Soccer in Canada | Canada Hosting the 2026 World Cup

[elly63]

Originally Posted by jonny24

Yes. It's basically never ending. The way you type this (large volume) of opinion, I'd swear you were one of them.

Elly nailed it in mentioning the same same sort of "it's the world game, we must do everything like elsewhere" is usually combined with a need to put down Canadian football or gridiron football in general, and really peaked around the time the Argos moved to BMO.

IMO: We don't need to copy what anyone else does, we need to do what works here. And looking at every other successful league, CFL/NHL/NFL/MLB, that means fixed franchises. I include the American leagues because, more than almost any other cultural or social institution, North America (well, Canada/USA) really is one sporting market.

I get the desire - it really is, for lack of a better word, romantic for every town to have their team and they all find their level and move up and down. But we don't have the history, culture, or population density for it to work.

The best thing for Canadian soccer is to actually have a professional league, and the only way that's managed to happen is the same way every other professional league on this continent has managed to happen - franchises. IF the CPL ever got to say, 20 teams, once could imagine splitting into 2 leagues of 10, but that would be entirely dependent on there being so much money that relegation didn't hurt the owners. I'm not saying that could never happen, but it's so far from the reality of today that it's hard to say it ever will.

I get that internet forums are the place for expounding on very passionate, niche views, but yours in particular is one of the biggest turnoffs to non-soccer fans from ever becoming so. I don't mind watching individual games of soccer (when they're actually playing and not conning/arguing with the ref), but a significant subset of fans are so precious about the whole thing that it's quite offputting.

Fantastic post, wish I could have communicated that as well as you did.

I can't stand when people can't be bothered to edit a post down to its relevant points but everything you said was such a great point so I'm only going to remove a few sentences.

You picked the perfect word to describe the zeal for his points. A long time ago I remember a politician speaking about how easy it is to get younger people hooked on things like separatism because it's a romantic notion to try and start your own country. Romantic yes, easy, no. Danielle Smith commented on that not long ago when she tempered the wannabe separatists with the reality of how difficult (if not impossible) it would be to accomplish.

I suspect the poster sees this as a romantic venture to "right" Canada's ship from its wavering course but not realizing how the folks he romanticizes were the primary causes of the rough waters.

The soccer zealots have a particular zeal to convert others to the only game that seems to exist in their mind by trying to demean and degrade other sports which is particularly naive in Canada when we are so invested in so many other sports and winter sports to boot. Those are issues that aren't faced in South America and Africa where soccer can easily take the forefront.

[trueviking]

This is a funny comment “ Literally every country that has won the World Cup of Football have national professional leagues at home with systems of promotion and relegation”.

There is no evidence that having a league specifically with relegation is a determining factor in World Cup success. That is correlation not causation.

[trueviking]

I’m from Winnipeg. My city has almost a million people. The 7th largest city in the country. Its only professional soccer team averages 3,000 fans per game….in a 32,000 seat stadium…This dream about having professional teams in every town and city across the country is ridiculous.

[trueviking]

Also silly to debate about calling it football. We already have a game called football with a very long history and the largest domestic professional league of any sport in the country. The game played with a round ball will always be called soccer. It has no impact on how good our players are or how successful our national team is or ever will be.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by trueviking

I’m from Winnipeg. My city has almost a million people. Its only professional soccer team averages 3,000 fans per game…. in a 32,000 seat stadium…This dream about having professional teams in every town and city across the country is ridiculous.

And the team in the "not thriving" CFL has drawn 32k capacity crowds for the past 11? games.

The problem is the poster's romantic Euro and SA dreams and opinions are riddled with dis and misinformation of the NA scene. I would blame it on the modern ignorance of youth and history but I don't know how old the poster is.

By most metrics MLS has done fairly well as has the CPL as long as it operates within its means. Those means are crowds in the 2k-6k range

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Also silly to debate about calling it football. We already have a game called football with a very long history and the largest domestic professional league of any sport in the country. The game played with a round ball will always be called soccer. It has no impact on how good our players are or how successful our national team is or ever will be.

I think it would have an impact of developing true, football culture in Canada. We're capable of differentiating the two sports called football, without continuing to embrace the word soccer, which is very much an Americanism, even if the British coined the term a long time ago.

At least in association football (soccer) players are using their feet for most of the game, unlike gridiron football, where players are using their hands and brute force for most of the game.

I see no problem with using the term football for both, other than some upset CFL and NFL fans.

