Soccer in Canada | Canada Hosting the 2026 World Cup

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by jonny24

@EnvisionSaintJohn, is that satire? Or are you genuinely that horny to copy Euro-style soccer?

I don't feel like arguing everything you said point by point, but I'll just make two points that I'm sure you already know.

1. The term soccer was invented by the British, in Britain.

2. As you were so close to pointing out, "football" ALWAYS means "the locally dominant form of football". In NA that means gridiron football, in Britain that means soccer, in New Zealand "footy" means rugby, and in Aus "footy" means either rugby league or Aussie rules, again depending where you are as it's regional.

I don't feel the need to say I'm horny for Euro-style football, and I take issue with only mentioning the Euros! True football culture does exist in the Americas, but it's mostly found south of the US border. Latin American countries, especially South American countries have much more authentic association football leagues than we have here in Canada, and they sure as hell don't call the sport soccer. I just want Canada to adopt and emulate the type of format for professional soccer that gets the whole country interested... where where have a system of relegation and promotion between at least two of the top divisions, and where the the CPL is the top flight of Canadian football, not the MLS!

Yes, I'm aware the British coined the term soccer, and that some other countries use the term soccer, like Australia, but I'd hardly call Australia a major footballing nation, or a country/ region Canada could learn from if we ever want to have a really successful national league, or win the World Cup of Football one day. The British stopped using the term soccer ages ago, and most of the "footballing world" absolutely hates that the Americans use it, and probably don't take Canada as seriously because we also use the term soccer. Also, look at how the Canadian sports media approaches their coverage of the sports... they go out of there way to find presenters with English, Scottish, or Irish accents to make their coverage seem more authentic, and less American. This is quite evident when comparing the TSN and and Fox Sports' coverage on TV.

Moreover, Football doesn't always mean the locally dominant form of football... Look at Ireland do you think they say soccer and Gaelic football? No, they say football and Gaelic football. Imo, Ireland does it properly, while Australia and Canada continue to use this very American term.

South Africa uses both the terms football and soccer, but football is the more commonly used term, while their FA is called the South African Football Association. Unfortunately, their national team is still called the South African National Soccer Team, but that will hopefully change one day...

Also, look at the names of Canada's three top "soccer" teams... The Toronto Football Club (Toronto FC), Vancouver White Caps Football Club, and CF Montréal (Club de Foot Montréal). Why do they use the term football in their name if Canadians are supposed to call it soccer? I imagine they use these names to try and be taken more seriously by the rest of the footballing world, despite the contradictory name of the league they belong to. Why not go further and actually take the steps needed for Canada to eventually stop using or drastically lower the usage of the term soccer.


Association football has often been described as "the world's game" or the "beautiful game", but here in Canada we still refer to it by it's not so beautiful name, that most of the footballing world HATES! ... and it's not just the Europeans that hate the term soccer, but the vast majority of fans of the game worldwide. Soccer might have been coined by the British, but its modern usage is very much an Americanism, and it's a term that I wish Canada would largely move on from.


Languages evolve, as has the sport evolved in Canada. Canadian association football (soccer) has hugely benefitted from international migration to Canada, and most of Canada's best players were either born outside the country, or are second or third generation Canadians who's families hail from regions where the sport is called football, not soccer. I'd imagine that among most first generation Canadians and Australians they refer to the sport as football, not soccer, and that may sometimes transfer to second and third generation Canadians. As I said, language evolves, and it's my hope is that the usage of the term soccer is eventually displaced by the proper term, football. I hope that Canada becomes a country with true footballing culture, and that we stop using the term soccer, so we are taken more seriously by the rest of the world as a footballing nation.

I think our Minister of Sport and Canadian Soccer Association could get the ball rolling in a big way, and make a big announcement before the 2026 World Cup (which we are sort of hosting) that Canada is no longer going to officially use the term soccer, starting in 2026, and that the name of the Canadian Soccer Association will be officially renamed The Canadian Football Association.

