[Saint John, NB] Kennebecasis Valley Developments

[bingun]

The proposed development is going back to council this evening. I skimmed through the agenda, and there are considerably more comments than previously following the public meeting. Pages 165-230 in the document for anyone interested.

https://www.rothesay.ca/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/2025August11OpenSessionFINAL_Redacted.pdf

However, the highlight of the agenda is the quote below from the July 15th PAC meeting, prior to the public meeting. Time to stop slacking and make more comments!

There was a brief discussion about public attendance at the July 21st meeting. It was noted there does not seem to be as much interest as there was for other proposals for the property. This may be because a rezoning is not required, and there is a significant residential portion to the mixed-use development. K. Adams mentioned she has heard some interest from adjacent property owners. DPDS Reade noted the project was mentioned on the online discussion forum Skyscraper for developments in Atlantic Canada but there were no comments made. He added that the connection to the Wedgewood Drive area would be more of a pedestrian trail than a road which may mitigate some concerns of nearby residents.

[DyAm00394]

Council has voted tonight to approve this major 1,277-unit development.

[ivegotaname]

Build a sports facility with more then 10k seats in the venue.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

The proposed development is going back to council this evening. I skimmed through the agenda, and there are considerably more comments than previously following the public meeting. Pages 165-230 in the document for anyone interested.

https://www.rothesay.ca/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/2025August11OpenSessionFINAL_Redacted.pdf

However, the highlight of the agenda is the quote below from the July 15th PAC meeting, prior to the public meeting. Time to stop slacking and make more comments!

LOL, nice!

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

LOL, nice!

Well, we've known for a long time that SSP is watched by a lot of people, mainly the media but apparently also the City Councils.

[bingun]

Major Rothesay development moves forward with amendments to mitigate impacts

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-bruns...pment-housing-council-approval-1.7606529

The agreement for the project to move forward includes new provisions so that clear cutting of trees is "only done to that which is necessary to facilitate construction of and servicing of the phase under development" said the town's deputy mayor Matt Alexander, reading the added amendments aloud.

The town will also zone the connecting area between the proposed neighbourhood and Wedgewood Drive as a "recreation zone," meaning it will be a pedestrian-only connection, to mitigate potential for increased vehicle traffic in the neighbourhood.

A third amendment asks the developer to do a groundwater assessment or create a water contingency plan before the first phase of construction begins.

Relatively minor and reasonable amendments, in my opinion.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Well, we've known for a long time that SSP is watched by a lot of people, mainly the media but apparently also the City Councils.

If you look at the number of views many of our threads have, they are in the millions. It's pretty obvious there are lots of people out there keeping an eye on us.

[bingun]

There is a 200K commercial building permit for 82 Hampton Road. I assume Big D's, the bubble tea place, and Global Pet Foods aren't going anywhere, so this must be for the 4th and final vacant unit. I am not sure who is moving in, but I will take a look next time I drive by that way.

There is also a smaller building permit for 93 Hampton Road, the old location of the Cheese Curds franchise before it closed. I assume someone is occupying that too.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by bingun

There is a 200K commercial building permit for 82 Hampton Road. I assume Big D's, the bubble tea place, and Global Pet Foods aren't going anywhere, so this must be for the 4th and final vacant unit. I am not sure who is moving in, but I will take a look next time I drive by that way.

There is also a smaller building permit for 93 Hampton Road, the old location of the Cheese Curds franchise before it closed. I assume someone is occupying that too.

93 Hampton Road is now a dry cleaner's. I haven't figured out 82 Hampton Road yet, but I could see work ongoing as I drove by.

A Barburrito's restaurant was approved for 184 Hampton Road. Apparently, there is already one in Fredericton, but I have never been.

[bingun]

There was an open house last night for the redesign of Hampton Road (Quispamsis section). They appear to be debating two options: one with a multi-purpose path and one focused solely on pedestrians.

From my understanding, they have to rip up the whole street next year anyway for water infrastructure, so I am glad they are discussing this.

The link below has the details -

https://speakupland.ca/reimagine-hampton-road

However, I think this is going to be kind of odd if they go the multi-purpose route, as it will abruptly end when they reach the Rothesay section. Maybe there is a plan for that, but Hampton Road has always been awkward due to it being in two municipalities.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Good catch on this, I hadn't checked the Quispamsis council agendas recently. I've included some more information and additional images below.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

https://urbanplans.blogspot.com/2023/08/k-park-common-beach.html

I came across this blog from a former Saint John SSPer, PersonPlaceorThing. This post in particular I found interesting.

Is this whole red area really a beach open to the public? Sounds like a nice place to go have a picnic.

I guess another question is how would they react if people from Saint John started coming to enjoy this public beach.

[thefishingnut]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I came across this blog from a former Saint John SSPer, PersonPlaceorThing. This post in particular I found interesting.

Is this whole red area really a beach open to the public? Sounds like a nice place to go have a picnic.

Landowners don't own the beach for tidal. The caveat is you can't trespass to access it, but if there is a public access, say at the end of Cameron Road, you can walk the shoreline.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by thefishingnut

Landowners don't own the beach for tidal. The caveat is you can't trespass to access it, but if there is a public access, say at the end of Cameron Road, you can walk the shoreline.