Canada would gain respect from the rest of the footballing world for embracing the term football and moving on from the term soccer.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I think it would have an impact of developing true, football culture in Canada. We're capable of differentiating the two sports called football, without continuing to embrace the word soccer, which is very much an Americanism, even if the British coined the term a long time ago.

Canada would gain respect from the rest of the footballing world for embracing the term football and moving on from the term soccer.

Totally ridiculous takes but what I've come to expect. Why does there need to be a soccer "culture"?

The beauty of NA sporting culture is that usually you can go to a game, sit by an opposition fan and usually expect to enjoy a game without personal injury. Of course there have been exceptions but that is the norm.

Why do we need to copy someone else's culture? The Canadian NT has their own culture. Without looking it up do you know what the Ho and Phillip's Bakery are? That's part of our culture, culture that was organic not copied. Do you know what the Vs are?

Canada will earn respect doing just what we are doing now, by having a good soccer team and players. Do I need to post examples of articles to show you how the team has respect. There have been plenty of videos and the player movement should tell you that.

I'm not sure if these "wishing' posts are some form of AI or trolling out of the blue but I already heard them more than 20 years ago and they were BS then and still are, and for some reason usually propagated by Celtic fans for whatever that is worth (see BigSoccer)

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by elly63

Fantastic post, wish I could have communicated that as well as you did.

I can't stand when people can't be bothered to edit a post down to its relevant points but everything you said was such a great point so I'm only going to remove a few sentences.

You picked the perfect word to describe the zeal for his points. A long time ago I remember a politician speaking about how easy it is to get younger people hooked on things like separatism because it's a romantic notion to try and start your own country. Romantic yes, easy, no. Danielle Smith commented on that not long ago when she tempered the wannabe separatists with the reality of how difficult (if not impossible) it would be to accomplish.

I suspect the poster sees this as a romantic venture to "right" Canada's ship from its wavering course but not realizing how the folks he romanticizes were the primary causes of the rough waters.

The soccer zealots have a particular zeal to convert others to the only game that seems to exist in their mind by trying to demean and degrade other sports which is particularly naive in Canada when we are so invested in so many other sports and winter sports to boot. Those are issues that aren't faced in South America and Africa where soccer can easily take the forefront.

First off if you're going to call me a zealot, at least use the proper terminology. I think we should be calling it football, not soccer.

Second of all, what's up with the three biggest "soccer" teams in Canada calling themselves football clubs?

I just happen to have a respect for the traditions of association football, including using the proper term to refer to the sport. I'm not even degrading other sports leagues in Canada, you're the one bringing them up and essentially saying that because this is Canada, we should have fixed franchises for professional soccer (like the rest of North American sports leagues) and not have a system of relegation and promotion (the the vast majority of football leagues have around the world)

As for Canada having other sports, yeah no really, lol. However, association football (soccer) is by far and away the most popular sport among newcomers in Canada. I think we're already basically at the point where association football (soccer) is a more popular sport in Canada than gridion football... and if we could see the Canada wide viewership numbers for non official, online streams the EPL, La Liga, and other European football leagues, those numbers would probably far surpass those of the official viewership numbers of the CFL.


Putting the soccer/football terminology debate aside, the biggest concern I have for the future of the game in Canada, is the structure of the professional league. I think the professional game would be much better off in Canada, if there were two divisions with a system of promotion and relegation. Moreover, I think the CPL and professional game in Canada will never truly flourish while the top three football clubs in Canada (Toronto Football Club, Vancouver White Caps Football Club, and Club de Foot Montréal compete in the MLS, a league which is governed by the United States Soccer Federation. Canada would be much better off following the likes of Brazil, England, France, Germany, etc, and adopt a national league system for the professional game in Canada... and move away from the fixed franchise model that is common in North America.

Originally Posted by trueviking

This is a funny comment “ Literally every country that has won the World Cup of Football have national professional leagues at home with systems of promotion and relegation”.

There is no evidence that having a league specifically with relegation is a determining factor in World Cup success. That is correlation not causation.

You can find it all funny all you want, but there's been 22 World Cups since 1930, and not a single country has ever won the World Cup that didn't have a national league with a system of promotion and relegation. You call it correlation, not causation... I call it a pattern.

I'd say there's lots of evidence to suggest that the countries that have had professional leagues with fix franchises (Like Canada and the United States) do poorly at the World Cup of Football, as evidenced by both the US and Canadian Men's teams historically poor showings at the the World Cup.

