Residential Real Estate in your city

[Steely Dan]

Yeah, I lived comfortably enough in a 450 SF studio in a downtown Chicago highrise for many years back in my bachelor days.

I wouldn't want to still be living there now that I'm married with two kids, but it was a great way for me to affordably live in the heart of the city.

The staggering thing about those small NYC apartments in the videos isn't their size, it's their price tags!

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Yeah, I lived comfortably enough in a 450 SF studio in a downtown Chicago highrise for many years back in my bachelor days.

I wouldn't want to still be living there now that I'm married with two kids, but it was a great way for me to affordably live in the heart of the city.

The staggering thing about those small NYC apartments in the videos isn't their size, it's their price tags!

That was actually also part of my point, but I guess I left that part out! Maybe I assumed that most people would agree with me that $3500 or whatever or more for apartments that size is ridiculous? We would not pay that much for an apartment that size, which means I guess we would not live in NYC!

Originally Posted by mhays

Pretty classist that the video guy doesn't like tiny units. If people can't afford a bigger place, they should live in the gutter instead? Sorry your highness.

Assuming that was directed at me, I wasn't being classist, obviously these aren't cheap hovels and are not being promoted as such, I guess I was being more of a "size-for-price"-ist. Did you even watch the videos?

And 🞵🞵🞵 is this?? I would think that these wouldn't even be legal ANYWHERE:

Flush and wash with cold water?


Take a dump and wash your hair at the same time? Straddle the bowl to wash your hands and brush your teeth?


For thousands per month?

Originally Posted by Crawford

Not everyone needs that stuff.

In my 20's, I had no use for anything in housing except for a bed, shower and sink. I was working 80-100 hour weeks at times, and the rest of the time I'd either be sleeping, traveling or out and about town. .

Dayam, in your 20s? When did you even have time for sleeping, traveling or being out and about town? Enjoying your youth?

Originally Posted by edale

...have you never heard of a studio apartment before? Why are you acting so brand new as if living in small spaces is absolutely unheard of? These small units obviously aren't meant for 2 people with lots of stuff, but they work fine for some people.

Yes of course I have heard of studio apartments. And that's the thing, only the last video was a studio apartment. Again, I was more appalled and incredulous at the size (and configuration) of these apartments and the rent for them! Yikes!

[mhays]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

I fixed the thread title for you.

Thank you!!

[mhays]

I was talking about the video person, not you sopas ej.

The price is what's necessary to develop these places. If they could be cheaper, someone would undercut them. New places are always expensive.

Washington State recently passed a law that local areas have to allow true micros down to single bedrooms with shared kitchen/bath, i.e. dorm-style units. Seattle did this for a while through a loophole, then closed the loophole but allowed larger units around 280 sf + with two sinks required. Both types are popular. Cities have been changing their codes to allow the smallest types, and we'll see more built soon.

Some of the units from the loophole days are in the three figures even with their own bathrooms. The 280 sf kind are often not far into four figures. That's a miracle. And they'll get slowly cheaper over the years as any apartment type will do.

I lived with roommates for several years long ago, and also lived in a hotel room for four months once. I'd have loved a micro vs. the roommate thing.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by mhays

I was talking about the video person, not you sopas ej.

The price is what's necessary to develop these places. If they could be cheaper, someone would undercut them. New places are always expensive.

Washington State recently passed a law that local areas have to allow true micros down to single bedrooms with shared kitchen/bath, i.e. dorm-style units. Seattle did this for a while through a loophole, then closed the loophole but allowed larger units around 280 sf + with two sinks required. Both types are popular. Cities have been changing their codes to allow the smallest types, and we'll see more built soon.

Some of the units from the loophole days are in the three figures even with their own bathrooms. The 280 sf kind are often not far into four figures. That's a miracle. And they'll get slowly cheaper over the years as any apartment type will do.

I lived with roommates for several years long ago, and also lived in a hotel room for four months once. I'd have loved a micro vs. the roommate thing.

When I was working out in the Bay Area a few years ago, I rented a 400/sf ADU and enjoyed it but I still had 3000/sf house here in Houston so had the opportunity to live in both worlds for a while. That apartment made me appreciate having less clutter and we started decluttering our house when I got back.

280/ sf is a bit cramped for me though. That's smaller than my bedroom.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by mhays

I was talking about the video person, not you sopas ej.

Ah ok. Understood.

Looking at more of those short videos done by the same person, I actually find the newer apartments more horrid than the older ones. It's really no wonder that NYC has such a high density of people; residents are literally living really close together, just separated by walls.

