg/Manitoba, as the primate city and capital of each province. Whereas New Brunswick is more analogous to Saskatchewan, without a primate city, and who's biggest city is not the capital.


In the Saskatchewan vs Winnipeg rivalry (the greatest rivalry in the CFL), there's a lot more Sask fans that make the trip to Winnipeg than Winnipeg fans that make the trip to Regina. I'd imagine it would be a similar situation between a New Brunswick team and a Halifax team, where more NB fans would actually travel to support their team than vice versa.

What makes the CFL so great is the regional rivalries. I've taken the liberty to map it out, and think adding teams in Victoria, Moncton, and Halifax would be a great way to even out the two conferences for a league of 12.



12 teams, 6 natural rivalries



The CFL should chill out a bit too with their super strict standards for stadium quality and minimum seating capacities. It's a league of marginal popularity, and they shouldn't make the bar for expansion teams so high if they actually want to grow their league.

One good thing the CFL has going for them in terms of expansion and getting governments to support funding for stadiums, is the rising popularity of soccer. The rising popularity of soccer could make governments much more willing to fund the construction of new stadiums or expanding existing ones. There should be professional soccer teams at every CFL stadium in Canada.


All that being said, still hope we see Moncton get a CPL before a CFL, but maybe it's possible to get them both at the same time.

[irisheyes]

...Not this again lol.

It won't happen in New Brunswick. The idea that you perpetually depend on fans travelling 2+ hours to go see a game— every single home game— is not practical or sustainable. Even in this pipe-dream scenario fans may indulge in the long commute to see a couple games for the inaugural season for the novelty, but long term it would never fly. MAYBE Halifax. Even still, a risk.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by irisheyes

...Not this again lol.

It won't happen in New Brunswick. The idea that you perpetually depend on fans travelling 2+ hours to go see a game— every single home game— is not practical or sustainable. Even in this pipe-dream scenario fans may indulge in the long commute to see a couple games for the inaugural season for the novelty, but long term it would never fly. MAYBE Halifax. Even still, a risk.

lmao, I'm not even a CFL fan, but the Atlantic Schooners have been getting brought up for decades now while absolutely nothing has happened, yet some ppl talk about them as if they will be a huge success... I just don't see it... not on their own without a regional rival.

I just don't see CFL expansion into the Maritimes being successful unless there is a natural rivalry between two teams. Greater Moncton is basically the same population as Regina back in 2007... the first season they won the Grey Cup since 1989. Yet, even after almost two decades of failure, they were rabidly supported by Reginans and people from all over the province that would travel to Regina for games.

Obviously, it's not a sure thing that a New Brunswick branded team in Moncton would be as wildly supported province wide as the Saskatchewan Roughriders are in Saskatchewan, but I really do think New Brunswick is more like Saskatchewan, while Halifax/Nova Scotia is more like Winnipeg/Manitoba. Toronto is dead last in CFL attendance, and Montreal is in the bottom half. Regina and Winnipeg have the highest attendance in the CFL, while Reinga is the smallest city in the CFL (and Winnipeg third smallest). I guess the CFL really resonates with Canadians in smaller cities and rural Canada.

Some of the biggest Saskatchewan Roughrider fans are from small towns hours away from Regina. Winnipeg it's mainly just people from Winnipeg and surrounding area. There's even some Roughrider fans in Western Manitoba that cheer for the Riders, because they don't like Winnipeg. I wonder if there would be any Nova Scotians who'd cheer for the New Brunswick CFL team over a Halifax team, because they don't like Halifax.

There's only 9 regular season home games per year, I don't think it's a huge stretch that a New Brunswick Buccaneers or some other named CFL team could average 20k+ tickets sold for like 10-12 home games per year depending on the playoffs.

Though, if the CFL was open to it, and Moncton and Saint John both expanded and renovated their stadiums, perhaps both cities could have professional soccer teams of their own, and co-host a New Brunswick branded CFL team. From what I hear Fredericton is more of a UNB sports town, but maybe they could even be in the mix too. However, from what I understand, the CFL has far too strict of minimum standards for stadium amenities and capacities, for what must be something like the 15th most popular sports league in North America... or maybe lower.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Quebec City will have a team long before Moncton ever has a team. I don’t know why QC was never really looked at for CFL. It has formerly hosted the NHL so there is support for pro sports in the city.

