⚜️ The French Canada Thread | Discussion sur le Canada français ⚜️

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The first (in general, not this converted office space or whatever) should be understood as a reaction to/against the second. The Anglicans and Lutherans seem to occupy a middle ground.
Matthew 18:20.

That's definitely some of it. "The Reformation" was a pretty big deal. You're talking thousands of years of backlash. What also contributes are certain principles that are taken to heart like:

Acts 17:24 (God does not live in man-made temples)
Matthew 6:5 (Worship shouldn't be "showy")
Romans 1:21–23 (Don't focus worship on/with idols)
John 13:35 (Love is the identifier, not bling).

All of those add up to architectural decisions that might seem austere, but the goal in the most "extreme" examples is to not to draw unreasonable attention to traditional trappings or try to create a "mystical" experience with icons and awe-inspiring ceilings.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Montreal Quaker Meeting | Assemblée Quaker de Montréal

The Quakers in Montreal certainly look to have a very casual Church.

I did not expect this thread to go into the topic of churches in French Canada, but it is an interesting discussion. I wonder, what is the largest non Christian house of worship in Quebec? I'd assume it would be a Synagogue? I was surprised to see the biggest mosque in French Canada is in Quebec City and not Montreal. I expect that won't last for long.

I wonder if the many Moroccans of Montreal are ever reminded of home when they see the Montreal Clock Tower?


Montreal's Clock Tower Beach

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

...

The Quakers in Montreal certainly look to have a very casual Church.

I did not expect this thread to go into the topic of churches in French Canada, but it is an interesting discussion. I wonder, what is the largest non Christian house of worship in Quebec? I'd assume it would be a Synagogue? I was surprised to see the biggest mosque in French Canada is in Quebec City and not Montreal. I expect that won't last for long.

...

Given the city's history, I would have thought that it would be an Anglican or Presbyterian/United church.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Given the city's history, I would have thought that it would be an Anglican or Presbyterian/United church.

Non-Christian, EnvisionSaintJohn wondered. Non-Catholic I imagine you're correct. But I still think there would be a case for a synagogue. And there is the size of the building but also that of the congregation... the two may not necessarily line up.


Re: the use of "Basilica" and "Cathedral", I thought those were basically designations of types of Catholic churches? Cathedral being the seat of a Bishop within a diocese, while a Basilica is an important church regardless of who presides there?

Quebec has some stunning church architecture. Even the smaller towns have beautiful ones.

It's great that some of the Saint Boniface Cathedral was saved. Still a big loss, even for non-religious people like me.

In Ontario we're losing old churches as their congregations dwindle. Some have been saved for new purposes, some saved because congregations were merged, but in some cases services are now held in the condo towers that replaced the church property (either because the congregations could not afford the upkeep of their old church buildings or the land was just too valuable to avoid being sold... probably a combination of both in many instances)

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Non-Christian, EnvisionSaintJohn wondered. Non-Catholic I imagine you're correct. But I still think there would be a case for a synagogue. And there is the size of the building but also that of the congregation... the two may not necessarily line up.


Re: the use of "Basilica" and "Cathedral", I thought those were basically designations of types of Catholic churches? Cathedral being the seat of a Bishop within a diocese, while a Basilica is an important church regardless of who presides there?

Quebec has some stunning church architecture. Even the smaller towns have beautiful ones.

It's great that some of the Saint Boniface Cathedral was saved. Still a big loss, even for non-religious people like me.

In Ontario we're losing old churches as their congregations dwindle. Some have been saved for new purposes, some saved because congregations were merged, but in some cases services are now held in the condo towers that replaced the church property (either because the congregations could not afford the upkeep of their old church buildings or the land was just too valuable to avoid being sold... probably a combination of both in many instances)

Yes... I was pondering non-Christian, not non-Catholic, but I do wonder if the Congregation Shaar Hashomayim Synagogue in Westmount, along with all of its associated buildings, is larger than the largest non-Catholic Church in the province of Quebec, or if it's the larger than the Great Mosque of Quebec, (the largest Mosque in French Canada).

Google seemed especially unhelpful in looking up the sizes of "religious buildings" and "houses of worship", so I turned to Chat GPT, something I really try to avoid using, but it seemed to do a better job at answering the question than Google.

It seemed to better understand the question, "What are the largest non Christian religious buildings or houses of worship in Canada?" compared to: "What are the largest non Christian religious buildings or houses of worship in the province of Quebec?"





I think it could be close between St. James United Church in Montreal, which is described as the largest Protestant Church in Montreal and Congregation Shaar Hashomayim, for largest non-Catholic house of worship/ collection of religious building(s) in Montreal. The church by itself versus the temple might be a bigger house of worship specifically, but perhaps the collection of buildings at Congregation Shaar Hashomayim could cover a larger area. I guess the real metric for "size" should be the volumes of the building(s). 📐

St. James United Church in Montreal:





Maximum capacity: 1200

Congregation Shaar Hashomayim Synagogue in Montreal:





Maximum capacity: 1800

Interestingly enough, Leonard Cohen's grandfather, Lyon Cohen was the President of Congregation Shaar Hashomayim and laid the temple's cornerstone in 1921. Here's an interesting digital museum exhibit on the temple, including some pics of the interior.