Like it or not, association football (soccer) is a much more popular sport in Canada than Canadian football, and matters a lot more in the global context. I think it would be a hugely beneficial development for Canada in the long term to move away from calling it soccer, and start calling it football. If we go by your definition that "football" ALWAYS means "the locally dominant form of football", then I'd say we're already at the the point where association football (soccer) is the dominant form of football in Canada, over Canadian football. Association football (soccer) is already the most population participation sport in Canada, and its popularity as a spectator sport has absolutely exploded over the past ten years, and it's only going to get more popular. I just think it would be a positive development for the sport in Canada if the term football eventually displaces the term soccer.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I don't feel the need to say I'm horny for Euro-style football, and I take issue with only mentioning the Euros! True football culture does exist in the Americas, but it's mostly found south of the US border. Latin American countries, especially South American countries have much more authentic association football leagues than we have here in Canada, and they sure as hell don't call the sport soccer. I just want Canada to adopt and emulate the type of format for professional soccer that gets the whole country interested... where where have a system of relegation and promotion between at least two of the top divisions, and where the the CPL is the top flight of Canadian football, not the MLS!

Yes, I'm aware the British coined the term soccer, and that some other countries use the term soccer, like Australia, but I'd hardly call Australia a major footballing nation, or a country/ region Canada could learn from if we ever want to have a really successful national league, or win the World Cup of Football one day. The British stopped using the term soccer ages ago, and most of the "footballing world" absolutely hates that the Americans use it, and probably don't take Canada as seriously because we also use the term soccer. Also, look at how the Canadian sports media approaches their coverage of the sports... they go out of there way to find presenters with English, Scottish, or Irish accents to make their coverage seem more authentic, and less American. This is quite evident when comparing the TSN and and Fox Sports' coverage on TV.

Moreover, Football doesn't always mean the locally dominant form of football... Look at Ireland do you think they say soccer and Gaelic football? No, they say football and Gaelic football. Imo, Ireland does it properly, while Australia and Canada continue to use this very American term.

South Africa uses both the terms football and soccer, but football is the more commonly used term, while their FA is called the South African Football Association. Unfortunately, their national team is still called the South African National Soccer Team, but that will hopefully change one day...

Also, look at the names of Canada's three top "soccer" teams... The Toronto Football Club (Toronto FC), Vancouver White Caps Football Club, and CF Montréal (Club de Foot Montréal). Why do they use the term football in their name if Canadians are supposed to call it soccer? I imagine they use these names to try and be taken more seriously by the rest of the footballing world, despite the contradictory name of the league they belong to. Why not go further and actually take the steps needed for Canada to eventually stop using or drastically lower the usage of the term soccer.


Association football has often been described as "the world's game" or the "beautiful game", but here in Canada we still refer to it by it's not so beautiful name, that most of the footballing world HATES! ... and it's not just the Europeans that hate the term soccer, but the vast majority of fans of the game worldwide. Soccer might have been coined by the British, but its modern usage is very much an Americanism, and it's a term that I wish Canada would largely move on from.


Languages evolve, as has the sport evolved in Canada. Canadian association football (soccer) has hugely benefitted from international migration to Canada, and most of Canada's best players were either born outside the country, or are second or third generation Canadians who's families hail from regions where the sport is called football, not soccer. I'd imagine that among most first generation Canadians and Australians they refer to the sport as football, not soccer, and that may sometimes transfer to second and third generation Canadians. As I said, language evolves, and it's my hope is that the usage of the term soccer is eventually displaced by the proper term, football. I hope that Canada becomes a country with true footballing culture, and that we stop using the term soccer, so we are taken more seriously by the rest of the world as a footballing nation.

I think our Minister of Sport and Canadian Soccer Association could get the ball rolling in a big way, and make a big announcement before the 2026 World Cup (which we are sort of hosting) that Canada is no longer going to officially use the term soccer, starting in 2026, and that the name of the Canadian Soccer Association will be officially renamed The Canadian Football Association.

Like it or not, association football (soccer) is a much more popular sport in Canada than Canadian football, and matters a lot more in the global context. I think it would be a hugely beneficial development for Canada in the long term to move away from calling it soccer, and start calling it football. If we go by your definition that "football" ALWAYS means "the locally dominant form of football", then I'd say we're already at the the point where association football (soccer) is the dominant form of football in Canada, over Canadian football. Association football (soccer) is already the most population participation sport in Canada, and its popularity as a spectator sport has absolutely exploded over the past ten years, and it's only going to get more popular. I just think it would be a positive development for the sport in Canada if the term football eventually displaces the term soccer.

