The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[cdnguys]

Would love a clean slate of new professionals / cross section of city minus the Harris/Killan drama.

[irisheyes]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Would love a clean slate of new professionals / cross section of city minus the Harris/Killan drama.

Big issue is lack of true professionals at city hall. Instead we have these amorphous "growth coordinators" and pretend planners.

[paperplane]

TJ updates (3 separate articles):

Harris and Killen officially not running next year.

Lowe wants to abolish the Police Commission Board.

Hickey and Fresh Start say they were not consulted RE: red zone encampment plan. Which seems like another huge fumble by City Staff--their growth directors and planners really seem to be in over their head/making it up as they go (see Wolastoq Park & Lorneville debacles, and now the red zone mess).

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by paperplane

TJ updates (3 separate articles):

Harris and Killen officially not running next year.

Lowe wants to abolish the Police Commission Board.

Hickey and Fresh Start say they were not consulted RE: red zone encampment plan. Which seems like another huge fumble by City Staff--their growth directors and planners really seem to be in over their head/making it up as they go (see Wolastoq Park & Lorneville debacles, and now the red zone mess).

In fairness to the city, they are scrambling to deal with the fallout from an issue (homelessness) that is not in their bailiwick. Treatment of drug addiction, mental health services, public/subsidized housing and the criminal justice system are 100% provincial responsibilities.

With regard to the last item, city police can continue to haul offenders in but until the courts have somewhere to send them (and the will to do so) it is just a revolving door.

[paperplane]

Originally Posted by sailor734

In fairness to the city, they are scrambling to deal with the fallout from an issue (homelessness) that is not in their bailiwick. Treatment of drug addiction, mental health services, public/subsidized housing and the criminal justice system are 100% provincial responsibilities.

With regard to the last item, city police can continue to haul offenders in but until the courts have somewhere to send them (and the will to do so) it is just a revolving door.

For sure. But not involving all the necessary stakeholders, including the Province, seems shortsighted, especially on a file they're going to get skewered over regardless.

Scrambling does seems like the best adjective to describe the City on many huge files/issues though.

Could even say the Province is scrambling too--Education (librarians, breakfast, lunch, teachers, education minister), Health Care (care clinics, nurse's contract), NB Power, Clean Air Act, Natural Resources, Wildfires, Lieutenant Governor, Homelessness/Housing, etc.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by paperplane

For sure. But not involving all the necessary stakeholders, including the Province, seems shortsighted, especially on a file they're going to get skewered over regardless.

Scrambling does seems like the best adjective to describe the City on many huge files/issues though.

Could even say the Province is scrambling too--Education (librarians, breakfast, lunch, teachers, education minister), Health Care (care clinics, nurse's contract), NB Power, Clean Air Act, Natural Resources, Wildfires, Lieutenant Governor, Homelessness/Housing, etc.

But did the city really not consult with Fresh Start and Minister Hickey?.......or did the final decision taken by the city just not sit well with them? The mayor seemed to indicate the she feels the city did consult and both Hickey and Fresh Start knew what was being contemplated.

From a recent TJ article....."Saint John Mayor Donna Reardon says Hickey, a former city councillor, was on board with the city’s Housing for All strategy – which calls for the creation of colour-coded zones to manage homeless encampments – when the policy was adopted during his time on council."

and........

"Reardon says she was under the impression that Fresh Start was on board with the creation of red zones, as it was part of the long-term housing strategy all along."


Both quotes from......

https://tj.news/new-brunswick/housing-mi...homelessness?itm_source=saint-john-south

[adamuptownsj]

The city has no duty to consult with/take orders from Fresh Start. Fresh Start is a contractor. They must not set policy or direct council votes. The city has worsened since they appeared. Their behaviour this week should result in council revoking the contract.

The whole concept of outsourcing this instead of adding some city staff with clear accountability and ability/desire to collaborate with other departments does not sit well with me. Having a 'homeless outreach contractor' is basically like creating a self-licking ice cream cone. The worse it gets, the more we need them, and so on.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

The city has no duty to consult with/take orders from Fresh Start. Fresh Start is a contractor. They must not set policy or direct council votes. The city has worsened since they appeared. Their behaviour this week should result in council revoking the contract.

The whole concept of outsourcing this instead of adding some city staff with clear accountability and ability/desire to collaborate with other departments does not sit well with me. Having a 'homeless outreach contractor' is basically like creating a self-licking ice cream cone. The worse it gets, the more we need them, and so on.

