The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[DyAm00394]

Found this new listing on Loopnet.com

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/61-Prince-Edward-St-Saint-John-NB/37458444/

61 Prince Edward Street containing 5 parcels of land, with redevelopment potential.

"EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
This ±0.61-acre land assembly in Uptown Saint John offers a rare opportunity to shape the future of one of the city’s most walkable and culturally vibrant neighborhoods. Comprising five contiguous parcels—including three vacant lots, a three-storey mixed-use building, and a two-storey office building—the site is ideally positioned for a transformative redevelopment project.

The zoning designation of CM (Commercial Mixed-use) allows for a wide array of permitted uses, including residential, retail, hospitality, medical, and community services. The existing buildings offer strong adaptive reuse potential, particularly the office building at 66–68 Waterloo Street, which could be converted into senior housing, boutique accommodations, or specialized care facilities. The three-storey mixed-use building is well-suited for demolition, unlocking design flexibility across the full site".

[sailor734]

"the office building at 66–68 Waterloo Street, which could be converted into senior housing, boutique accommodations, or specialized care facilities. The three-storey mixed-use building is well-suited for demolition, unlocking design flexibility across the full site".

Most of Waterloo strikes me as being "well suited for demolition"

[bingun]

Price $1,090,877 USD

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by bingun

1,500,119.50 Hudson Bay pesos! Seems pretty ambitious to me.

[bingun]

Waterloo had calmed down somewhat over the winter and spring, but in the last month or two, it has deteriorated back into a war zone. There now appears to be a permanent crowd of dozens outside the church and the new Steepleview apartments when I have driven by. I am concerned about that development, especially if they are still planning to create a daycare.

I noticed that the mayor and some local organizations have sent public letters, although I doubt they will make any difference.

However, construction is continuing on the previously vacant lot that previously housed the tent village and then the shipping containers.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by bingun

Waterloo had calmed down somewhat over the winter and spring, but in the last month or two, it has deteriorated back into a war zone. There now appears to be a permanent crowd of dozens outside the church and the new Steepleview apartments when I have driven by. I am concerned about that development, especially if they are still planning to create a daycare.

I noticed that the mayor and some local organizations have sent public letters, although I doubt they will make any difference.

However, construction is continuing on the previously vacant lot that previously housed the tent village and then the shipping containers.

The city is really in a tough position with this issue. Dealing with what is happening on Waterloo and other areas uptown (mental health, addiction services, social housing, job training, courts and jails) are all provincial responsibilities yet it's the city and it's first responders who are on the front lines day after day.......and it's the mayor and council who take the heat from businesses and residents over unsafe streets and unchecked crime.

On a related note I'm amazed that the Tim Hortons on Waterloo is still open....... and even the one on King St for that matter.

[thefishingnut]

Originally Posted by sailor734

The city is really in a tough position with this issue. Dealing with what is happening on Waterloo and other areas uptown (mental health, addiction services, social housing, job training, courts and jails) are all provincial responsibilities yet it's the city and it's first responders who are on the front lines day after day.......and it's the mayor and council who take the heat from businesses and residents over unsafe streets and unchecked crime.

On a related note I'm amazed that the Tim Hortons on Waterloo is still open....... and even the one on King St for that matter.

The City though has been deferring for some time an approved tent location, the result being that all the tent encampments can't be moved - the rule being they can't be displaced unless there is some where for them to go.

The City though also has the right to lobby the provincial government for services to deal with all those issues. If they are doing so, it is very quietly, and very politely.

My goodness the city so needs a real — disturber as mayor, someone who will stand in front of a microphone and call out the provincial government for its gross negligence on looking after its most vulnerable citizens and get something done.

[adamuptownsj]

The '3.8% green space' number that's been kicking around is a little bizarre. Using self-reported proximity to parks for their other low statistic instead of census numbers and GIS is an odd choice.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-canada-green-space-1.7618041

The map excludes Nature Conservancy lands like the (Boars Head preserve and Split Rock/Black Beach), and 'unofficial parks' like Greenhead/Spruce Lake. They also sometimes count sports fields and sometimes not. The Botanic Gardens count, but not Chown Field.

Also, there's a ton of park land and trails just outside city limits (Loch Alva, the Musquash conservancy lands, Cape Spencer, and Nerapis).

Of course, Councillor Harris thinks we need to turn vacant serviced lots in the south end into 'parkettes' because the densest oldest neighbourhood in the province doesn't have a wilderness in it. Maybe we should clean up King Square, but that's too mean to people who sit there and smoke weed all day I guess.