Originally Posted by JManc

When I was working out in the Bay Area a few years ago, I rented a 400/sf ADU and enjoyed it but I still had 3000/sf house here in Houston so had the opportunity to live in both worlds for a while. That apartment made me appreciate having less clutter and we started decluttering our house when I got back.

280/ sf is a bit cramped for me though. That's smaller than my bedroom.

It's always good to de-clutter. My partner and I were never really into knick-knacks, we have some artwork on our walls, nothing fancy, some of it folksy... but what we do have a large collection of is books. We both love to read, and frequent bookstores. We have a one-bedroom apartment, which I always thought was a decent size for us, not too big or too small (it's 685 square feet), I just wish we had more counter space in the kitchen. The apt. building was built in the 1940s, so the kitchen is kind of small, and is actually a separate room, all walled off, with a pocket door, built in the days when nobody entertained in the kitchen or cooked/prepared food in front of guests.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

What the hell?!?

You gotta be kidding, right? My partner showed me a bunch of these short videos and we were both laughing and appalled at the same time. I doubt the two of us would even fit in these tiny apartments. Where would we put our stuff? Our bed and nightstands? Our desk? Our dining room table and chairs? Our sofa and coffee table and end tables??

Originally Posted by sopas ej

• Video Link

The audio mischaracterized this apartment for dramatic effect. The kitchen is the entire space outside of the partial wall too. It appears to have additional cabinet space against the wall. You can also put in a kitchen or dining table, which is a rarity in NYC apartments.

Originally Posted by sopas ej

• Video Link

I'm not in love with the layout of this apartment with one major exception: the terrace space. Outdoor terrace space of that size is extremely sought after in NYC. It comes at the expensive of another bedroom for this apartment, but the 1 bedroom with the terrace space is probably not much cheaper than the two bedroom below it with no outdoor space.

Originally Posted by sopas ej

• Video Link

Sinks over the toilet water tank are common in parts of Europe and Asia. The water for your toilet tank comes from the same place as your bathroom sink. That said, this set up is pretty rare in NYC. I've only seen this once or twice in person.

[Busy Bee]

Spend some time in Italy - or southern europe for that matter - and these weird tiny bathrooms and stretched definitions for kitchens wont seem all that strange.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Spend some time in Italy - or southern europe for that matter - and these weird tiny bathrooms and stretched definitions for kitchens wont seem all that strange.

Oh trust me, I've seen these setups in Europe as well as in so-called "developing" countries, but I wouldn't expect to see this in the US.

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I'm not in love with the layout of this apartment with one major exception: the terrace space. Outdoor terrace space of that size is extremely sought after in NYC. It comes at the expensive of another bedroom for this apartment, but the 1 bedroom with the terrace space is probably not much cheaper than the two bedroom below it with no outdoor space.

I agree that a terrace adds to living space, but realistically in NYC, how often would you be out there? I imagine only a few seasons a year.

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Sinks over the toilet water tank are common in parts of Europe and Asia. The water for your toilet tank comes from the same place as your bathroom sink.

I know, but that's not the point; what if you needed to get into your toilet tank?

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

I agree that a terrace adds to living space, but realistically in NYC, how often would you be out there? I imagine only a few seasons a year.

Isn't a few seasons enough? lol. That's like asking why houses have yards, right?

New Yorkers don't typically have access to private outdoor space of any kind, so that will always go for a premium. My friends/neighbors host gatherings in their yard throughout the winter and they are well attended even during the depths of the season. But they have fire pits to keep people warm in the coldest weather, which you can't really do on a terrace. You can, however, probably have a few heat lamps. So the only time outside space like that would really be off limits is during an extreme cold snap (like well below 20F) or after a major snow/ice storm.

[Crawford]

Yeah, at least in Brownstone Brooklyn, there's a huge premium on outdoor space, whether a back patio and/or patch of grass, or the more common deck or balcony. Those tiny spaces get used, almost year-round.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Isn't a few seasons enough? lol. That's like asking why houses have yards, right?

Yards are different from a balcony or terrace, and no, I wouldn't imagine those to be used throughout the year in the northeast either.

Originally Posted by iheartthed

New Yorkers don't typically have access to private outdoor space of any kind, so that will always go for a premium. My friends/neighbors host gatherings in their yard throughout the winter and they are well attended even during the depths of the season. But they have fire pits to keep people warm in the coldest weather, which you can't really do on a terrace. You can, however, probably have a few heat lamps. So the only time outside space like that would really be off limits is during an extreme cold snap (like well below 20F) or after a major snow/ice storm.

Or hot and humid days?

Or when it's raining? I assume it rains far more in NYC than it does in SoCal.

