Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[SteelTown]

Hamilton’s TD Coliseum wrapping up ‘transformation’ as doors open next month

• Video Link

[J.OT13]

For those who haven't been following, here's how the Lansdwone 2.0 plan was value engineered to the cheapest viable product over the last 5 years.

Original proposal that was kind of cool, with the arena built within the hill, with a green roof and an edge walk. Trees preserved near the Aberdeen Pavilion. North side stands match South side. What we can't see is the 2k music venue and RecRoom in the podium.


https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...-knit-arena-into-berm-add-1200-new-homes

The much loved hill is now completely gone. Arena is fully exposed. No edge walk. Green PVC roof. Music venue and Rec Room are gone, and the podium has the same retail space as today. Trees by the Aberdeen Pavilion are gone. What we can't see is a parkng garage added between the podium of the new towers and north side bleachers.


https://www.ctvnews.ca/ottawa/article/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-lansdowne-20/

[elly63]

As I'm not a local the only thing I care about is the stadium.

I don't mind the change from the original design for a few reasons. It removes seats from the upper deck far ends which are most often the seats that go empty and you know that by often seeing tarps covering them in other stadiums.

There is a concentration of seats in the middle where the most value can be obtained from them.

Also it has a different quirky kind of look that you might see in a US college type stadium. IMO it does look kinda goofy in the rendering above but looks better from the side view. JMO

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by elly63

As I'm not a local the only thing I care about is the stadium.

I don't mind the change from the original design for a few reasons. It removes seats from the upper deck far ends which are most often the seats that go empty and you know that by often seeing tarps covering them in other stadiums.

There is a concentration of seats in the middle where the most value can be obtained from them.

Also it has a different quirky kind of look that you might see in a US college type stadium. IMO it does look kinda goofy in the rendering above but looks better from the side view. JMO

I wonder if this will change due to the new CFL field configuration? Maybe they shift it slightly off center, expand the social / patio area in the endzone by the scoreboard and add some seats in the other end zone between the field and the arena

[elly63]

Notice the capacities for both the stadium and arena have increased from the original proposals.

The present North end stand seats approximately 14k which was to be decreased to 11-11.2k and is now 12.4k

The Civic Centre seats 9.8k currently (subject to interpretation) and the new events centre originally slated for 5.5k seats is now 6.6k seats (hockey configuration)

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by elly63

As I'm not a local the only thing I care about is the stadium.

I don't mind the change from the original design for a few reasons. It removes seats from the upper deck far ends which are most often the seats that go empty and you know that by often seeing tarps covering them in other stadiums.

There is a concentration of seats in the middle where the most value can be obtained from them.

Also it has a different quirky kind of look that you might see in a US college type stadium. IMO it does look kinda goofy in the rendering above but looks better from the side view. JMO

I don't mind the new configuration of the bleachers too much compared to the initial renderings, though I was really hoping we'd at least get a more cohesive design, but no. Sticking with the frankenstadium look. Other angles seem much cheaper than previous.

My main issue is the arena that went from integrated into the berm to a much cheaper, basic design, with the berm almost fully removed. A lot of existing trees were also removed in favour of grass and pavement.

Originally Posted by cjones2451

I wonder if this will change due to the new CFL field configuration? Maybe they shift it slightly off center, expand the social / patio area in the endzone by the scoreboard and add some seats in the other end zone between the field and the arena

The winning bid has been selected, and any changes would cost additional funds, so I doubt the City would go for that, even if it could improve fan experience.

Originally Posted by elly63

Notice the capacities for both the stadium and arena have increased from the original proposals.

The present North end stand seats approximately 14k which was to be decreased to 11-11.2k and is now 12.4k

The Civic Centre seats 9.8k currently (subject to interpretation) and the new events centre originally slated for 5.5k seats is now 6.6k seats (hockey configuration)

I can see how extra seats were added to the bleachers, but there's no way the added 1.1k seats to the arena without expanding its footprint. They must have just loaded the standing room and luxury suites with as many people as legally possible, but in no way viable in real life.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I can see how extra seats were added to the bleachers, but there's no way the added 1.1k seats to the arena without expanding its footprint. They must have just loaded the standing room and luxury suites with as many people as legally possible, but in no way viable in real life.

That render above of the new North end stand has been out since at least December 2024. I think the new capacity numbers have been a very recent declaration. I think a reporter brought up the discrepancy at a news conference (I could be wrong).

[elly63]

Interesting article from two years ago comparing and contrasting SMU and TWG as potential sites for a new Halifax stadium.

Examining both potential CFL ‘temporary-permanent’ stadium options in Halifax
John Hodge 3downnation.com July 28, 2023

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The winning bid has been selected, and any changes would cost additional funds, so I doubt the City would go for that, even if it could improve fan experience.