And a bizarre claim that Waterloo Village is a 40 minute walk from Rockwood-- more like 25 in reality-- and residents 'have to cross a highway' to get there... somehow the pedestrian and Crown Street overpasses are described as walking across Route 1. Lastly, they claim there's no bus service... except they forgot the 20 (and kind of the 23).

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

The '3.8% green space' number that's been kicking around is a little bizarre. Using self-reported proximity to parks for their other low statistic instead of census numbers and GIS is an odd choice.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-canada-green-space-1.7618041

The map excludes Nature Conservancy lands like the (Boars Head preserve and Split Rock/Black Beach), and 'unofficial parks' like Greenhead/Spruce Lake. They also sometimes count sports fields and sometimes not. The Botanic Gardens count, but not Chown Field.

Also, there's a ton of park land and trails just outside city limits (Loch Alva, the Musquash conservancy lands, Cape Spencer, and Nerapis).

Of course, Councillor Harris thinks we need to turn vacant serviced lots in the south end into 'parkettes' because the densest oldest neighbourhood in the province doesn't have a wilderness in it. Maybe we should clean up King Square, but that's too mean to people who sit there and smoke weed all day I guess.

And a bizarre claim that Waterloo Village is a 40 minute walk from Rockwood-- more like 25 in reality-- and residents 'have to cross a highway' to get there... somehow the pedestrian and Crown Street overpasses are described as walking across Route 1. Lastly, they claim there's no bus service... except they forgot the 20 (and kind of the 23).

People are just too lazy to walk. Anywhere in south end you’re a 5 min walk to either King or Queen, let alone Tin Can area

[cdnguys]

Why do people always comment our airport should be closed and not doing well. Air Canada is flying 189 seat Max 8 aircraft, 176 seat A321 on some days and A320 and A319 most days. Clearly there is a demand for seats in and out of city. This is on top of Flair’s larger aircraft to Toronto.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

People are just too lazy to walk. Anywhere in south end you’re a 5 min walk to either King or Queen, let alone Tin Can area

Maybe Tin Can beach should be an urban park along the shore with a couple of 12-+ story apartment buildings behind it.

[cdnguys]

[IMG][/IMG]

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

[IMG][/IMG]

Probably carefully put away for safekeeping with all the painstakingly numbered and preserved stones from the old jail that the city took such great care of.................oh, wait.

[cdnguys]

[IMG][/IMG]

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Why do people always comment our airport should be closed and not doing well. Air Canada is flying 189 seat Max 8 aircraft, 176 seat A321 on some days and A320 and A319 most days. Clearly there is a demand for seats in and out of city. This is on top of Flair’s larger aircraft to Toronto.

Probably just because our airport and its flight options are noticeably worse than Moncton's and Fredericton's? Saying it should be closed, however, is ridiculous, at least without some sort of solution.

Like, I wouldn't be totally opposed YSJ being massively scaled down if we were to get a really affordable and reliable bus service to YFC, or even better, to YFC and YQM. Same thing if we had passenger rail to Moncton, and it was cheaper than taking a cab to the Saint John airport.

Without a really good and affordable solution to get us to at least YFC, however, shutting down the Saint John airport would be beyond stupid.

Though, I do think The Saint John Airport should change its name. Posted this before in the airport thread... but on google flights when you type in Saint John... Saint John is the third option after St. John's, NL and Saint John, VI (which doesn't even have an airport:




Clearly, we all know there's some confusion between the names of these two very similarly named airports, and it's never going to be dealt with without a name change.

As far as I know most of the cruise ship itineraries have Saint John, NB listed as "The Bay of Fundy" on the map... so maybe the best name change, at least in terms of brand recognition and promoting tourism, would something like "Bay of Fundy Airport".

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

The '3.8% green space' number that's been kicking around is a little bizarre. Using self-reported proximity to parks for their other low statistic instead of census numbers and GIS is an odd choice.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-canada-green-space-1.7618041

The map excludes Nature Conservancy lands like the (Boars Head preserve and Split Rock/Black Beach), and 'unofficial parks' like Greenhead/Spruce Lake. They also sometimes count sports fields and sometimes not. The Botanic Gardens count, but not Chown Field.

Also, there's a ton of park land and trails just outside city limits (Loch Alva, the Musquash conservancy lands, Cape Spencer, and Nerapis).

Of course, Councillor Harris thinks we need to turn vacant serviced lots in the south end into 'parkettes' because the densest oldest neighbourhood in the province doesn't have a wilderness in it. Maybe we should clean up King Square, but that's too mean to people who sit there and smoke weed all day I guess.

And a bizarre claim that Waterloo Village is a 40 minute walk from Rockwood-- more like 25 in reality-- and residents 'have to cross a highway' to get there... somehow the pedestrian and Crown Street overpasses are described as walking across Route 1. Lastly, they claim there's no bus service... except they forgot the 20 (and kind of the 23).