No need for a canoe then… that’s good to know. Sounds like there’s more public beach infrastructure at Kennebecasis Park than all of Saint John’s Bay of Fundy beaches put together. Have to check it out sometime

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by thefishingnut

Landowners don't own the beach for tidal. The caveat is you can't trespass to access it, but if there is a public access, say at the end of Cameron Road, you can walk the shoreline.

The red area is entirely public property, which is significantly larger than just the tidal water mark, it was deliberately set up that way back when the subdivision was first established. If you look at the aerial photo you can see just how much these landowners have encroached onto the public space with their own gardens, paths, sheds, gazebos, etc.

Growing up in Rothesay I first learned about the fact that all of the homes in the older part of K-Park don't own half their backyards and used to hang out/swim on them as a teenager sometimes. It definitely pissed off homeowners [in hindsight, I don't blame them for feeling that way] and almost none of them knew that they didn't own the space.

I always envisioned a public path running beside the water along the perimeter of the subdivision's peninsula, but I am sure the political will would never exist to allow it

[thefishingnut]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

The red area is entirely public property, which is significantly larger than just the tidal water mark, it was deliberately set up that way back when the subdivision was first established. If you look at the aerial photo you can see just how much these landowners have encroached onto the public space with their own gardens, paths, sheds, gazebos, etc.

Growing up in Rothesay I first learned about the fact that all of the homes in the older part of K-Park don't own half their backyards and used to hang out/swim on them as a teenager sometimes. It definitely pissed off homeowners [in hindsight, I don't blame them for feeling that way] and almost none of them knew that they didn't own the space.

I always envisioned a public path running beside the water along the perimeter of the subdivision's peninsula, but I am sure the political will would never exist to allow it

I had heard the parameter is 10m above high tide line is public land - for most of us that area is covered by the freshet so isn't suitable for anything permanent. We're not in KPark, but in Quispamsis.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

The red area is entirely public property, which is significantly larger than just the tidal water mark, it was deliberately set up that way back when the subdivision was first established. If you look at the aerial photo you can see just how much these landowners have encroached onto the public space with their own gardens, paths, sheds, gazebos, etc.

Growing up in Rothesay I first learned about the fact that all of the homes in the older part of K-Park don't own half their backyards and used to hang out/swim on them as a teenager sometimes. It definitely pissed off homeowners [in hindsight, I don't blame them for feeling that way] and almost none of them knew that they didn't own the space.

I always envisioned a public path running beside the water along the perimeter of the subdivision's peninsula, but I am sure the political will would never exist to allow it

Is this Cameron road the only way to access the beach/ public land shaded red?


I think younger you was on to something it’s fine to recognize that you being there might have pissed them off, but this is a really nice part of the Saint John Region that should be open to the public if it’s all public land. Your hometown of Rothesay is a nice place, but it seems a lot of the people there have very stuck up attitudes. The first time I had a reason to go to Rothesay was to use the rink, since Saint John has such poor outdoor hockey and skating facilities. I also found about the “burly teens” hullabaloo lol


Personally, I’ve always envisioned a multiplex 4 ice surface rink on the border of Saint John and Rothesay (with the red line as the “border” between Saint John and Rothesay).

Would be nice if the Province, Regional Service Commission, and other relevant actors could make that happen one day in an equally co-funded model, in addition the of the new planned Rothesay Arena.

Even better would be if there was also an outdoor hockey rink on this border between Rothesay and Saint John. Saint John doesn’t have a single outdoor hockey rink with boards that is open through the winter. Rothesay has a great outdoor rink, however, the hockey schedule for that rink and the list of rules is anything but great.

An outdoor hockey rink would be a great joint project for the City of Saint John and Town and Rothesay that residents from both municipalities would get a lot of use out of.

If Rothesay, Saint John, and other municipalities in the region worked together a bit more on joint projects, all of our communities would have a lot more to show for it.

[thefishingnut]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Is this Cameron road the only way to access the beach/ public land shaded red?

A few spots with water access in the valley. Cameron has is a small park on the river. This is a popular access point in the winter, (there is a winter fishing village) along with Renforth. I believe there is a small public beach in KPark with access, although I've never visited there. East Riverside (across from the golf course) is pretty popular, lots of kayakers and wind surfers use it for access and there are some facilities there along with lots of parking. And there is a beach at the Gondola Point Ferry (there is a parking lot across the road from the beach). Meenans Cove is pretty good. So there are a few options with no stress you could be pushing a nearby landowners buttons.

Quite a bit of development of off-street walking trails in Rothesay and Quispamsis in recent years worth a visit.

[magee_b]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

https://urbanplans.blogspot.com/2023/08/k-park-common-beach.html

I came across this blog from a former Saint John SSPer, PersonPlaceorThing. This post in particular I found interesting.

Is this whole red area really a beach open to the public? Sounds like a nice place to go have a picnic.

I guess another question is how would they react if people from Saint John started coming to enjoy this public beach.

It's really not a beach per-say. There are lots of little ridges of rocky shoreline along the Kennebecasis that naturally cause little beach-like areas to form. Homeowners with access have often just moved some of the rock to expose more sand - but in reality there's not much there, and near impossible to truly access without trespassing in some form.

Plenty of other designated and easily accessible options in the valley - K-park beach (which is actually included in the image taken above), renforth beach, jordan miller, gondola point and meenans cove are all well established.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Sounds like there will be a funding announcement for the new Rothesay Arena and Intergenerational Community Complex: