King Edward Avenue Renewal

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jcollins

I thought they'd done all of the new street scaping between Rideau and Sussex already? Wouldn't reconfiguring the lanes mean they would have to redo all they work they've already done. Like if they did lane reductions?

I drove by there on the weekend and although some of it is done, there is still a lot of work to do and much of the streetscaping and lane configurations look "temporary" (chipped jersey barriers, etc.).

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by jcollins

I thought they'd done all of the new street scaping between Rideau and Sussex already? Wouldn't reconfiguring the lanes mean they would have to redo all they work they've already done. Like if they did lane reductions?

Yep. That's why Councilor Bedard asked for this study years ago. The construction was in progress and the road was down to just two lanes in each direction (and sometimes less). He suggested that it would be a good time to monitor (count) the traffic on King Edward and surrounding roads to find out what would happen if King Edward were permanently narrowed to four lanes.

Alas, Staff was too busy to get around to doing anything about the study until after the roadway was re-constructed. Now they are relying on traffic modelling. And yes, if anything were to change now, the millions spent on the road-works would be lost.

Of course, if the study had been done when it was asked for, the plans could have been adjusted, if needed, before any pavement was laid. Even when some-one tries to plan ahead, Staff seem to resist. Their King Edward planning was already finished so it couldn't possibly be modified. It had to be done according to the plan - the Council Approved Plan!

It is the same type of attitude that Staff have displayed with regard to transit 'planning': The train MUST go along the O-Train Corridor because that is what we had previously planned; the LRT MUST follow the Transitway because that is what we previously planned......

Staff is crammed into such tiny boxes that there is no room for actually thinking. They prepare a bare minimum, single facited 'plan' which Council approves; because there are no other options presented. Then things are 'etched in stone' and it becomes a must-do, Council Approved Plan with no room for change. I think I would fall off my chair if I ever heard a Councillor ask Staff "What are some other [realistic] options?" or "What else could we be doing at the same time?" (Of course, these are questions that Staff should be asking themselves!)

[McC]

Gee Randall, why don't you tell us what you really think

Transportation committee on road to doing nothing

Lowertown residents let down by councillor, staff

By Randall Denley, The Ottawa CitizenApril 6, 2011



Ottawa Citizen columnist Randall DenleyOTTAWA — Watching the city’s transportation committee Wednesday, it was easy to forget that this is the 21st century.

In fact, one would have to go back to the 1960s to find the last time when politicians thought the car was king, inner city blight was acceptable and communities didn’t matter.

The issue at hand was fixing the six-lane traffic sewer we call King Edward Avenue by narrowing it to four lanes, creating at least a hope that this once-great street could be livable again.

It’s something people in Lowertown have been seeking for 25 years, and they came armed with a compelling case that was supported by the city’s own engineering consultants.

Yet councillors on the transportation committee rejected any action for at least a decade, choosing cars over people in a decision that would cause one to wonder if these politicians have any human values at all.

King Edward Avenue between Rideau Street and the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge is a six-lane stub of what was to be a freeway all the way to the Queensway.

That idea was rejected in the 1970s, and the core has paid the price ever since as big trucks wind their way through the downtown.

One would have to question the utility of a six-lane road that connects a four-lane bridge to a four-lane road, but city transportation engineers love it.

So much so that the city just spent about $50 million on a complete redo of the road.

While this money was being “invested,” the city was also spending $175,000 on a study of whether the road should be narrowed to four lanes, something people in Lowertown have been seeking for years.

Imagine how awkward it must have been for city staff when a respected independent consulting firm concluded that the four-lane version of the road would have minimal impact on traffic and transit and that reducing the road’s width was just the sort of thing called for by the city’s major urban policies.

About the worst effects the consultants could find were that empty buses heading for Rideau Street could be delayed by 30 seconds, or that drivers could spend an extra minute and a half to travel this part of King Edward. The consultants were able to determine this with some certainty because King Edward was narrowed to four lanes for an extensive period of time during construction.

Compare that to the fact that five people have been killed and 67 injured in traffic accidents in this area in just the past five years. Compare that to the fact that the street is so unlivable that buildings have been boarded up, even though the surrounding area is a condo hotbed.

The community had many fine arguments to make, but unfortunately none of them were put forward by their councillor, Matthieu Fleury. The councillor was more persuaded by a business association concerned about traffic in the ByWard Market and by the arguments of city staff who sure weren’t going to admit their shiny new road was a mistake, no matter what their consultants said.

The rookie councillor failed to understand that his job is to champion his community and its concerns, especially when those concerns are put forward by a well-organized group that has the backing of three major community associations. Even if a councillor has his own doubts about the community’s arguments, he needs to make sure that his colleagues understand them. Instead, Fleury used his time to scratch for reasons to support his own point of view.

City staff ought to be embarrassed by the recommendation they put in front of the committee. It contradicts the high-minded urban policies they have been trumpeting for years. It was particularly ironic that the poor chap with the job of selling it has the title of manager of sustainability.

In the end, staff couldn’t find a way around the fact that keeping King Edward at six lanes contradicts everything they are trying to accomplish downtown. To square the circle, they proposed reducing it to four lanes, but only after transit use rises to an unlikely level and the mythical new interprovincial bridge is opened. If everything went as quickly as possible, that would be a decade from now. The only thing standing in its way is a ton of bureaucracy, disagreement on the location and the money to build the bridge.

The most disturbing part of this whole discussion was that most on the transportation committee seemed to have only the foggiest idea of what this issue was about. Their staff gave them a choice between action in the far distant future and doing nothing. They didn’t see a problem with that.

The real goal on King Edward should be restoring the street to something that looks like it belongs in Ottawa, not Detroit. Narrowing the road is a necessary first step. Not in a decade, now.

Instead, councillors chose traffic movement over people. This is not how you build a city.

[email protected]

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen




Ottawa Citizen columnist Randall Denley

[rocketphish]

King Edward Avenue redevelopment encouraged

By Derek Spalding, OTTAWA CITIZEN January 22, 2014 3:00 PM

OTTAWA — City councillors on Wednesday moved ahead with plans to transform a portion of King Edward Avenue into a more livable street.

The politicians gave a traditional main-street designation to a stretch of the busy thoroughfare between Rideau and Bruyere streets in hopes that more flexibility in what can be built there will make the popular truck route more welcoming.

Councillors are hoping to spur more mixed use development, with larger buildings replacing the existing low row houses.

In Tuesday’s decision, council also approved rezoning of a property on nearby St. Patrick Street, allowing for the construction of a new nine-storey, 98-unit hotel.

When this part of the rezoning was discussed at planning committee in December, critics argued the hotel, expected to be much higher than any other building around it, is actually a far cry from traditional main-street zoning, which is typically capped at six storeys.

Several signs of improvement for King Edward are emerging. In addition to the reconstruction of the Nouvelle-Scene theatre and Claridge planning a condo complex at the Rideau Street intersection, there is now talk the city will seriously consider building a tunnel for truck traffic heading in and out of Quebec.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/busines...253/story.html

[Marcus CLS]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

King Edward Avenue redevelopment encouraged

By Derek Spalding, OTTAWA CITIZEN January 22, 2014 3:00 PM

OTTAWA — City councillors on Wednesday moved ahead with plans to transform a portion of King Edward Avenue into a more livable street.

The politicians gave a traditional main-street designation to a stretch of the busy thoroughfare between Rideau and Bruyere streets in hopes that more flexibility in what can be built there will make the popular truck route more welcoming.

Councillors are hoping to spur more mixed use development, with larger buildings replacing the existing low row houses.

In Tuesday’s decision, council also approved rezoning of a property on nearby St. Patrick Street, allowing for the construction of a new nine-storey, 98-unit hotel.

When this part of the rezoning was discussed at planning committee in December, critics argued the hotel, expected to be much higher than any other building around it, is actually a far cry from traditional main-street zoning, which is typically capped at six storeys.