[someone123]

I don't think it's correct to say Moncton is closer to a stadium. Their existing stadium has a track, and it would be harder for them to raise whatever money is required for a CFL stadium as Moncton is a smaller city. Halifax's municipal budget is about 5x the size of Moncton's.

The difference in market sizes is quite large. Halifax would have around 600-700k within an hour of the stadium and I'd guess the total income in that area would be about on par with or above all of NB.

I can't say what the rivalry would do but there isn't much feeling of rivalry in Halifax with other parts of Atlantic Canada. I would say there is more of an "underdog" feeling in other cities around the region.

[MonctonRad]

Typical Halifax attitude.

We don't want to play Moncton. We're a BIG city now, we want to play Toronto!! We didn't join the CFL to play fucking Moncton, Jesus Christ........!

[elly63]

Moncton shouldn't even be in the conversation.

We have the same guy who admits he knows nothing about the CFL who keeps bringing up the same ridiculous "points" and cross posting them and they have been corrected several times.

One time he tells us the CFL is dying and the next he says they should expand to every other city in Canada. Loves soccer though.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

Quebec City will have a team long before Moncton ever has a team. I don’t know why QC was never really looked at for CFL. It has formerly hosted the NHL so there is support for pro sports in the city.

Owner, stadium, fanbase. Without them no team.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by elly63

Owner, stadium, fanbase. Without them no team.

Owner - there are billionaires in NB. There is actually more old family wealth in NB than NS, but, I don't get the impression that any of them is that interested in risking their fortune on a CFL team. Scott McCain and Robert Irving do have QMJHL teams, but, this is a less expensive and less risky venture. I know the Moncton Wildcats are profitable. I have no information on the Sea Dogs.

Stadium - Le Stade Croix Bleue Medavie at l'Universite de Moncton does not cut it as a football stadium. It is shy of 10,000 seats, the majority of which are bleacher style, lacking basic amenities, and is saddled with an athletic track. UdeM tends to treat the stadium as a fief, and would be unlikely to support conversion to a public football stadium. A Moncton team would require a 20,000 seat purpose built stadium with ample parking located well away from the university campus. This would likely cost about $250M.

Fanbase - Football is very popular in Moncton, only slightly less than hockey. The entire eastern conference of the NB High School Football League is located in greater Moncton and nearby Sackville - seven teams total. Some high school games (homecoming games and playoffs) can generate crowds of up to 5,000 spectators. As an outsider who moved to Moncton, it was quite a revelation to see how passionate the local fans are. All three of my sons played high school football, with my youngest named to Team NB and playing in the Football Canada Cup in London ON. He is now the special teams coordinator for Moncton High School.

So, a local fan base most definitely exists. What may not exist is the population base. The Moncton CMA is now just shy of 200k. This is not enough. I am under no illusion that we would see thousands of Saint Johners and Frederictonians making their way to Moncton every two weeks to watch games. I imagine the base minimum population needed to support a CFL team is likely 300-350k. Maybe check back in 50 years time.......

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Meanwhile, significant challenges also exist for Halifax. An ownership group does not exist, and probably the only way a team could be financed is if it was community owner with shares sold on a wide basis to the Halifax population. I am convinced (having lived in Halifax for nine years), that the fanbase in HRM is not as passionate as the one in Moncton. This is of course made up for by the fact that Halifax is 2.5x the size of Moncton. Still, it could be a struggle to get 25,000 bums in the stands, especially if the team is struggling. Finally, there is no football specific stadium in Halifax, and the city is financially strapped and unlikely to want to participate in funding the construction of such a stadium. The province is similarly uninterested. A community owned team would not be sufficiently capitalized to build a stadium on it's own.

Final verdict - there will be no Maritime CFL team, at least for 20-25 years.

[someone123]

I have heard the NB land of billionaires argument a few times but without much evidence presented. There is Irving and McCain. They are not based in Moncton. Halifax has its own billionaires as does NS. So far, the number who have seriously tried to start up a CFL team in NB or NS appears to be 0.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by someone123

I have heard the NB land of billionaires argument a few times but without much evidence presented. There is Irving and McCain. They are not based in Moncton. Halifax has its own billionaires as does NS. So far, the number who have seriously tried to start up a CFL team in NB or NS appears to be 0.