Speaking of SoCal, it's funny because here, it seems like the apartments with balconies, I often DON'T see people using them, apart from storing their bikes on them or leaving a wet mop out to dry.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Spend some time in Italy - or southern europe for that matter - and these weird tiny bathrooms and stretched definitions for kitchens wont seem all that strange.

Even a hotel room (in a supposedly "nice" hotel) in Italy was an eye opener.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Or when it's raining? I assume it rains far more in NYC than it does in SoCal.

NYC gets a lot of rain, but it doesn't get a lot of PNW or Northern Europe-type rain, where it's misty all day and just feels wet. Like the rest of the Eastern Seaboard, it tends to be short, hard warm weather rains, often stormy.

A rainy day usually means like 20-30 minutes of rain, occasionally near-deluge. So when you have outdoor plans when it rains, you generally just wait it out. Where my dad is from in Germany, it can basically "rain" for days but the precipitation is less than one good hard rain, and you generally don't really need an umbrella, even.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Or hot and humid days?

Or when it's raining? I assume it rains far more in NYC than it does in SoCal.

Yes, people use their outdoor space on hot and humid days. It's rarely hot enough in NYC that you don't want to be outside at any point in the day. During summer's dog days people just save their outdoor activities until late evening.

The northeast also rarely loses entire days to rain. Our rain usually happens over the period of a few hours, and oftentimes it happens overnight, so rain is rarely a hinderance for enjoying outdoor space. And even on rainy days, you can use patio umbrellas or sun shades to shield the rain (also works on sunny days too).

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Speaking of SoCal, it's funny because here, it seems like the apartments with balconies, I often DON'T see people using them, apart from storing their bikes on them or leaving a wet mop out to dry.

So there's a difference between balconies and terraces. Balconies often go unused in NYC too because they're so small and usually located above busy streets. Plant space, outdoor storage, and a smoking area are the most common uses. On the other hand, terrace spaces are highly sought after because you have space to move around, host friends, etc.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

So there's a difference between balconies and terraces. Balconies often go unused in NYC too because they're so small and usually located above busy streets. Plant space, outdoor storage, and a smoking area are the most common uses. On the other hand, terrace spaces are highly sought after because you have space to move around, host friends, etc.

Oh yes, I know there's a difference between balconies and terraces. I was just bringing up how even in SoCal, many balconies seem to go unused.

Even though California does not have a statewide ban on smoking outside of multi-unit housing, many individual cities do, and landlords can impose smoking bans on tenants for indoor and outdoor common spaces, and even inside units; it has to be mentioned on the lease. Landlords can even designate whole properties as being 100% smoke-free. After repeated warnings, verbal or written, smoking can be cause for eviction. Smoking outside your apartment in South Pasadena is illegal.

[mhays]

Smoking right outside someone else's windows is a particularly douchey thing to do.

Balconies don't get used in Seattle either. I don't use mine other than to occasionally check the weather. Visitors like to check out the view.

In a colder city in particular, balconies are for the feeling that you CAN go outside, not for actually doing so. They also allow you to open a full door instead of a window in the summer. I do that vs. running AC most of the time.

The reason I don't use mine even in good weather is it sticks out into space where you're in the wind and sun and in view of everyone. Also I don't like heights that much. Give me a shaded alcove with walls on three sides and I'd use it quite a bit.

[Steely Dan]

Back when I lived in Marina City, I definitely used my balcony, most especially for grilling.

But it was a large balcony (175 SF) on the 33rd floor with a very nice westerward view down the main branch river canyon. It was big enough to be useful as an outdoor room when the weather allowed. I had a table that sat 6 along with 2 lounge chairs out there. It wasn't just a dumb little 20 SF "smoking ledge".

[mhays]

Grilling isn't allowed in mine due to local fire codes (I think), and also due to other people's windows right there. It's a concrete building.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by mhays

Smoking right outside someone else's windows is a particularly douchey thing to do.

Oh totally. My partner and I have been living in the same apartment since 1998. Within the first few years, other tenants would smoke in front of our open windows, and it would bother us, so we would let them know at least not to smoke in front of our open windows, and they obliged. When the windows were closed, that was ok, we couldn't smell the smoke inside. In the early 2010s, the city of South Pasadena passed an ordinance that banned smoking in all common areas in multi-unit housing, so that issue became moot. And then in 2018, South Pas banned smoking in all public outdoor spaces, including sidewalks, parks, etc.

From Google AI: "South Pasadena's ban on public smoking outdoors went into effect on June 15, 2018, following a City Council vote in May 2018. The updated ordinance prohibits smoking on all public sidewalks, walkways, parkways, curbs, and gutters, in addition to existing bans in city parks, multi-unit residences (both indoors and outdoor common areas), and at public transportation stops."