This 3.8% figure definitely seems like a juked stat considering how much physically larger Saint John is compared to Moncton and Fredericton. Also, does Bayshore Beach and other beaches not shaded green on here not count as a green space because they're mostly sand and rocks? The seaside trail on the West Side is definitely a greenspace, and I don't see it listed here other than the part that goes through Seaside Park.

Harris's parkettes idea is just silly... we need more ambitious infill developments on those vacant, serviced lots, not a bunch of tiny little parks. Talk about a walking, talking contradiction, but I expect nothing less from him.

Don't get me wrong, though, I do think we have a lot room for improvement in making our green spaces more accessible, desirable places to visit. Moreover, there's a lot of opportunities to create new parks and green spaces. However, I've never felt like there's not enough natural areas to visit in and around Saint John, even if you're relying on walking, bicycling, or taking the bus.

All this being said, I think Saint John can actually use this "bad press" to its advantage. Saint John can use this "last in green space" statistic to help bolster the case for why Saint John deserves the National Urban Park more than Moncton and Fredericton does.

[JakeNB]

It surprised me that the new host of Information Morning wrote that sloppy hit piece on the City. Previous hosts have expressed their love for the City and have been loved in return-although they have not been afraid to take on tough issues. Let’s hope she moves on to greener pastures soon.

[sailor734]

I think a difference with Saint John is it's geographic size and relatively sparse population. There is a lot of vacant land that, why not officially designated as "park", often gets used as such by neighbourhood residents.

As to the CBC story, I see it as yet another attempt by an attention seeking councilor to create an issue to get some press.

[bingun]

Province approves industrial park expansion in Saint John despite community concerns

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-bruns...ssment-saint-john-newbrunswick-1.7619033

I am not sure what took CBC so long to report on this and why they chose Labour Day to post their article, but here it is. Not much of note, except the below.

About 8 keen expressions of interest

Many concerns stem from not knowing what will be developed at the site.

MacKinnon said potential developments can't be revealed due to non-disclosure agreements. He said the industrial park group is managing about eight expressions of interest "that are very keenly interested."

MacKinnon previously said there is potential for a data centre and a green manufacturing plant. Interest in those developments still exists and is "significant," he said.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I think a difference with Saint John is it's geographic size and relatively sparse population. There is a lot of vacant land that, why not officially designated as "park", often gets used as such by neighbourhood residents.

As to the CBC story, I see it as yet another attempt by an attention seeking councilor to create an issue to get some press.

Sure, but we might as well go with it and use to lobby for us getting the national urban park over Moncton and Fredericton since our city clear has the much bigger need.

• Video Link

Carney plans for Canada to build 10 new national park, 10 new marine conservations areas, and 15 new national urban parks.

If there's only 13 provinces/territories of Canada, and New Brunswick is the third least populous province, we're not going to get more than one park.

The city should already be working on their pitch for why Rockwood Park should be chosen as the location for New Brunswick's first national urban park... in Canada's first city. If I was part of this campaign, I'd also throw in the idea that all of Canada's 15 new, national urban parks should have an outdoor hockey rink with proper refrigeration technology (unlike what we got with the sub-par chiller in the Uptown skating oval).

I really don't think it's a stretch to say that Saint John has far more scenic geography than either Moncton or Fredericton. Plus, it also helps that Rockwood is already part of the Stonehammer UNESCO Global Geopark, the only UNESCO Geopark in New Brunswick, and only one of five in all of Canada.

Still, the federal goverbment isn't just going to hand the first national urban park to Saint John on a silver platter... there's still going to be politics at play.

Instead of councillor Harris trying to do something positive like launch the first campaign for a new, national urban park here in Saint John, he's pitching some very low level ideas, that seem to directly contradict his supposed "housing comes first" mantra. I think the reason he is contradicting his housing first ideals here is that he can't take credit for getting a 6 or 15 storey apartment built on a vacant lot, but he can take credit for turning some vacant lots into "micro parks" on the cheap. 🙄

Saint John still has lot of room for improvement when it comes to parks and recreation, and I think we should avoid being to praiseful of the current state of things. Looking at that map, Millidgeville is especially hurting for parks... and looking at the SNB property assessment tool... Millidgeville and the rest of Saint John's portion of the Kennebecasis Valley is chalk full of vacant land, some of which could be transformed into parkland and some of which could be transformed into residential. I still think Saint John's portion of the Kennebecasis Valley might be the best place to build some high rise condos in the whole region, literally surrounding by green space.



No green space, my —!