Robert Irving and his sister Mary Jean both live in Moncton. There are several other individuals in the city with net worths well north of $200M.

But, regardless, I do not argue with your premise that the interest amongst NS and NB based billionaires in owning a CFL franchise is effectively zero.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by elly63

Moncton shouldn't even be in the conversation.

We have the same guy who admits he knows nothing about the CFL who keeps bringing up the same ridiculous "points" and cross posting them and they have been corrected several times.

One time he tells us the CFL is dying and the next he says they should expand to every other city in Canada. Loves soccer though.

Greater Moncton is basically the same population as Regina in 2007.

Second of all, I've never once said I know nothing about the CFL, just that I don't follow it or really care about it beyond a cultural capacity. Football isn't my game. I'm a hockey and basketball guy that sometimes enjoys baseball and real football ⚽️

I did watch the Grey Cup though, and didn't see a whole lot of Montreal fans in the stands. It was full of Saskatchewan Roughrider fans though.

From the Toronto Star in 2011:

The CFL Saskatchewan Roughriders have the "third highest merchandise sales of all Canadian sports teams, behind only" the Maple Leafs and the Canadiens, and the Roughriders last year made C$10M "in merchandise alone, the most in Canadian Football League history," according to Wendy Gillis of the TORONTO STAR.

from the CBC in 2016:





I don't care THAT much, let alone arguing with you all day, Elly, but it's long been common knowledge that the Saskatchewan Roughriders are one of the most well supported professional sports teams in Canada according to jerseys and merchandise sales. I wasn't able to find the most recent statistics for merchandise sales, but I'd surprised if the Riders were not still in the top 5, ahead of many Canadian NHL teams.



I think a NB CFL team could also be near the top of this graph.


I think it's ridiculous you're trying to gate keep which cities can be in the conversation for expansion in a league of marginal popularity not just within context of North America, but within the context of Canada.

I happen to think Moncton could eventually be the second or third best CFL city beyond Regina and Winnipeg, and Halifax could be up there too. Regina is the only market in the CFL to not be in an NHL market (Hamilton is in the Leafs Market) and the Riders being the only game in town, or province for that matter, is a huge part of why they are so successful and so damn popular.

The Bombers were the only game in town in Winnipeg from 1996-2011 (before the Jets came back) and that support has carried over a bit since the Jet's return, but the Bombers have definitely been overshadowed by the return of the NHL to Winnipeg. If it wasn't for the rivalry with the Riders, the support might have trailed off even more post Jets 2.0.

Nonetheless, I don't think I've ever once said the "CFL is dying", although you probably could say that its popularity in the rest of Canada outside of the current 9 CFL markets is dwindling or even non existent in some places across the country, including Toronto, the CFL city with the most Grey Cups.

I know you like to bring up official viewing statistics for the CFL compared to the MLS, CPL, and other soccer leagues around the world, Elly, but I think we all know that a huge amount of soccer fans in Canada are watching leagues around the world via non official mediums, and thus are not showing up in official viewer statistics reports for sports in Canada.

I might not be a CFL fan, and think it's a marginally popular league that I have very little interest in watching, but I do find the cultural aspect of CFL fandom, and the rivalries, to be very interesting. The Saskatchewan Roughriders are a cultural phenomenon, and it wasn't that long ago that Regina was a CMA of barely more than 200,000 people. They were selling all those jerseys around the province back in the 90's too, when both Regina and Saskatoon were positively "tiny" compared to the rest of the cities in the CFL.

I think it's simply hilarious that you think my arguments and views on CFL expansion to the Maritimes or the analogies between SK/MB & NB/NS are ridiculous ideas that have been "corrected". If i recall correctly, I think you said previously over on the main Canada forum that it would be a mistake for a Halifax CFL team to go with a different name than the Atlantic Schooners since it has the broadest appeal and almost 50 years of name recognition lol.

I think the only name recognition the "Atlantic Schooners" have from the last 50 years is that of being an obscure, non existent team that's only been talked about and has never actually happened.

It's of my opinion that a CFL expansion to the Maritimes is doomed to fail... Unless, the CFL executives put down the ledger sheets, stop counting seats and amenities in stadiums, and look at why the Roughriders are so successful in Saskatchewan, and why the Blue Bombers are so successful in Winnipeg... and then ask them themselves, how can we replicate this success in New Brunswick and Halifax.

The Atlantic Schooners model of a one team in Halifax for the entirety of Atlantic Canada sure is hell not trying to emulate or replicate the success of the two most well supported teams in the CFL... instead, it's a hail mary moonshot that's still up in the air with not a single billionaire or group of millionaires on the ground in Halifax ready to catch the ball and run with the idea... and thank goodness for that, because I truly do believe that a CFL expansion into the Maritimes with a single team in Halifax would be doomed to fail.

The idea of an interprovincial team is basically contrary to everything that makes the CFL good and interesting from a cultural standpoint. If we lived in an alternative history where Saskatchewan Roughriders never existed because league was too myopic to allow a team in a city as small as Regina, and instead there was only a CFL team in Winnipeg called the Prairie Wildfire, that were supposed to represent the entire prairies outside of Calgary and Edmonton, do we think many people from Saskatchewan would travel to Winnipeg, or support the team because it's a "Prairie" team? I certainly don't think many if any people from Saskatchewan would care about this team, but maybe they'd hate Winnipeg a lot less.

Not sure why anyone at this point thinks the Atlantic Schooners in Halifax as a team for the entire region of Atlantic Canada is a good idea.



The only thing they seemed to get right with the Atlantic Schooners in terms of emulating the Blue Bombers, was the colour scheme. The team should be a Halifax branded team, with a regional rival the province over in New Brunswick. Neither the Winnipeg Blue Bombers nor the Saskatchewan Roughriders would be as wildly successful as they are today without their strong, regional rivalry. I know Quebec City was mentioned, but I don't see a rivalry between Halifax and Quebec City going anywhere, but maybe Moncton and Quebec City could be a somewhat decent rivalry, since there is the whole Acadian vs Quebecois dynamic, along with NB/QC being neighbouring provinces.

So while I don't agree that 350k+ is the minimum required population to sustain a CFL team, I do agree with MonctonRad that it's probably best to just wait for the population to grow more and for ownership groups to step up.

That being said, $250 million to build a stadium isn't really much for the Irvings or McCains, and it's not like they wouldn't be able to find financing or a group of investors to be part of the ownership group, or lobby the government for partial funding.

New Brunswick is going to be hosting the Canada Games in 2029... that's more than enough time for some billionaires to pop out of the woodwork and propose building a CFL Stadium for the 2029 Canada Games with the intention to bring a CFL and CPL franchise to Moncton following the Canada Games. Plus, if an ownership group was willing to step up with funding for a new stadium, I'm sure they could probably convince the GNB and the municipal governments of the Moncton Region to fund half the costs of the stadium.

I just think it would be a mistake for the CFL to expand into the Maritimes with a single team in Halifax, and if they are too risk averse to trying to replicate the greatest regional rivalry in their leagues (SK vs WPG) out east with New Brunswick and Halifax, then what's the point of even expanding?

I saw it mentioned a few pages (and years ago) back that Moncton has more passionate sports fans than Halifax has. I'd say that sounds a lot like the situation in Regina and Winnipeg. Regina is absolutely full of Rider fans, but Winnipeg has lots of people who don't follow or care about the team. Don't get me wrong, the Bombers do have a very large group of loud, hardcore fans that support the team, it's nothing like the situation in Regina where the team has mass appeal across the city... and even outside of Regina, people are huge, huge fans of the Riders, even in Saskatoon, which has a huge rivalry with Regina that could compare to the one between Moncton and Saint John. Regina only got the team because they were founded in 1910 and Regina was a much bigger city than Saskatoon back then.

There's a lot of reasons why I think New Brunswick is the best place to replicate the cultural phenomenon that is Saskatchewan Roughrider fandom, and without risking offending anyone, a lot of it has to do with the "folksy charm" and strong "rural" influences that permeate the membrane between rural and urban life in both cities in Saskatchewan and New Brunswick. Both provinces are full of incredibly proud people, who might not love their rival cities, but do love their province. I truly do believe a New Brunswick CFL team could be a success, because of these similarities with Saskatchewan... and I don't think that's a ridiculous thing to believe, it's just my opinion.