This the world calls it football is such a weird take. 90% of the English speaking world actually doesn't call it Football.

Like many languages adopted the word Lift that doesn't mean we need to switch. We speak Canadian English for better or worse which is similar to American English and in a modern sense perhaps dominated by it but that's not why we call Football Football and Soccer Soccer.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by elly63

We've just beaten two European teams "at their own game", not sure why he wants us to copy them.

We beat two rather middling teams in Romania and Wales. I want us to learn from and emulate the success of the most successful footballing countries, which includes many Latin American countries, not just European countries!

Call me when Canada beats another country that has won a European Championship, or the World Cup.

The Canadian mens team have beaten some Copa América winners, including Chile (2 times Copa winners), Colombia (1 time winner), and mostly recently they beat Peru at the last Copa, Peru being the winners of the inaugural Copa América. These were more more significant wins, imo!

Canada got VERY close to beating the Uruguayans at the last Cup, but they snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, at the last moment, and I'm still pissed about that!

Imo, that would have been the proudest moment in the history of the mens team, beating Uruguay, a two time World Cup Champion. I'm still incredibly impressed with the Canadian mens team based on their showing at the last Copa América, and I have high hopes for them at the next world cup.

I hope we can shock the world and become the country to go furthest of any country that calls it soccer (which is still the United States) thanks to their third place finish in the inaugural World Cup in 1930.

I feel like Canada is well on it's way to leap frogging the US Men's team, and I think the results of the 2026 World Cup reflect this!

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

This the world calls it football is such a weird take. 90% of the English speaking world actually doesn't call it Football.

Like many languages adopted the word Lift that doesn't mean we need to switch. We speak Canadian English for better or worse which is similar to American English and in a modern sense perhaps dominated by it but that's not why we call Football Football and Soccer Soccer.

And I think it's weird that most Canadian "soccer" teams call themselves "football clubs"... like what's up with that?

As for the bolded... source? I'd say it really depends on what you mean by the "English Speaking World". If we go by native English speaking countries only, that's what, 450 or so million people? By that definition, the United States is the vast majority of this "world".

If we go by the entire English speaking world, of which there are now possibly more than 2 billion speakers globally, I'd say the vast majority of that English speaking world refers to the world's game as football, not soccer!

The vast majority of the footballing world HATES the word soccer, because it's seen as an Americanism. I think most of the world sees the United States as a country that doesn't give the "world's game" the respect that it deserves.

I think we're either already close to the point in Canada where association football (soccer) is a more popular sport than gridiron football, and if we're not already there, we will be soon. Association football (soccer) is the most popular participation sport in Canada, with more participants than even ice hockey. Nonetheless, gridiron football (NFL/CFL) remains the more popular spectator sport according to official viewership. However, official viewership totals don't take into account the many non official ways Canadians watch European football and other football leagues around the world online. I'd reckon there's far more non official viewers of European football in Canada, than there are official viewers for the MLS and CPL in Canada.

I hope that when Canadian society gets to the point where association football (soccer) is, by far, the more popular sport compared to gridiron football, as both a participation and spectator sport... official name changes will be taken more seriously.

I'd still like to see us officially, change the name of the Canadian Soccer Association to the Canadian Football Association before the next world cup, but I do understand that's extremely unlikely to happen. Still, one can dream!

[elly63]

I'll tell you what I tell the wannabee Alberta American wannabes. If you want to be like them just go there, planes fly everyday.

Ice hockey? Seriously, you complain about soccer and call hockey ice hockey, living in Canada?

I also don't trust posters who have to constantly use cartoons to try and prop up their "arguments" Most of us have the ability to read, even the colonial babble to which you subject the rest of us.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

And I think it's weird that most Canadian "soccer" teams call themselves "football clubs"... like what's up with that?

As for the bolded... source? I'd say it really depends on what you mean by the "English Speaking World". If we go by native English speaking countries only, that's what, 450 or so million people? By that definition, the United States is the vast majority of this "world".

If we go by the entire English speaking world, of which there are now possibly more than 2 billion speakers globally, I'd say the vast majority of that English speaking world refers to the world's game as football, not soccer!

The vast majority of the footballing world HATES the word soccer, because it's seen as an Americanism. I think most of the world sees the United States as a country that doesn't give the "world's game" the respect that it deserves.

I think we're either already close to the point in Canada where association football (soccer) is a more popular sport than gridiron football, and if we're not already there, we will be soon. Association football (soccer) is the most popular participation sport in Canada, with more participants than even ice hockey. Nonetheless, gridiron football (NFL/CFL) remains the more popular spectator sport according to official viewership. However, official viewership totals don't take into account the many non official ways Canadians watch European football and other football leagues around the world online. I'd reckon there's far more non official viewers of European football in Canada, than there are official viewers for the MLS and CPL in Canada.

I hope that when Canadian society gets to the point where association football (soccer) is, by far, the more popular sport compared to gridiron football, as both a participation and spectator sport... official name changes will be taken more seriously.

I'd still like to see us officially, change the name of the Canadian Soccer Association to the Canadian Football Association before the next world cup, but I do understand that's extremely unlikely to happen. Still, one can dream!

Lots of good points and in the current environment a break from the US would be well timed for the World Cup. New Zealand is slowly adapting Football so it can be done.

CFL Football isn't really thriving so unlike the US immigrants don't seem as likely to adopt it even though Football is far more popular as a spectator sport than Soccer amongst those born in Canada. Soccer is super easy to participate in but at a higher level it does narrow a bit. Do we have more NFL players than in the Premier League (an imperfect proxy as several more could certianly make that leg)

[elly63]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Lots of good points and in the current environment a break from the US would be well timed for the World Cup. New Zealand is slowly adapting Football so it can be done.

CFL Football isn't really thriving so unlike the US immigrants don't seem as likely to adopt it even though Football is far more popular as a spectator sport than Soccer amongst those born in Canada. Soccer is super easy to participate in but at a higher level it does narrow a bit. Do we have more NFL players than in the Premier League (an imperfect proxy as several more could certianly make that leg)

There were ZERO good points to anyone who isn't a colonialist or anti American. What break do we need from the US aside from the same naive, unlikely arguments raised by the OP.

If the CFL isn't thriving someone should tell the billionaires to stop buying the franchises (because that is who is buying them now). They just had stadium record attendances last week in Regina and Hamilton and are a ratings mainstay for TSN. Winnipeg has had 11 consecutive sellouts of 32,343 while TFC is and the Whitecaps average about 20.9k with 5 CFL teams well ahead of that and one not far off.

Aside from the CFL there are over 30 Canadians on NFL rosters and ZERO in the EPL which is a place (the English soccer system) that has been a terrible place to try and develop Canadian talent.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by elly63

I'll tell you what I tell the wannabee Alberta American wannabes. If you want to be like them just go there, planes fly everyday.

Ice hockey? Seriously, you complain about soccer and call hockey ice hockey, living in Canada?

I also don't trust posters who have to constantly use cartoons to try and prop up their "arguments" Most of us have the ability to read, even the colonial babble to which you subject the rest of us.

FFS man, No, I call it hockey... I was just calling it ice hockey in that post to differentiate it from the other types of hockey that exist too, and are played in Canada... such as: field hockey, ball hockey, and roller hockey. When we're talking about which participation sports are most popular, it's important to be specific.

Association football (soccer) is the most popular participation sport in Canada and is a more popular sport (by number of participants) than ice hockey.

I think that's sad, by the way, but this isn't the thread to discuss the decline of hockey participation in Canada. Though, I did mention it in the Sports in Canadian Culture thread. Feel free to disagree with me there, like you always do!

[elly63]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Feel free to disagree with me there, like you always do!

I wouldn't need to but it seems only you have an endless uninformed opinion of simplicity and generalities that you feel you need to share.

If you knew anything you'd know how the foreigners and their condescension (let's copy the auld country) have retarded the growth of the game in this country with your tribalism.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Lots of good points and in the current environment a break from the US would be well timed for the World Cup. New Zealand is slowly adapting Football so it can be done.

CFL Football isn't really thriving so unlike the US immigrants don't seem as likely to adopt it even though Football is far more popular as a spectator sport than Soccer amongst those born in Canada. Soccer is super easy to participate in but at a higher level it does narrow a bit. Do we have more NFL players than in the Premier League (an imperfect proxy as several more could certianly make that leg)

Yeah the CFL not thriving is putting it quite lightly, imo. I'd say the league is floundering, and it's never really been popular across the country. The CFL is more of a Western Canadian, or really a Prairie phenomenon, with some teams in Eastern Canada. I guess the Hamilton Tiger-Cats have good fan support, but that's about it east of Winnipeg.

I think the CPL has the potential to far surpass the CFL in popularity, and unlike the CFL, I think the CPL has the potential to be popular across the entire country! However, I think the CPL needs a much grander vision than the one that exists today for their 8 team league. Moreover, I think the CPL will always be held back as long as the top three association football clubs in Canada (Toronto FC, Whitecaps FC, and CF Montreal) remain part of the MLS, an American Soccer league governed by The United States Soccer Federation.

I think Canada should follow the lead of Argentina, Brazil, England, France, Italy, Germany, etc, who all have national leagues for professional football in their countries, along with systems of relegation and promotion, which make those leagues far more interesting! The MLS model, which is an international league, and has no system for promotion and relegation, is an affront to the history and traditions of the world's game. I think Canada would be well served to get our top three clubs the hell out of the MLS, and into the CPL as soon as possible! The owners could sell those MLS franchises for billions and then join the CPL as the "big 3". If Canada eventually had 30 or 40 teams across the top two flights, along with a system of relegation and promotion, I think the professional game would be exponentially more interesting to follow than the CPL as it exists and operates today.

Association football (soccer) is clearly the most popular sport among first and second generation Canadians today, and I bet many of these Canadians still prefer using the term football than the term soccer.

If New Zealand can adopt the term football over soccer, so can we... and I really hope we do too, even if it's unlikely we do before the start of the 2026 World Cup of Football. My opinions presented in this thread aren't satirical (as johnny24 inquired), though, I am a fan of satire!

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by elly63

There were ZERO good points to anyone who isn't a colonialist or anti American. What break do we need from the US aside from the same naive, unlikely arguments raised by the OP.

If the CFL isn't thriving someone should tell the billionaires to stop buying the franchises (because that is who is buying them now). They just had stadium record attendances last week in Regina and Hamilton and are a ratings mainstay for TSN. Winnipeg has had 11 consecutive sellouts of 32,343 while TFC is and the Whitecaps average about 20.9k with 5 CFL teams well ahead of that and one not far off.

Aside from the CFL there are over 30 Canadians on NFL rosters and ZERO in the EPL which is a place (the English soccer system) that has been a terrible place to try and develop Canadian talent.

30 Canadians in the NFL, but how many are all stars?

There's currently 8 Canadian players playing in the big 5 leagues of Europe, and some of them are legitimate star players, like Alphonso Davies and Jonathan David, who are both easily good enough to play in the EPL. You obviously know all this, though, as you've kept us thoroughly updated on the the progress of Canadian players in this thread... and I truly do thank you for that.

However, I think you miss the "big picture" when it comes to what Canada needs to do to become a relevant country in the world of football... or what it will take for true football culture to ever flourish in Canada.

edit: btw, just to be clear, I'm neither a colonialist, nor an anti-American. I just want Canada to be taken seriously by the rest of the footballing world, the vast majority which doesn't call it it football, and have national leagues with systems of relegation and promotion.

Also, as you probably already know, The USL has recently adopted a system of relegation and promotion! So at least some Americans are learning from the rest of the world. Hopefully the CPL will eventually too.

[elly63]

And yet more uninformed, I wish it was like this, childlike takes supported by the usual cartoons.

These takes are the type I saw over 20 years ago and the average Canadian soccer fan has grown out of. Even the CFL disinformation and hate has largely stopped after its zenith when the Argos moved to BMO.

Maybe you remember the auld country fondly, my family took the attitude of it was so great why did we leave it.

You're 20 some years in the past, please leave it there, we have growing to do and we don't need or want foreigners sticking their two pence in (copying auld country). We tried it, didn't work, won't go back.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by elly63

And yet more uninformed, I wish it was like this, childlike takes supported by the usual cartoons.

These takes are the type I saw over 20 years ago and the average Canadian soccer fan has grown out of. Even the CFL disinformation and hate has largely stopped after its zenith when the Argos moved to BMO.

Maybe you remember the auld country fondly, my family took the attitude of it was so great why did we leave it.

You're 20 some years in the past, please leave it there, we have growing to do and we don't need or want foreigners sticking their two pence in (copying auld country). We tried it, didn't work, won't go back.

Whatever you say, Elly, lol.

I don't remember any auld country fondly, as I'm not from one... I was born and raised in Canada.

However, I truly believe that if Canada wants success both for our national mens team and for our professional leagues, we should be emulating the leagues and national teams of Europe and South America, which remain the only two regions that have won the World Cup of Football or the FIFA Club World Cup.

I think the professional game in Canada would be much better off and much more exciting if we followed the European/ South American model, which includes a system for relegation and promotion. Most of the top football leagues around the world have a system of promotion and relegation... the MLS and CPL, are very much outliers without it.

I'm not sure why you're so convinced a system of relegation/promotion would be bad for Canadian football, other than your very weak, myopic argument that the "owners don't wan't it". Yeah, no shit they don't want it.

Pardon me for respecting tradition and success.

[elly63]

I'm going to try and be less insulting as I just realized how frustrated I am seeing takes that we in the Canadian soccer community dealt with and discarded more than 20 years ago being brought up again.

Your none to obvious Anti-American take doesn't mean we have to fall into the arms of Europeans, we can make our own way thank you very much and we have been doing. Made in Canada solutions for made in Canada problems.

These "ideas" almost sound like those kids who think we ought to give Communism another chance because we've never tried real Communism

BTW, that first sentence was awfully similar to ol Blackdog, you guys related?

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by elly63

I'm going to try and be less insulting as I just realized how frustrated I am seeing takes that we in the Canadian soccer community dealt with and discarded more than 20 years ago being brought up again.

Your none to obvious Anti-American take doesn't mean we have to fall into the arms of Europeans, we can make our own way thank you very much and we have been doing. Made in Canada solutions for made in Canada problems.

These "ideas" almost sound like those kids who think we ought to give Communism another chance because we've never tried real Communism

BTW, that first sentence was awfully similar to ol Blackdog, you guys related?

Sounds like people were onto something 20 years ago, lol. Were Canadians seriously arguing that we should stop calling it soccer back then? Or that we need professional leagues with a system of promotion and relegation?

Seriously though, why must you always fixate on me bringing up Europe, when South America and basically the rest of the footballing world hates the term soccer, and have leagues with relegation and promotion. Like, do you seriously not see how much more interesting following professional leagues in Canada would be if we had a system of promotion and relegation one day? (and 30-40 teams across the top two divisions)

My arguments aren't based on embracing the European model, they're about embracing the global model, and global terminology.



As for my first sentence, I had to refrain myself from typing, "whatever you say, old man" since you're calling my opinions childlike... but I took the slightly higher road and let the smily speak for itself.

[jc_yyc_ca]

Originally Posted by elly63

Aside from the CFL there are over 30 Canadians on NFL rosters and ZERO in the EPL which is a place (the English soccer system) that has been a terrible place to try and develop Canadian talent.

You do realize that the EPL is arguably the world's top league? When trying to get into the EPL or other Euro leagues you're competing with literally 100's of millions of players globally. It's not the NFL, where you're only competing against Americans - and not even all Americans - only Americans who play football. Not the Americans who play basketball, baseball, soccer, or Hockey.

Having 8 players play in the big 5 leagues of Europe is actually pretty decent for a country that has never had soccer as a major sport, and a sport that's only recently been picking up.

[elly63]

If you're asking if I realize that the EPL is not made for developing Canadian talent the answer is yes. It's a cutthroat league where competition is high and if you're not playing you're not developing.

Tajon Buchanan found this out at Inter as did the Americans who had players hired by big clubs but they were sitting on the bench and not moving forward.

It is has proven to be far better for Canadians to play regularly in MLS than sit on the bench for a big club in Europe. The key is to strike the right balance. A guy like Tajon has found his proper level.

I'm not sure what you mean by picking up, we had players at big clubs and high participation levels 20 years ago. The unfortunate thing was back then the players were not given the resources our guys have today at the NT. Forrest, Stalteri, Radzinski all played in the EPL, Friend, Occean and McKenna played in the Bundesliga. Yes we have more now but we weren't totally without talent back then and it's been forgotten because they had little help at the NT level, unlike now.

[trueviking]

^ a big difference today is that players are no longer searching for a parent or grandparent that would allow them to play for another country. Even legitimate dual-nationals are choosing Canada. It’s a snowball effect. The Americans saw it 20 years ago. You start winning a bit, especially appearing in a World Cup and your players get exposure and start finding their way to bigger leagues.

No Canadians in big leagues means teams don’t even consider it as a talent source. Once a few show up other teams start looking at Canada. They all follow each other. We are seeing it now. More international friendlies and tournaments pushes the country up the rankings. Players start wanting to join the momentum. Work permits are easier to secure.

It was always a challenge to get the ball rolling in the past and the inertia is strong. The system is designed to keep smaller countries small but once you get there you can stay for a while.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Were Canadians seriously arguing that we should stop calling it soccer back then? Or that we need professional leagues with a system of promotion and relegation?

Yes. It's basically never ending. The way you type this (large volume) of opinion, I'd swear you were one of them.

Elly nailed it in mentioning the same same sort of "it's the world game, we must do everything like elsewhere" is usually combined with a need to put down Canadian football or gridiron football in general, and really peaked around the time the Argos moved to BMO.

IMO: We don't need to copy what anyone else does, we need to do what works here. And looking at every other successful league, CFL/NHL/NFL/MLB, that means fixed franchises. I include the American leagues because, more than almost any other cultural or social institution, North America (well, Canada/USA) really is one sporting market.

We can't adopt a P+R pyramid the same we can't adopt the Aussie "successful sport" model. Both the NRL and AFL were single-city based leagues that then slowly added other cities until you could call them "national" leagues. Can you imagine an NHL with 7 Montreal teams, or a MLB with 9 NYC teams?

I get the desire - it really is, for lack of a better word, romantic for every town to have their team and they all find their level and move up and down. But we don't have the history, culture, or population density for it to work.

It works in other countries because soccer is far and away the dominant sport. North America and Aus have about 4-5 sports where none is truly dominant the way soccer is in most European and LatAm countries.

Looking at the prototypical example, England. Yes, they do it in soccer, but even in their second most popular sport, rugby, they are struggling to sustain P+R in the professional era and a moving slowly towards a closed top league. Because they lack the culture of enough people supporting professional rugby.

The best thing for Canadian soccer is to actually have a professional league, and the only way that's managed to happen is the same way every other professional league on this continent has managed to happen - franchises. IF the CPL ever got to say, 20 teams, once could imagine splitting into 2 leagues of 10, but that would be entirely dependent on there being so much money that relegation didn't hurt the owners. I'm not saying that could never happen, but it's so far from the reality of today that it's hard to say it ever will.

I get that internet forums are the place for expounding on very passionate, niche views, but yours in particular is one of the biggest turnoffs to non-soccer fans from ever becoming so. I don't mind watching individual games of soccer (when they're actually playing and not conning/arguing with the ref), but a significant subset of fans are so precious about the whole thing that it's quite offputting.




In closing - all CFL and soccer fans should just switch to rugby

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

"And looking at every other successful league, CFL/NHL/NFL/MLB"

I'm sorry, but I just don't think those are comparable when it comes to association football (soccer). Literally every country that has won the World Cup of Football have national professional leagues at home with systems of promotion and relegation, not international leagues like the MLS, MLB, NBA, and NHL.

It's never made sense to me to follow the model of the NHL, NFL, or NBA for professional soccer in North America, when a much better model exists for professional football in leagues around the world. Relegation and promotion is part of what makes football leagues outside of North America so much more interesting then professional sports in North America in general, and these promotion and relegation battles help make these leagues more of a national phenomenon. I think North American fans are being robbed of one of the best parts of the game in the MLS and CPL with their fixed franchises. The USL (below the MLS) has recently introduced relegation, and the Mexican league is bringing it back in 2026. Canada and the USA are outliers. I just think Canada should learn from the rest of the world, not follow the American model of fixed franchise, let alone the Americanism of using the term soccer.

Also, I think Canada absolutely has the population density to have 15-20 teams in the CPL one day, along with another 15-20 in the division below with a system of promotion and relegation. We're not talking about huge operating costs here. A CPL team has much lower operating costs than a CFL team, but I don't think it will be that way forever, as the beautiful game is growing quite rapidly in Canada.

As for CFL and soccer fans switching to rugby, maybe But I'd say basketball is the more exciting game than all of them put together, and Canada's actually one of the best basketball countries on earth now.