Several signs of improvement for King Edward are emerging. In addition to the reconstruction of the Nouvelle-Scene theatre and Claridge planning a condo complex at the Rideau Street intersection, there is now talk the city will seriously consider building a tunnel for truck traffic heading in and out of Quebec.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/busines...253/story.html

I was all for the Interprovincial bridge but since the Ontario Liberal Gov't chickened out I think the King Edward ETT (Electronic Toll Tunnel) has a nice ring to it. The tunnel should be dumped on the province under MTO control as the Queensway is but make sure Ottawa gets a deal for say 50% of the toll fees to cover the costs of renewing the surface King Edward to what it should be after the trucks are gone plus any other things we can spend the toll fees on. My thoughts re Ottawa getting Toll fees may not be realistic or valid but the Citizens of Ottawa especially Lowertown should get something in return for all the BS truck traffic they have had to put up with all these years.

[S-Man]

I was all for the Interprovincial bridge but since the Ontario Liberal Gov't chickened out I think the King Edward ETT (Electronic Toll Tunnel) has a nice ring to it. The tunnel should be dumped on the province under MTO control as the Queensway is but make sure Ottawa gets a deal for say 50% of the toll fees to cover the costs of renewing the surface King Edward to what it should be after the trucks are gone plus any other things we can spend the toll fees on. My thoughts re Ottawa getting Toll fees may not be realistic or valid but the Citizens of Ottawa especially Lowertown should get something in return for all the BS truck traffic they have had to put up with all these years.

And I want a 40-ounce bottle of Glenfiddich delivered to my back door each week....

That said, eliminating the bridge was not a terrific way of eliminating the problem of needing a conveyance across the river (if that was the genius logic at work at the time - I'm inclined to think the Province of Toronto actually just wanted that project off the table to free up even more money for voteworthy GTA projects).

Call me a cynic, but based on the past FORTY YEARS plus, I don't expect to see much in the way of reparations for Lowertown residents, or a King Edward solution.

[rocketphish]

August 23, 2013
from: southfacing

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

August 23, 2013
from: southfacing

The brick rowhouses on the right at Clarence have been demolished, save for the one building on the other corner.

[TMA-1]

When I shot the crane and hole that's off camera right I forgot to check if the other buildings were the ones I saw being knocked over couple of weeks ago. It may be that they're still there and I was a couple of blocks off.

k edward blot-no-more 3845 by southfacing, on Flickr

Originally Posted by defishel

The brick rowhouses on the right at Clarence have been demolished, save for the one building on the other corner.

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by TMA-1

When I shot the crane and hole that's off camera right I forgot to check if the other buildings were the ones I saw being knocked over couple of weeks ago. It may be that they're still there and I was a couple of blocks off.

k edward blot-no-more 3845 by southfacing, on Flickr

Nope, you were right the first time. I went by yesterday to explore and noticed that they were completely gone. The one beside the Hydro Station is for the Théâtre La Nouvelle Scène that is going up. They demolished their old building last summer and are now building the new one.

They belonged to Lauzon and weren't in good shape. I shot this photo last summer, but you can see a bit of the back wall collapsed and their balconies are missing.


King Edward by Shel DeF on Flickr

[TMA-1]

Of course, there was a street blocked off at the corner and there isn't a street at the theatre!

CWC

Originally Posted by defishel

Nope, you were right the first time. I went by yesterday to explore and noticed that they were completely gone. The one beside the Hydro Station is for the Théâtre La Nouvelle Scène that is going up. They demolished their old building last summer and are now building the new one.

They belonged to Lauzon and weren't in good shape. I shot this photo last summer, but you can see a bit of the back wall collapsed and their balconies are missing.


King Edward by Shel DeF on Flickr

[Richard Eade]

Bringing this thread back from oblivion because it seems more appropriate for this than the Alexandria Bridge Replacement thread.

I put out a brief idea about getting traffic out of the By Ward Market and, particularly, off King Edward Avenue.
Here is a slightly more detailed image of that idea:



It requires about 700 metres of new 4-lane roadway, plus connections and MUPs. The majority of which can be built without disturbing current traffic patterns. All of the new roadway can be at grade, or slightly above grade so that pedestrian underpasses can be added. In the diagram, I have kept the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge’s ‘tail’ elevated for a bit, so that it doesn’t become a roller-coaster. After passing over the MUP ‘culvert’, it drops to grade so that it can intersect with St. Patrick. There is no need to tunnel anything. Just make it relatively easy for active transportation to cross it. I have a crosswalk where it meets St. Patrick, a MUP ‘culvert’ near the middle, and the Union Lay-up at the other end. The greenspace on both sides of the roadway should be usable.

The idea makes use of the existing ‘Union Lay-up’ (which the STO currently uses for their buses) as the extension of a narrowed King Edward. I have placed a second roundabout on King Edward, south of the underpass, so that the ramps can be used for either north-bound or south-bound traffic. This also frees up a bunch of parkland.

Forsey Street disappears, and Bruyere Street gets cut off by the new road. I have moved the tennis courts to the Bruyere-side of the big road, so they are not lost. I have added a parking lot for those tennis courts – but that would not be a necessity.

De La Salle HS gets additional buffer space out front, and the Chinese Embassy gets a better entrance, from an intersection.

I have removed the rest of the roundabouts south, along King Edward. They were an unnecessary expense at this point.

Something to remember: Since the future Alexandra Bridge SHOULD NOT HAVE CAR TRAFFIC, St. Patrick will probably be much less busy, without the cut-through traffic, heading to/from the bridge.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Bringing this thread back from oblivion because it seems more appropriate for this than the Alexandria Bridge Replacement thread.

I put out a brief idea about getting traffic out of the By Ward Market and, particularly, off King Edward Avenue.
Here is a slightly more detailed image of that idea:



It requires about 700 metres of new 4-lane roadway, plus connections and MUPs. The majority of which can be built without disturbing current traffic patterns. All of the new roadway can be at grade, or slightly above grade so that pedestrian underpasses can be added. In the diagram, I have kept the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge’s ‘tail’ elevated for a bit, so that it doesn’t become a roller-coaster. After passing over the MUP ‘culvert’, it drops to grade so that it can intersect with St. Patrick. There is no need to tunnel anything. Just make it relatively easy for active transportation to cross it. I have a crosswalk where it meets St. Patrick, a MUP ‘culvert’ near the middle, and the Union Lay-up at the other end. The greenspace on both sides of the roadway should be usable.

The idea makes use of the existing ‘Union Lay-up’ (which the STO currently uses for their buses) as the extension of a narrowed King Edward. I have placed a second roundabout on King Edward, south of the underpass, so that the ramps can be used for either north-bound or south-bound traffic. This also frees up a bunch of parkland.

Forsey Street disappears, and Bruyere Street gets cut off by the new road. I have moved the tennis courts to the Bruyere-side of the big road, so they are not lost. I have added a parking lot for those tennis courts – but that would not be a necessity.

De La Salle HS gets additional buffer space out front, and the Chinese Embassy gets a better entrance, from an intersection.

I have removed the rest of the roundabouts south, along King Edward. They were an unnecessary expense at this point.

Something to remember: Since the future Alexandra Bridge SHOULD NOT HAVE CAR TRAFFIC, St. Patrick will probably be much less busy, without the cut-through traffic, heading to/from the bridge.

Why 4 lanes rather than 2? You could put it on piers out in the river and save the park completely.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Bringing this thread back from oblivion because it seems more appropriate for this than the Alexandria Bridge Replacement thread.

I put out a brief idea about getting traffic out of the By Ward Market and, particularly, off King Edward Avenue.
Here is a slightly more detailed image of that idea:

[It requires about 700 metres of new 4-lane roadway, plus connections and MUPs. The majority of which can be built without disturbing current traffic patterns. All of the new roadway can be at grade, or slightly above grade so that pedestrian underpasses can be added. In the diagram, I have kept the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge’s ‘tail’ elevated for a bit, so that it doesn’t become a roller-coaster. After passing over the MUP ‘culvert’, it drops to grade so that it can intersect with St. Patrick. There is no need to tunnel anything. Just make it relatively easy for active transportation to cross it. I have a crosswalk where it meets St. Patrick, a MUP ‘culvert’ near the middle, and the Union Lay-up at the other end. The greenspace on both sides of the roadway should be usable.

Forsey Street disappears, and Bruyere Street gets cut off by the new road. I have moved the tennis courts to the Bruyere-side of the big road, so they are not lost. I have added a parking lot for those tennis courts – but that would not be a necessity.


Something to remember: Since the future Alexandra Bridge SHOULD NOT HAVE CAR TRAFFIC, St. Patrick will probably be much less busy, without the cut-through traffic, heading to/from the bridge.

All this does is divert traffic who are currently making at right turn off St. Patrick onto King Edward. The traffic south of there will be unaffected or actually increased as the light will be more favorable to continuing. For what you get it seems hugely expensive. Unless you mean to make it the only entrance to the bridge? That would require more modifications on Vanier Parkway and or Beechwood. Perhaps putting it in a trench between Montreal and Conventry making it a near freeway. None of that seems like something that is getting approved in Ottawa in 2024 though.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Something to remember: Since the future Alexandra Bridge SHOULD NOT HAVE CAR TRAFFIC, St. Patrick will probably be much less busy, without the cut-through traffic, heading to/from the bridge.

Overall, this is a good plan. Fully agree, the future of Alexandra should not include cars, and this plan should also come with a new Kettle Island Bridge to remove nearly all trucks from Lowertown.

[J.OT13]

Hoping the Kettle Island Bridge allows us to restore King Edward to its former glory, or at least something resembling what it was, maybe 4 lanes of traffic (down from eight in some spots), cycle tracks and a median even half of what it was with one row of trees would be a major improvement to what we have today.

• Video Link

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Hoping the Kettle Island Bridge allows us to restore King Edward to its former glory, or at least something resembling what it was, maybe 4 lanes of traffic (down from eight in some spots), cycle tracks and a median even half of what it was with one row of trees would be a major improvement to what we have today.

There is no suggestion anything of the sort would happen. Hope isn't really a strategy. So strange how many support the new bridge claiming it will solve traffic problems and re-route trucks but every other road project will only induce demand.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

There is no suggestion anything of the sort would happen. Hope isn't really a strategy. So strange how many support the new bridge claiming it will solve traffic problems and re-route trucks but every other road project will only induce demand.

We induce demand by adding lanes. What I'm proposing (and sure, haven't heard any official channels proposing the same outside of the NCC's tram loop dream) is to redistribute lanes. Any number of lanes added to Kettle should be removed Downtown. So if it's 4 lanes, the two Alexandra lanes should be removed from car use (replaced with trams) and two lanes can be removed from the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge.

This new bridge also adds new active transportation and transit connections.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

There is no suggestion anything of the sort would happen. Hope isn't really a strategy. So strange how many support the new bridge claiming it will solve traffic problems and re-route trucks but every other road project will only induce demand.

There is an approved Council direction that King Edward should be narrowed to 4 lanes after a new crossing is built: https://app06.ottawa.ca/calendar/ott...g%20Edward.htm

[lrt's friend]

This is a growing city and we need to build accordingly. Induced demand is a bad excuse for doing nothing and not solving a problem that we created in the 1960s. As it stands, King Edward is an enormous scar in our downtown.

We need to divert unnecessary traffic out of downtown and turn King Edward into a grand Boulevard that is people friendly.

At the same time, a new east end bridge must not be another Macdonald-Cartier. It needs to be welcoming to all users and neighbours.

It is possible to make this a net positive for Ottawa.