I wouldn't be opposed to the province stepping up to partially fund a stadium in Moncton if it meant getting a CFL team, even though I don't personally live in Moncton or care much about the CFL, I think it could be a good thing for the province. Maybe Moncton getting a CFL and a CPL team would motivate our local own billionaires in the Saint John Region to team up with the province and regional municipalities to get a CPL team in the Port City. Port City FC has quite a nice ring to it.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Robert Irving and his sister Mary Jean both live in Moncton. There are several other individuals in the city with net worths well north of $200M.

I'm not saying there aren't rich people in Moncton/NB, just that Halifax/NS have them too, and all else being equal you'd expect more billionaires in Halifax as it's a larger city. So without further explanation it's not a good example of why the CFL is more likely to set up shop in Moncton.

Some local examples are Kenneth Rowe (IMP) and John Risley (Clearwater) and you can see some large local mansions of some of these people.

I'm also skeptical of the narrative that Moncton is a football-crazed Regina-like city and meaningfully more enthusiastic than Halifax.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Meanwhile, significant challenges also exist for Halifax. An ownership group does not exist, and probably the only way a team could be financed is if it was community owner with shares sold on a wide basis to the Halifax population. I am convinced (having lived in Halifax for nine years), that the fanbase in HRM is not as passionate as the one in Moncton. This is of course made up for by the fact that Halifax is 2.5x the size of Moncton. Still, it could be a struggle to get 25,000 bums in the stands, especially if the team is struggling. Finally, there is no football specific stadium in Halifax, and the city is financially strapped and unlikely to want to participate in funding the construction of such a stadium. The province is similarly uninterested. A community owned team would not be sufficiently capitalized to build a stadium on it's own.

Final verdict - there will be no Maritime CFL team, at least for 20-25 years.

Agreed with the first part of your post until this quoted part. I have told the whole story about the Montreal Alouettes and the CFL's investment bank Park Lane and the potential owner Rob Steele. I am wondering if I am getting shadowbanned because no one ever wants to talk about it.

I get no pleasure in saying the CPL might not be in great shape having just lost Valour and there are three teams below Valour in attendance. So if Halifax is considering any type of 10k stadium they should keep the CFL in mind.

Also with modern amenities and party plazas you're looking more at 20k than 25k as a number teams can work with.

As for 20-25 years, one thing I have learned is some things move quickly and others don't. The most important part an owner can be a quick process (see Montreal, Edmonton) building a stadium takes about eight years from first serious render to final completion. Also the same time span that most artificial turfs are replaced

[elly63]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Robert Irving and his sister Mary Jean both live in Moncton. There are several other individuals in the city with net worths well north of $200M.

But, regardless, I do not argue with your premise that the interest amongst NS and NB based billionaires in owning a CFL franchise is effectively zero.

We don't know the interest because no one wants to talk about or report on the story of Rob Steele whether he was interested or not.

I knew Mr and Mrs. Dockendorf in PEI and back in the day she seemed like a reluctant entrepreneur. Definitely a behind the scenes woman.

The CFL is pretty much now a billionaires club. You're probably looking at around 800 million to get in there now.

In 2013, Amar Doman was the Mr Irrelevant of the richest people in Canada coming in last at number 100 with 654 million (as if that is an insult). He has been busy making several acquisitions since then.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by someone123

I'm also skeptical of the narrative that Moncton is a football-crazed Regina-like city and meaningfully more enthusiastic than Halifax.

Let's not go that far but Moncton does have quite a few schools playing football.

But there's where I raise history again. To be successful this has to be a Maritime venture. As a comparison 50% of Rider fans come from outside Regina. Am I saying that same number would come from NB, no. But I think it could be a decent number and again historically speaking people from NB are more likely to go to NS than the other way around.

For this to happen there will need to be some out of the box thinking regarding a stadium and where it is placed and how it is financed.

The federal government just gave 5 million to women's soccer so they are back in the pro sport funding business. There are options to how a stadium can be built (even a temp one lasting eight years)

But this all goes nowhere without a visionary. Where's Jeff Hunt when you need him?

