Dead Malls of Canada

[ssiguy]

The thing that really killed the mall in Canada was the demise of the department store.

Malls always had 2 main anchor tenants.........the big supermarket and the big department store. They were ALWAYS on opposite sides of the the mall and the smaller clothing/junk stores were always in the middle. The smaller stores benefitted by the traffic flow between the 2. The classic big department stores were Simpsons, Sears, Woolco, Eatons, the Bay, and Zellers.

Now all those stores are gone and there is no foot traffic connecting the two and hence all the smaller stores that relied on that connecting pedestrian traffic have closed. This is why so many once malls are now just grocery stores with the other retail space being vacant or used more for office space.

[MolsonExport]

Department Stores were killed by so-called Category Killers (Giant Big Box stores with deep assortments of narrower lines of products, built out where the land was cheaper). They undercut Department Stores on the bases of deep line assortment (with far fewer lines) and prices. Department stores cut back on their breadth assortment, but could still not compete on prices, given their higher overhead costs (partly due to renting space in malls). Customer traffic fell off, and thus too the cross-mall traffic.

The business model for most malls has been fundamentally broken, going back to the late 80s when Big Box Category Killers really got going. Aided by permissive zoning.

The malls that survived and thrived were those that went upscale, as they offered merchandise that was usually not found at the Big Box stores. But even these are under threat from places like Toronto Premium Outlets (that one in Milton is possibly the worst place in the universe...tens of thousands of people queuing up for handbags, nightmarish parking, soul-sucking architecture,...).

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The thing that really killed the mall in Canada was the demise of the department store.

Malls always had 2 main anchor tenants.........the big supermarket and the big department store. They were ALWAYS on opposite sides of the the mall and the smaller clothing/junk stores were always in the middle. They smaller stores benefitted by the traffic flow between the 2. The classic big department stores were Simpsons, Sears, Woolco, Eatons, the Bay, and Zellers.

Don't forget Kmart. They were big in Ontario at least.

My hometown mall had Kmart, Woolco, a Miracle Mart grocery store and movie theatre when it opened (only the expanded 7-screen Cineplex Odeon still exists). It effectively killed the downtown in quick order by the time I was born.

There's a trend I see in Ontario shopping centres. Filling up some vacant mall space with a library branch. There's two in Niagara like that.

[MolsonExport]

Europe, and Asia especially, still have their High Streets downtown. Going to Japan is like time travelling to the 1960s. Fantastic department stores, going up 10+ stories, jammed with shoppers, and helpful employees that are absolutely delighted that you are a customer.

Hudson's Bay, circa 2023. Nary an employee in sight. Threadbare shelves (and carpeting). Decor from the 1980s. Stuck on High-Low pricing (ridiculous high prices most of the time, punctuated by the odd sale price that wipes out margins). A handful of (usually elderly) customers shuffling about.

[niwell]

I've been to the Simons at Yorkdale and the just opened Eaton Centre store and they are absolutely great additions to help fill that role. Been to the central Montreal store before and was very excited to see more expansion into Ontario and finally the coveted Eaton Centre location (takes up the previous Nordstrom space). Great selection, decent prices and the workers I dealt with at least were helpful and seemed knowledgeable - granted I was getting a blazer and dress shoes which is an area where that's always been more of the case.

Of course both those malls are ones that were doing just fine irrespective of anchor tenants. But it fills a gap very nicely.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Europe, and Asia especially, still have their High Streets downtown. Going to Japan is like time travelling to the 1960s. Fantastic department stores, going up 10+ stories, jammed with shoppers, and helpful employees that are absolutely delighted that you are a customer.

Hudson's Bay, circa 2023. Nary an employee in sight. Threadbare shelves (and carpeting). Decor from the 1980s. Stuck on High-Low pricing (ridiculous high prices most of the time, punctuated by the odd sale price that wipes out margins). A handful of (usually elderly) customers shuffling about.