Agreed. I've always wondered about Fresh Start. They would seem to have a vested interest in the status quo. As long as the problem persists so do they and their city funding. I read in one of the recent TJ articles they are looking to hire four new staff......seems like a growth industry.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

The city has no duty to consult with/take orders from Fresh Start. Fresh Start is a contractor. They must not set policy or direct council votes. The city has worsened since they appeared. Their behaviour this week should result in council revoking the contract.

The whole concept of outsourcing this instead of adding some city staff with clear accountability and ability/desire to collaborate with other departments does not sit well with me.

Wow, another rare case of agreement. lol

... and as Sailor mentioned with regards to the article about Fresh Start in the Telegraph-Journal, I don't exactly think homelessness should be considered a "growth industry". Affordable housing, however, should absolutely be considered a growth industry!

Personally, I think the province should be stepping up to fund much more ambitious solutions... starting with solutions that massively increase the supply of affordable rental units for middle and lower income people who are currently struggling to afford rent.

Yet, it seems the province's approach is mostly focussed on providing homes for those with ultra low incomes, or even no income at all.

I don't think David Hickey's photo ops in front of one tiny housing project after another are exactly instilling much confidence in the current provincial government doing a better job than the previous government.

[CharlotteSJ]

https://tj.news/new-brunswick/more-out-o...hn-streets-police-chief?itm_source=index

I knew this was the case, but now it is confirmed. More out-of-town/province people are showing up here and contributing to the homelessness/crime issues.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by CharlotteSJ

https://tj.news/new-brunswick/more-out-o...hn-streets-police-chief?itm_source=index

I knew this was the case, but now it is confirmed. More out-of-town/province people are showing up here and contributing to the homelessness/crime issues.

I wonder if more are coming from KV/ Grand Bay or Moncton/ Fredericton?

I can't imagine that many homeless Canadians are coming here all the way from Western Canada, but Saint John would sure as hell be a more pleasant place to try and rough it for the winter in a tent than Winnipeg or Edmonton.




Parts of Saint John and Southwestern NB reach the 6a zone according to the plant hardiness scale (above) and I wouldn't surprised if many of the coastal regions are closer to a 6b now, as global warming continues to intensify. We have milder winters here in Saint John than most places in Canada east of BC.

I think we need a much ambitious plan from the province to rapidly increase the supply of deeply affordable rental housing, so we can at least do everything we can to help the people who actually want to be helped.

Moreover, it would be good to see much more substantial help and action from the bedroom communities, who seem to think homelessness here in the Saint John Region is more of a city and a provincial problem, than it is a regional problem...

[bingun]

Next week's PAC Agenda is out, and it's a non-event—just an item relating to solar developments and a road extension.

Has the new zoning reduced the need for items to go to PAC, or is there just very little in the works right now?

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by CharlotteSJ

https://tj.news/new-brunswick/more-out-o...hn-streets-police-chief?itm_source=index

I knew this was the case, but now it is confirmed. More out-of-town/province people are showing up here and contributing to the homelessness/crime issues.

Lots of rumours have been floating around for awhile now about the KV police giving "rides" into SJ from the valley.

Not sure I'd believe that but........... there are no encampments on the Rothesay Common so......

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Lots of rumours have been floating around for awhile now about the KV police giving "rides" into SJ from the valley.

Not sure I'd believe that but........... there are no encampments on the Rothesay Common so......

Pretty disappointing if true.

[Bishop2047]

Originally Posted by CharlotteSJ

https://tj.news/new-brunswick/more-out-o...hn-streets-police-chief?itm_source=index

I knew this was the case, but now it is confirmed. More out-of-town/province people are showing up here and contributing to the homelessness/crime issues.

I think this is true, while not nefarious in nature. Consider a man who has exhausted all means of support in his rural community, where does that person inevitably end up? Homeless/mentally ill/those suffering with addictions, will always be drawn to the city, as the city has services and support for people in his position.

We often saw this in northern cities to a much higher degree. Rural Northern communities lack most of the supports a homeless person would want to access, so they end up in Prince George, Prince Albert, Edmonton, Winnipeg.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Bishop2047

I think this is true, while not nefarious in nature. Consider a man who has exhausted all means of support in his rural community, where does that person inevitably end up? Homeless/mentally ill/those suffering with addictions, will always be drawn to the city, as the city has services and support for people in his position.

We often saw this in northern cities to a much higher degree. Rural Northern communities lack most of the supports a homeless person would want to access, so they end up in Prince George, Prince Albert, Edmonton, Winnipeg.

That's fine, but clearly we need to also build resources in the bedroom communities of our cities too. Unlike Winnipeg, Edmonton, and Saskatoon... Saint John, Moncton, and Fredericton have a huge % of their CMA population living outside of the city limits.