They are asking trades for any savings ideas, so I don't think there will be any changes unless it's something that saves money.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by elly63

Interesting article from two years ago comparing and contrasting SMU and TWG as potential sites for a new Halifax stadium.

Examining both potential CFL ‘temporary-permanent’ stadium options in Halifax
John Hodge 3downnation.com July 28, 2023

Really hoping to see a CFL team in Halifax one day. Crossing that 10 team line would go a long way in making the league seem a bit more serious.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Really hoping to see a CFL team in Halifax one day. Crossing that 10 team line would go a long way in making the league seem a bit more serious.

Really, a 67 year old league with a 116 year old championship trophy needs another team to be serious. How about the original six NHL?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by elly63

Really, a 67 year old league with a 116 year old championship trophy needs another team to be serious. How about the original six NHL?

Serious might not be the right word.

The Original Six was a very different era. NHL has doubled in 1967, so I don't think we can compare.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Really hoping to see a CFL team in Halifax one day. Crossing that 10 team line would go a long way in making the league seem a bit more serious.

Would love to see it too but there’s simply not enough interest and too many obstacles. The reception of the city to the Wanderers’ proposal versus the Schooners’ proposal from a few years ago is about as stark as you can get.

If the league is serious about 10 teams, they need to get serious about Quebec City. It has its own obstacles for sure, but it still seems simpler than Halifax.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

Would love to see it too but there’s simply not enough interest and too many obstacles. The reception of the city to the Wanderers’ proposal versus the Schooners’ proposal from a few years ago is about as stark as you can get.

You can't gauge interest until you have a serious proposal and owner. People from away also seem to be under the impression it is a Halifax team, it's a regional team hence the name Atlantic Schooners. The problem is Halifax has to put up the money to attract the people.

The Riders draw 50 percent of their fan base from outside Regina, something roughly similar would occur in NS/NB.

The only obstacle is a serious, preferably local owner coming forward. Not saying it will happen because I don't think it will but if an Irving or Sobey came forward you would see this thing move and move fast. There are other billionaires besides them but locally it's not a very big club.

I had posted quite a few polls from the time at another website that went belly up that were positive. Ownership, stadium and fan base are the three pillars. The last two are chicken and egg.

The last ownership group IMO were semi serious and again IMO one owner short of the needed funds. I'm glad it didn't go through and end up like the Renegades.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

If the league is serious about 10 teams, they need to get serious about Quebec City. It has its own obstacles for sure, but it still seems simpler than Halifax.

Why is it simpler? The stadium can't be used, and there's no potential owner.

Without a new stadium, don't think about the CFL, says Tanguay
Olivier Bossé, Le Soleil June 16, 2023

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Really hoping to see a CFL team in Halifax one day. Crossing that 10 team line would go a long way in making the league seem a bit more serious.

Definitely agree, having only 9 teams in one of the oldest sporting leagues on the continent does seem a bit bush league. If Aussie football can have 18 teams in a smaller country, we should be able to at least hit double digits. The AFL doesn't have to compete with the NFL, so weight that a bit, but the point stands.

There should be a second BC team, an Atlantic team, and another team or 2 in the GTA.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Definitely agree, having only 9 teams in one of the oldest sporting leagues on the continent does seem a bit bush league. If Aussie football can have 18 teams in a smaller country, we should be able to at least hit double digits. The AFL doesn't have to compete with the NFL, so weight that a bit, but the point stands.

There should be a second BC team, an Atlantic team, and another team or 2 in the GTA.

Plus a league where 2/3 of the teams qualify for the playoffs does seem somewhat bush league. It's bad enough 50% of the teams in the NHL make the playoffs.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

The reception of the city to the Wanderers’ proposal versus the Schooners’ proposal from a few years ago is about as stark as you can get.

I don't really understand this point.

The Wanderers as far as I know set up a temporary stadium with their own funds, began playing, and became popular as people attended the games.

The CFL team promoters were I believe asking for hundreds of millions upfront for a large stadium to be built in a suburban location. The exact plans were somewhat nebulous, and no actual team was formed.

When they did host actual CFL games in NS they sold out very quickly and were well attended. I believe that a more Wanderers-like plan for a larger bare bones multi-use stadium on public land in the city centre would have been successful and is still viable.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

There should be a second BC team, an Atlantic team, and another team or 2 in the GTA.

Why isn't there a second NHL team in the GTA?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

Plus a league where 2/3 of the teams qualify for the playoffs does seem somewhat bush league. It's bad enough 50% of the teams in the NHL make the playoffs.

And 20 (paired to 16) of 30 NBA teams. And that matters why? I guess the NBA is bush league.