Based on my findings, i think Congregation Shaar Hashomayim in Montreal may be the largest non Christian house of worship, and/or the largest collection of non-Christian religious affiliated buildings in the province of Quebec... but I still can't say for certain.

[Loco101]

the largest non Christian house of worship in Quebec?

I'm assuming that means the most people who regularly attend it?

It definitely was that synagogue, Congregation Shaar Hashomayim, in Westmount but who knows if it still is. My guess is that the Jewish population isn't growing in Quebec and that not as many people attend like in the past.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Loco101

the largest non Christian house of worship in Quebec?

I'm assuming that means the most people who regularly attend it?

It definitely was that synagogue, Congregation Shaar Hashomayim, in Westmount but who knows if it still is. My guess is that the Jewish population isn't growing in Quebec and that not as many people attend like in the past.

No, largest building/capacity.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

No, largest building/capacity.

Oh okay.

Either way it would be interesting to know for both capacity and regular attendance.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Re: the use of "Basilica" and "Cathedral", I thought those were basically designations of types of Catholic churches? Cathedral being the seat of a Bishop within a diocese, while a Basilica is an important church regardless of who presides there?

I came across a this old picture of Moncton's Our Lady of the Assumption Cathedral the other day, when looking at New Brunswick's national historic sites on Wikipedia, and it made me think of your post, and how maybe some Cathedrals can be more impressive than some basilicas.

Upon first glance, it looks a like an Art Deco skyscraper:



and in other pictures it looks even more like that:



I couldn't find any higher resolution from some of these angles, like this one above from the Parks Canada website, but it really almost looks like a mini Empire State Building or something from this perspective, which I think is really cool, and pretty rare for a church.


I was surprised to see it was one of only two national historic sites in Moncton, and that it took so long for it to be recognized as one at that. The Cathedral has been described by Parks Canada as "a symbol to the achievements and resilience of the Acadians".




I really need to check this one out next time I'm in Moncton, as I've been there a handful of times and don't really remember seeing it. I'm not a church goer myself, but sometimes it is nice to pop inside them and have a look, especially impressive buildings like cathedrals. This cathedral just seems especially interesting on the outside to me, but I guess I am a huge sucker for Art Deco.

[ScreamingViking]

It's beautiful.

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Upon first glance, it looks a like an Art Deco skyscraper:



and in other pictures it looks even more like that:

[SignalHillHiker]

Met a teacher from one of the French schools on my lunch break today and asked her if it was still mainly students from St. Pierre and Miquelon. She said not at all - though the principal and most staff are from there. There are actually more students from Quebecois families than French ones, but there are more from Cameroon alone than both combined. Vast majority of student body is international. Interesting to learn.

[Kilgore Trout]

Originally Posted by Loco101

My guess is that the Jewish population isn't growing in Quebec and that not as many people attend like in the past.

The Jewish population is growing very slightly (0.6% increase from 2011 to 2021). The decline in the English-speaking Ashkenazi population is offset by Jewish immigration from France and Morocco — about 62% of all Sephardic Jews in Canada live in Montreal — and especially the growth of the ultra-Orthodox communities that have a very high birth rate. They are mostly concentrated on the island of Montreal but there is a Hassidic village on the north shore, Kiryas Tosh, whose population is growing by a little under 2% per year.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Met a teacher from one of the French schools on my lunch break today and asked her if it was still mainly students from St. Pierre and Miquelon. She said not at all - though the principal and most staff are from there. There are actually more students from Quebecois families than French ones, but there are more from Cameroon alone than both combined. Vast majority of student body is international. Interesting to learn.

A lot of people have moved from the Cameroon to places in Canada that have francophone institutions. We've had an influx of people from there in Timmins attending Collège Boréal as well as for certain professions. I think French is more predominant in Cameroon although French and English are official languages. We've also had a number of immigrants from the Dem Rep of Congo who speak French and some other African countries.

There are probably also some Franco-Ontarian students attending that French language school in St. John's. Probably where one parent is a Newfoundlander and the other Franco-Ontarian.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Figured this was as good as the stadium thread to ask this, but does anyone know if the Laval Coliseum is still the host of a junior hockey? I see Laval has a team in the QJHL called the Laval Prime, but I couldn't figure out if they play out of the Colisee de Laval or not. I think it would be worth checking out the next time I'm in Montreal during hockey season, especially if it's at this miraculous barn. Did anyone on the forum get the chance to see any of the legendary Laval QMHL teams play at the Coliseum?




I really think it's too bad Laval lost their Q team, because of all that history, but I assume the state of the Colisee played a part in the franchises departure? Still, this place is an important part of hockey and Quebec history, and is the type of cultural location that deserves to be preserved.



Mario Lemieux with the Laval Voisins during the 1983-84 QMJHL season



Mario Lemieux set some of the most unbreakable single season records in hockey history in this arena, and while it looks unbelievably dated on the outside, it has a unique charm that makes me really want to visit it the next time I'm in Montreal.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Did anyone on the forum get the chance to see any of the legendary Laval QMHL teams play at the Coliseum?

I saw the Titans play there against Trois-Rivières in 1990 (not legendary, but still...). It was fun but the arena looked a little depressing (cant imagine now).

BTW, one of the former owners of the Titans Jean-Claude Morissette died this week.

https://www.rds.ca/hockey/lhjmq/arti...eint-a-79-ans/

[mousquet]

I guess it's always interesting for people to hear of their place described by foreigners, so here's Montréal as seen by a French immigrant when you have half an hour to waste.

• Video Link

The 30-yo woman's been over there for 6 years and earned her Canadian passport, so she's no longer an actual stranger, though she still has her French accent.

200k French-born residents in Montréal alone, eh. Not literally an invasion, still might help save the language over there in the end.
However, they say that it would actually be easier for a French national to move to Ontario these days, due to restriction on immigration in Québec.
That sounds odd when Quebecers always complain about their French identity being under the threat of the English language. More French-speaking people obviously mean greater chances for their language to last in their province, but they think they've had enough French immigrants. The woman says some of her friends had to leave the province against their will. No more room for newcomers, unless you're in a trade that their local job market is really after.
This current regulation on immigration from France would be rather recent and may change again in the coming years. It's up to them, huh.

The woman's leaving the small apartment she's had in an old building for a modern condo that won't be any roomier, but with better amenities.
Her monthly rent will increase from CA$ 1059 to 1620, which is still quite reasonable compared to Vancouver (or Paris in that matter), especially when water and internet bills are included.

It doesn't look bad at all. They're boasting quality of life over there. There's more room and greenery per inhabitant than what we've been used to in denser Paris.
And locals would be easier than the annoying "maudits Français".
That's about it.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

I saw the Titans play there against Trois-Rivières in 1990 (not legendary, but still...). It was fun but the arena looked a little depressing (cant imagine now).

BTW, one of the former owners of the Titans Jean-Claude Morissette died this week.

https://www.rds.ca/hockey/lhjmq/arti...eint-a-79-ans/

I’m sure the atmosphere of that arena was off the hook some nights. Quebec truly has a unique hockey culture of its own.

I guess the arena has since been renovated. I’m glad this barn was not torn down. From what I’ve read, however, there’s no sort of commemoration for Lemieux at the museum. I can only hope that’s outdated info and they now have something to commemorate Lemieux’s record setting season with the Laval Voisins. The greatest season in CHL history.

[MolsonExport]

The ancient-looking (and sort of cool in a grittastic way) Laval hockey arena juxtaposed with the banal, ultra-modern, cubist Laval city logo on the uniforms. Only in Quebec.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

• Video Link

This was quite a great analysis on Carney’s monumental speech by the great Chantal Hébert.


Highly suggest watching with YouTube’s translated subtitles if your French isn’t so magnifique.

My favourite line translated into English: “Mark Carney peed on Donald Trump’s carpet.”

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by mousquet

I guess it's always interesting for people to hear of their place described by foreigners, so here's Montréal as seen by a French immigrant when you have half an hour to waste.

• Video Link

The 30-yo woman's been over there for 6 years and earned her Canadian passport, so she's no longer an actual stranger, though she still has her French accent.

200k French-born residents in Montréal alone, eh. Not literally an invasion, still might help save the language over there in the end.
However, they say that it would actually be easier for a French national to move to Ontario these days, due to restriction on immigration in Québec.
That sounds odd when Quebecers always complain about their French identity being under the threat of the English language. More French-speaking people obviously mean greater chances for their language to last in their province, but they think they've had enough French immigrants. The woman says some of her friends had to leave the province against their will. No more room for newcomers, unless you're in a trade that their local job market is really after.
This current regulation on immigration from France would be rather recent and may change again in the coming years. It's up to them, huh.

The woman's leaving the small apartment she's had in an old building for a modern condo that won't be any roomier, but with better amenities.
Her monthly rent will increase from CA$ 1059 to 1620, which is still quite reasonable compared to Vancouver (or Paris in that matter), especially when water and internet bills are included.

It doesn't look bad at all. They're boasting quality of life over there. There's more room and greenery per inhabitant than what we've been used to in denser Paris.
And locals would be easier than the annoying "maudits Français".
That's about it.

Didn’t watch it all, but did watch a bit. Had no idea there were 200k French born residents in Montreal. If Quebec doesn’t want to make it easier for French citizens to immigrate, then I hope Nouveau-Brunswick could. Unfortunately, NB doesn’t have much control over its immigration policy like Quebec.

Though, I guess most French citizens would be less interested in living in Moncton or Saint-Jean than Montreal and Quebec 😅

Still, some would maybe not mind living in a smaller city, where they’ll have more opportunities to learn English, and more job opportunities if they are bilingual/ becoming bilingual. I guess Ottawa would be quite a good option too.