I totally get these people without homes not wanting to live in small towns with no resources, but here in the Saint John Region, it seems the bedroom communities don't want to host any shelters, soup kitchens, or transitional housing developments. They just want to be part of solutions that take place within the city, which isn't entirely fair to the city at the centre of the region.

I'm not saying we need to inflict the horrors of Waterloo street on the nice, kind people of Rothesay and Quispamsis, but maybe they could consider opening a shelter or two? Or approve some transitional or supportive housing projects within their "towns"? It's really not fair that Saint John is expected to take on the complex, regional issue of homelessness almost entirely within its city limits, when almost 50% of the Saint John CMA lives outside the city limits.

I'm sure Rothesay and Quispamsis would have the nicest supportive and transitional housing developments in the whole region if they were willing to step up and be part of the solution and not just micro manage our city by having their residents in charge of a lot of key decisions that impact the city of Saint John, including roles in the city's senior management.

[paperplane]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

That's fine, but clearly we need to also build resources in the bedroom communities of our cities too. Unlike Winnipeg, Edmonton, and Saskatoon... Saint John, Moncton, and Fredericton have a huge % of their CMA population living outside of the city limits.

I totally get these people without homes not wanting to live in small towns with no resources, but here in the Saint John Region, it seems the bedroom communities don't want to host any shelters, soup kitchens, or transitional housing developments. They just want to be part of solutions that take place within the city, which isn't entirely fair to the city at the centre of the region.

I'm not saying we need to inflict the horrors of Waterloo street on the nice, kind people of Rothesay and Quispamsis, but maybe they could consider opening a shelter or two? Or approve some transitional or supportive housing projects within their "towns"? It's really not fair that Saint John is expected to take on the complex, regional issue of homelessness almost entirely within its city limits, when almost 50% of the Saint John CMA lives outside the city limits.

I'm sure Rothesay and Quispamsis would have the nicest supportive and transitional housing developments in the whole region if they were willing to step up and be part of the solution and not just micro manage our city by having their residents in charge of a lot of key decisions that impact the city of Saint John, including roles in the city's senior management.

A dynamic as old as time: City run/controlled/hamstrung by people that live in the peripheral affluent towns; will never amalgamate, but will never function properly.

Imagine if GBW-SJ-R-Q were to amalgamate, it would allow for a lot more possibilities to address some issues.

[sailor734]

Reading between the lines it looks like the city may already be backpedaling on parts of the Red Zone plan.

https://tj.news/saint-john-south/city-do...onna-reardon?itm_source=saint-john-south

"Changes likely in store for city’s homeless plan: mayor
City staff in talks with Fresh Start Services, Department of Social Development"

Maybe the time for this was before they adopted this plan with such fanfare?

[sailor734]

This article does a good job summing up the competing viewpoints on this issue.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-homeless-red-zones-1.7631418

I find this last paragraph telling......

"McDonald said he believes there were more appropriate resources decades ago, at the provincial psychiatric hospital in the city, and an addiction treatment facility centre. He called for those kinds of facilities to get funding."

He's not wrong. I suspect most of the homeless belong in one of 4 places. 1. A residential drug treatment facility, 2. a secure mental health facility, 3. subsidized housing with social supports like life skills coaching, job training etc and 4. Jail

All four of these types of facilities are a provincial responsibility NOT that of a municipality.

I can certainly understand why McDonald is seeing interest in Steepleview's market rate apartments evaporate. Who in their right mind would want to live on Waterloo the way it is today?

[bingun]

Developer, support group at odds over Saint John homeless approach

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-homeless-red-zones-1.7631418

So, we are at the stage where Melanie Vautour is going to derail and dictate city policy?

McDonald, of Steepleview Developments, thinks the approach supported by Vautour has only compounded the problems.

"We support them, we give them everything," he said. "So why would they change their lifestyle? Waterloo Village is now a ghetto.

Asked to elaborate on how much the prospective tenant list was shrinking, McDonald wasn't specific, but said: "Badly enough that are we just building a vacant building?"

New Brunswick Housing can be counted on to provide tenants for the 28 designated subsidized units, but the project also hinges on getting market rent from the other 28 units, he said.

"For those people who want to downsize, move closer to family or be closer to their church, it's impossible because now they fear for their safety," McDonald said.

Conditions have been like a "war zone" for construction workers, said McDonald.

"Assaults, break and enters, thefts, police called regularly, vehicles stolen. One individual was knocked out on Waterloo Street. Another one was bear-sprayed.

"They come in with their traffic vests. Workers believe that they're part of the construction team. They end up going through their vehicles, taking their tools."

Steepleview hired a security company to patrol the site nine hours a night at a cost of $120,000, he said.