[lirette]

Its true that Moncton has a terrific support for high school football, and I think people would be shocked to see how many people attend games. Go check out a HTHS/MHS homecoming game, you couldnt fit a shoestring at that facility. I'm talking standing room 4 / 5 rows deep. The GMFA program continues to grow at a grassroots level and theyve even reached a point where they now have *several* u18 womens football teams after having zero just 5 years ago. But the difference is its easy to fill the stands at 5$ and $3 tickets than it is for tickets starting at $50 or higher.

My experience with Moncton is that they are a great city to support an "event" thats marketed as such. QMJHL Finals, World Juniors, Wildcats NYE game, concerts on the hill, CHL Top Prospects game, Canada/US women's game and even the CFL one offs when they were properly supported and marketed all do well. They are also a city with strong corporate support and have many companies that would likely get season tickets/boxes/sponsorships.

But on a week to week basis the city tends to be "cheap" with tickets, and you will always have people waiting for steep discounts or giveaways to attend anything outside of these events.

I don't bother with Moncton/Halifax rivalry discussions as to me comparing cities that difference in size isn't useful. Moncton is a city that punches well above its size, and I think Halifax is a city that does that also. It makes more sense to compare Moncton to Saint John, Fredericton, Trois-Rivières, Sagenuay etc.

Personally I think the CFL is in a weird spot right now, some of their fans are on edge about some of the incoming rule changes and that they are going to lose the uniqueness of their game in the coming years. Its a risky time to get involved in the league and try to put a team on the field.

I'm with MonctonRad. I don't think the CFL is coming to either Moncton or Halifax in the next 20 years. The political appetite for stadium building or stadium renovating when it comes to Moncton is effectively zero. The idea we would have not 1 but 2 CFL teams here anytime soon, is a complete pipedream.

[drewber]

Originally Posted by lirette

Its true that Moncton has a terrific support for high school football, and I think people would be shocked to see how many people attend games. Go check out a HTHS/MHS homecoming game, you couldnt fit a shoestring at that facility. I'm talking standing room 4 / 5 rows deep. The GMFA program continues to grow at a grassroots level and theyve even reached a point where they now have *several* u18 womens football teams after having zero just 5 years ago. But the difference is its easy to fill the stands at 5$ and $3 tickets than it is for tickets starting at $50 or higher.

My experience with Moncton is that they are a great city to support an "event" thats marketed as such. QMJHL Finals, World Juniors, Wildcats NYE game, concerts on the hill, CHL Top Prospects game, Canada/US women's game and even the CFL one offs when they were properly supported and marketed all do well. They are also a city with strong corporate support and have many companies that would likely get season tickets/boxes/sponsorships.

But on a week to week basis the city tends to be "cheap" with tickets, and you will always have people waiting for steep discounts or giveaways to attend anything outside of these events.

I don't bother with Moncton/Halifax rivalry discussions as to me comparing cities that difference in size isn't useful. Moncton is a city that punches well above its size, and I think Halifax is a city that does that also. It makes more sense to compare Moncton to Saint John, Fredericton, Trois-Rivières, Sagenuay etc.

Personally I think the CFL is in a weird spot right now, some of their fans are on edge about some of the incoming rule changes and that they are going to lose the uniqueness of their game in the coming years. Its a risky time to get involved in the league and try to put a team on the field.

I'm with MonctonRad. I don't think the CFL is coming to either Moncton or Halifax in the next 20 years. The political appetite for stadium building or stadium renovating when it comes to Moncton is effectively zero. The idea we would have not 1 but 2 CFL teams here anytime soon, is a complete pipedream.

Instead of the CFL why not start a MFL get a couple cities from NB, NS and PEI and see how attendance is. The wildcats are barely breaking 5k average attendance this year. Let's see if 6 teams can attract an audience playing 5 games to start.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by drewber

Instead of the CFL why not start a MFL get a couple cities from NB, NS and PEI and see how attendance is. The wildcats are barely breaking 5k average attendance this year. Let's see if 6 teams can attract an audience playing 5 games to start.

There is a Maritime Football League

https://www.maritimefootballleague.com/

Six teams (three from NB, three from NS), It is a senior football league and a lot of the players are ex university footballers with a small spattering of former professional players.

The schedule is six games, in the late spring followed by a two round playoff.

The league is 24 years old. The champion is almost invariably from Moncton or Saint John. It is a low key but highly competitive league with good calibre game play.