Molson, which has better department stores: Seoul or Tokyo?
The internet builds up Lotte as this amazing place but I'd like to know from someone that's not a YouTube influencer

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by niwell

I've been to the Simons at Yorkdale and the just opened Eaton Centre store and they are absolutely great additions to help fill that role. Been to the central Montreal store before and was very excited to see more expansion into Ontario and finally the coveted Eaton Centre location (takes up the previous Nordstrom space).

I've been hoping for them to open up a store in Hamilton (Limeridge Mall) since it's a fat chance they open at The Pen(insula) Centre in St. Catharines for the Niagara Region. Hamilton has about 650,000 people in the city, and Niagara region is around 550,000.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Molson, which has better department stores: Seoul or Tokyo?
The internet builds up Lotte as this amazing place but I'd like to know from someone that's not a YouTube influencer

Well, I was last in Japan in 2019 and last in Korea in 2006, so it wouldn't really be a fair comparison. Lotte was very impressive, but Japan's Department Stores blew me away. Korea has come a long way from 2006, mind you, whereas Japan has stagnated.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Well, I was last in Japan in 2019 and last in Korea in 2006, so it wouldn't really be a fair comparison. Lotte was very impressive, but Japan's Department Stores blew me away. Korea has come a long way from 2006, mind you, whereas Japan has stagnated.

Fair enough.

Korea has come so far. My Dad went from years of owning Toyotas to Kia. A Sony TV to Samsung and LG TVs, and LG washer and dryer. They are finally being seen in North America or the globe, how everyone became impressed by Japan in the 1980s-1990s.

I think of how shit my friend's Mom's Hyundai Pony was in the late 1980s/early 1990s compared to the current crop of Hyundai products. They've advanced to become competitive if not a world leader in automotive and electronics sectors, among many other industries.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

The business model for most malls has been fundamentally broken, going back to the late 80s when Big Box Category Killers really got going. Aided by permissive zoning.

The malls that survived and thrived were those that went upscale, as they offered merchandise that was usually not found at the Big Box stores. But even these are under threat from places like Toronto Premium Outlets (that one in Milton is possibly the worst place in the universe...tens of thousands of people queuing up for handbags, nightmarish parking, soul-sucking architecture,...).

I agree that most of the malls that survived tend to be upscale but there are a few noteworthy exceptions. In London that exception would be CherryHill Mall {called Westown Plaza Mall when I was a kid} because it never went into these hyper-expansions in the 80s like Westmount.

It has a very niche clientele of being right in the middle of a huge apartment area and right next to Western. There are a lot of seniors and students living in the huge apts and many don't have cars. It had a captive audience and just kept it that way.

[MolsonExport]

yes, Cherryhill mall (and the one nearer to my home, Sherwood Forest Mall) is an example of a micromall that has thrived. It doesn't have much competition for the type of stores it hosts (within a few kilometers, which is a lot for the seniors and students that lack automobiles), it is on a very busy street close to the university, and most of all, it has tens of thousands of people living right behind in what is London's largest apartment complexes...set to almost double in size in the next 5-8 years, with expansion to the West along Oxford, up until Proudfoot lane.

Masonville, the biggest, most upscale London-area mall is still doing well, having attracted an Apple Store along with other upper-market offerings. White Oaks hangs on, but while mostly fully leased, lacks the that upscale mixture. It hasn't fallen yet, but you can see that its glory days are well behind it, with the profusion of cheaper retailing options like Dolllarama, Bentley's, cellphone bling shops, and nail salons. Westmount mall, once perhaps the largest of London's malls, is in dire shape. It is virtually bereft of retail, other than the stores fronting Wonderland Road. A third of the mall was demolished, orphaning the former grocery store and adjacent passage. What remains of the upstairs has been entirely converted to offices. It still gets those mall walkers, though. But what a sad decline from 2005, when I moved to London (renting an apt right across the street, when the mall was nearly completely leased...within one year, perhaps a third of the shops were vacated, on account of the Big Box Barf Dumbcentre built at Southdale and Wonderland. Galleria downtown (aka Citi Plaza) is, save for a Timmies and a Dollarama, utterly bereft of shops. Once upon a time, it hosted a Harry Rosen outlet and Polo Ralph Lauren. Now it is nearly completely empty, of both shops and services. Argyle mall was knocked down and replaced with Big Box Barf. As was Oakridge Mall. Likewise for Superstore Mall south of the 401. And likewise for the world famous Oxbury mall. London Mall has been redeveloped (half of it became a T&T), and lost its inner mall.