I'm not sure why Canada should follow a more American league format with fixed franchises, when the vast majority of football leagues around the world have systems of relegation and promotion. Perhaps a system for promotion and relegation wouldn't be popular among fans of the NHL, MLB, NBA, NFL, and CFL, but I'd say there's a whole world of evidence out there to suggest that the relegation/ promotion system is incredibly popular in the world of club football, and I'd argue it's one of the most interesting and exciting traditions and systems in professional sports. I think it's very much a shame that professional club football in Canada has yet to adopt a system of relegation and promotion. Hopefully one day we do.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

at least use the proper terminology. I think we should be calling it football, not soccer.

So why are the people you idolize and romanticize calling their show this:

• Video Link

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by elly63

Totally ridiculous takes but what I've come to expect. Why does there need to be a soccer "culture"?

The beauty of NA sporting culture is that usually you can go to a game, sit by an opposition fan and usually expect to enjoy a game without personal injury. Of course there have been exceptions but that is the norm.

Why do we need to copy someone else's culture? The Canadian NT has their own culture. Without looking it up do you know what the Ho and Phillip's Bakery are? That's part of our culture, culture that was organic not copied. Do you know what the Vs are?

Canada will earn respect doing just what we are doing now, by having a good soccer team and players. Do I need to post examples of articles to show you how the team has respect. There have been plenty of videos and the player movement should tell you that.

I'm not sure if these "wishing' posts are some form of AI or trolling out of the blue but I already heard them more than 20 years ago and they were BS then and still are, and for some reason usually propagated by Celtic fans for whatever that is worth (see BigSoccer)

The Canadian NT mostly has had mostly a culture of losing, until very recently. I am also a hoops supporter! Though, I am not a fan of AI!

Again, Elly... I just think you can't see the big picture here, and you're stuck in your ways. I'm really not trying to convince you of anything here, as you're too stubborn to be convinced of anything, I think.

Originally Posted by trueviking

I’m from Winnipeg. My city has almost a million people. The 7th largest city in the country. Its only professional soccer team averages 3,000 fans per game….in a 32,000 seat stadium…This dream about having professional teams in every town and city across the country is ridiculous.

I'm from Winnipeg too.

I'm sure if, one day, the Winnipeg Football Club was in a relegation battle with the Regina Football Club they'd get 32,000 people in those seats!

I don't think the dream of having professional clubs in the top 20 or 30 CMAs in Canada is a ridiculous one, at all. Association football (soccer) is one of the most popular sports in Canada and continuing to rise in popularity.

Professional football leagues in Europe have professional clubs among the top two or three divisions in places that could be considered towns or small cities. There's also been EPL stadiums with barely more than 10,000 seats. There's no reason why every professional club in Canada would beed a stadium of 20,000 or 30,000 + seats.

This is a map of some of the smaller places in Europe with clubs in the top flights of European football.



If we looked at places in these same countries with professional clubs in the second and third divisions, there would be lots of places even smaller than Canada's smallest CMAs. Same with some of the other top flights in smaller countries.


I just think Canada is missing out by not adopting this type of professional league format. I think it would be a far more exciting situation that the system that exists today.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by elly63

So why are the people you idolize and romanticize calling their show this:

• Video Link

I'd say they probably chose that name, because of the pleasant sounding alliteration!

Much like the nickname Soccer City Stadium in Johannesburg, South Africa... a country that uses the term football more commonly than the term soccer.

Here's a question for you, Elly (and something which you keep ignoring):

Why are the top three "soccer" clubs in Canada called: the Toronto Football Club, Vancouver Whitecaps Football Club, and Club de Foot Montréal, if we live in a country where we are supposed to call the sport soccer?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I don't think the dream of having professional clubs in the top 20 or 30 CMAs in Canada is a ridiculous one, at all. Association football (soccer) is one of the most popular sports in Canada and continuing to rise in popularity.

I just think Canada is missing out by not adopting this type of professional league format. I think it would be a far more exciting situation that the system that exists today.

And you would think wrong. MLS and CPL were not formulated to your worldly view because no one wanted them to be.

I come back to the kids thinking we should give Communism another try. You lack historical knowledge so you raise issues that were discarded years ago because THE MAJORITY did not want them, and still don't.

Do you honestly think a Toronto team wants to be in a league with Kamloops and Lethbridge (no offense) when they are in a league with NYC and LA.

You're getting to be like the Taylor Swift guy and keep bringing up a dead horse with childlike zeal.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Why are the top three "soccer" clubs in Canada called, the Toronto Football Club, Vancouver Whitecaps Football Club, and Club de Foot Montréal, if we live in a country where we are supposed to call the sport soccer?

You're not supposed to call it anything. Call it what you want, just don't keep making up your BS. Ever heard of the CSA (Canadian Soccer Association) the national governing body of SOCCER?

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by elly63

And you would think wrong. MLS and CPL were not formulated to your worldly view because no one wanted them to be.

[...]

Do you honestly think a Toronto team wants to be in a league with Kamloops and Lethbridge (no offense) when they are in a league with NYC and LA.

That's like your opinion, man.

I think the Toronto Football Club would want to be in a league with other clubs in say Moncton, NB and St. John's, NL.

The Arsenal and Chelsea Football Clubs of London, England seem to have no problems being in the same English Premier League a league with teams in Bournemouth and Swansea.

Now who's being a snob!

Originally Posted by elly63

You're not supposed to call it anything. Call it what you want, just don't keep making up your BS. Ever heard of the CSA (Canadian Soccer Association) the national governing body of SOCCER?

Way to avoid answering the question, man. I'd say stop having such a BS, myopic outlook about what the professional game in Canada could look like... but again, I expect nothing less from you, Elly!

Let's try again...

Why are the top three "soccer" clubs in Canada called: the Toronto Football Club, Vancouver Whitecaps Football Club, and Club de Foot Montréal, when we live in a country that mostly refers to the sport as soccer?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I think the Toronto Football Club would want to be in a league with other clubs in say Moncton, NB and St. John's, NL.

It's difficult to respond to your childlike posts (replete with the cartoons to prove it) when they are so laughable to the point of trolling. The quoted sentence proves the point.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by elly63

It's difficult to respond to your childlike posts (replete with the cartoons to prove it) when they are so laughable to the point of trolling. The quoted sentence proves the point.

And it's pretty frustrating to keep responding to you when you can't even answer a simple question like: why are Canada's top three "soccer clubs" called football clubs?

You call my posts childlike, i call them striving for something better.

I'd call many of your posts cynical, crotchety, and even downright cantankerous. Nonetheless, I appreciate the discussion.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

And it's pretty frustrating to keep responding to you when you can't even answer a simple question like: why are Canada's top three "soccer clubs" called football clubs?

I'd call many of your posts cynical, crotchety, and even downright cantankerous. Nonetheless, I appreciate the discussion.

You keep raising the same meaningless question. They are called football clubs because that is what the owners chose to call them. Why is the CSA called the CSA? Why is the sky blue?

To answer your other response, sometimes older people who have dealt with an issue frequently and long ago get frustrated when children keep asking questions without knowledge of the past or doing the requisite research.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by elly63

You keep raising the same meaningless question. They are called football clubs because that is what the owners chose to call them. Why is the CSA called the CSA? Why is the sky blue?

To answer your other response, sometimes older people who have dealt with an issue frequently and long ago get frustrated when children keep asking questions without knowledge of the past or doing the requisite research.

lmao, I don't think there's requisite research required to have this discussion regarding the terms "football" vs "soccer" or how a system of relegation and promotion would make the professional game better or more exciting. It's a subjective discussion.

Though, I'd say there's a world of evidence out there (from football leagues around the world) that suggest the leagues with systems of relegation and promotion are both better and more exciting than the leagues without relegation and promotion.

You can disagree with my opinion without calling it childlike, but you seem to have a very hard time doing so.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

You can disagree with my opinion without calling it childlike, but you seem to have a very hard time doing so.

It's difficult when someone keeps asking why the sky is blue, I believe this is your third time coming to this thread with that and you've hardly contributed to the thread otherwise with any info about players or the teams (NT or professional).

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by elly63

It's difficult when someone keeps asking why the sky is blue, I believe this is your third time coming to this thread with that and you've hardly contributed to the thread otherwise with any info about players or the teams (NT or professional).

It's difficult when you resort to such simplistic, inaccurate caricatures of my posts, but again, I expect nothing less from you, Elly!

You don't have to agree with my contributions to the thread, or agree with my opinions, as you clearly don't. However, I'd prefer if you'd cut it out with the "child" comparisons, as it's quite a weak and lazy way to refute what I'm getting at here.

I'm still working on a map of what a two division, with a system of promotion and relegation could look like the professional game in Canada. I was considered posting it as a poll thread when I'm done with the map, but I'll probably post it here first.