[Blitz]

Devonshire Mall is an example of a non-upscale mall that's thriving. Back in the day, cross-border shopping was common and that might be one reason why Windsor never became saturated with retail (like London did). Now that Metro Windsor is growing fast and cross-border shopping isn't common, the mall seems to be a perfect fit for the population / market size of the region.

[MolsonExport]

The price gap between American and Canadian retailers has narrowed substantially over the past decade.

[FactaNV]

In optimistic news for a dead downtown Canadian mall, the Portage Place Mall (Winnipeg) demolition work is well underway and renewal should be beginning soon. Plan is to build two towers on either block of the mall, along with services, a grocery, some retail and other amentities.

https://winnipeg.citynews.ca/2025/10/17/...-as-portage-place-gets-massive-makeover/

[J.OT13]

Ottawa's oldest indoor mall closed at the end of October. Opened in 1955, it will be fully demolished except for the Shoppers Drug Mart and replaced with a singular grocery store. Long term plans include residential towers (one was built in the corner of the parking lot, replacing a stand alone restaurant about 5 years ago), but the owner RioCan is very slow and these buildouts.

https://obj.ca/goodbye-westgate-shopping-centre-malls-historic-past/

• Video Link

[MolsonExport]

^the passages look very narrow.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Department Stores were killed by so-called Category Killers (Giant Big Box stores with deep assortments of narrower lines of products, built out where the land was cheaper). They undercut Department Stores on the bases of deep line assortment (with far fewer lines) and prices. Department stores cut back on their breadth assortment, but could still not compete on prices, given their higher overhead costs (partly due to renting space in malls). Customer traffic fell off, and thus too the cross-mall traffic.

The business model for most malls has been fundamentally broken, going back to the late 80s when Big Box Category Killers really got going. Aided by permissive zoning.

The malls that survived and thrived were those that went upscale, as they offered merchandise that was usually not found at the Big Box stores. But even these are under threat from places like Toronto Premium Outlets (that one in Milton is possibly the worst place in the universe...tens of thousands of people queuing up for handbags, nightmarish parking, soul-sucking architecture,...).

Milton is awful but I actually really enjoy the one in Niagara - we usually make a point of stopping once a year or so there. Milton's problem is that it's closer to the GTA (so much, much busier), and it was built on too small a parcel of land so everyone has to cram in.

Niagara operates on about 62 acres with 5 full-access driveways to feed cars in and out, and probably 30-40% less traffic on that area.. Milton is 44 acres with only two full access driveways, and higher car volumes. No wonder it's a disaster.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

^the passages look very narrow.

I does. Note that it's a 165k square foot "L" mall, so one of the smallest. It never had (I assume) the crowds of St. Laurent, Bayshore or Rideau, so that was probably sufficient.

[TorontoDrew]

Some Dead Malls are actually busy places like Sunnycrest Mall in Gibsons, B.C.

Like many typical small town malls, it has a London Drugs, Marks Work Warehouse, a grocery store, several empty units, and it's not a small town BC mall without a Bonsai Tree store. Malls in small towns that's I've been in in B.C and Ontario also act like community centres. A gathering place for seniors.


I can't find any decent images of Sunnycrest Mall
29nov2009duaneburnett (59) by Duane Burnett, on Flickr

Off topic, but I saw it while searching for a mall pick. If you ever find yourself in Gibsons and like Taco's this place is solid.
Gibsons Landing - Gibsons, BC by Peterson Ph♡tography, on Flickr

[MolsonExport]

I like Gibsons. I had breakfast at Molly's Reach a few times. The last time being 2003. I ordered "The Relic".