Saint John and St. John's... Confusing?

[dmuzika]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

pushing those two tiny towns aside, you do see the fundamental differences between the other examples you gave? Portland and Portland are on two separate oceans, and Vancouver and Vancouver are in two separate countries.

It might not be confusing to you because you lived in both cities. As for people who've lived in neither, or never been east of Quebec... Saint John, NB and St. John's, NL can definitely be quite confusing.

It wasn't that long ago that St. John's and Saint John were the second and third largest cities in Atlantic Canada. It's confusing to others whether you want to admit it or not.

I can understand the possible confusion of the two Vancouvers because they're relatively close to one another - they're both a 3 hour drive from Seattle on I-5 but in opposite directions. At least the twin Niagara Falls' or Sault Ste Maries are separated by a river (and an international border), but they're still more-or-less in the same area.

In 2003, there was some excitement at the Canada-US border (only a year and a couple months removed from 9/11) when a US citizen headed for the wrong Vancouver and failed to clean out her vehicle, https://www.cbsnews.com/news/grenade-scare-closes-us-border/. There also have been periodic discussions around renaming Vancouver, WA to Fort Vancouver to better differentiate the city.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

While looking at some past Canadian election results, I noticed that the 1979, 1980, and 1984 maps on Wikipedia all have Saint John incorrectly labelled as St. John's.

There may be more, but I didn't look at all of them to find out.

So yes, even huge Canadian geography nerds that make the Wikipedia election maps can get the two SJ's very similar names mixed up.

I do like this new style map that this user has made, though! I wonder if they will ever catch this mistake... or if they're on this forum.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

We usually have the closed caption activated while watching supper hour news on tv. This past week something happened in St. John. Either 's or ain was missing from the cc.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

• Video Link

Nice to see even Pierre Poilievre is aware of, and made sure to make the distinction between Saint John, New Brunswick & St. John's, Newfoundland

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Courtesy Reddit

While, I've long advocated for the Saint John, NB to embrace regional amalgamation under a new name such as the Fundy or Wolastoq Regionional Municipality, and continue to believe it would fundamentally improve the situation here in the Saint John Region and fundamentally lessen the "Saint John/ St. John's confusion".

The Saint John Airport could change its Airport name to Fundy or Wolastoq Regional (or even better International) Airport, before comprehensive regional amalgamation were to occur. The Airport could then decide to retain the YSJ airport code, or adopt a new one like YWT or ... YFU

I think keeping the YSJ airport code would be totally fine under either Fundy or Wolastoq re-branding, and I think most locals would like to keep the YSJ airport code... myself included, because even if the Saint John Region did amalgamate under a new name one day, "SJ" isn't going to be wiped off the map.

I think enough's enough when it comes to the confusion between these two airports. St. John's had the name first, and they have the far busier airport.

TL;DR: The Saint John Airport should change its name, yesterday.

[Nouvellecosse]

That's hilarious. St. John's isn't even that much bigger. You'd think it was a Sydney or London situation or something.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

That's hilarious. St. John's isn't even that much bigger. You'd think it was a Sydney or London situation or something.

Imo, that's exactly what makes the situation so confusing.

Saint John and St. John's are two of the oldest settlements on Canada's East Coast, but neither city's metro area is anywhere near even 500k, which makes them blips on most people's "radars". St. John's, NL, however, is much more noticeable on maps than Saint John, NB, due to it being the capital along with its geographic isolation.


Both cities are known for their maritime industries, both cities have claims to being the oldest cities in Canada, and depending on the specifics of the definition, one could make a case for either city to be considered "older".

Also, not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but St. John's Newspaper is called the Telegram, while Saint John's Newspaper is called the Telegraph Journal. Pretty similar

but back to the airport side of things:


My apologies to SSPers from down under for giving Australia the "Hawaii treatment" on the map. 😅

Someone would have to be incredibly unobservant and careless to book a flight to Sydney, Australia or London, England if the intended destination were their Canadian namesakes in Nova Scotia and Ontario or vice versa.

One would still have to be especially unobservant and careless to book a flight to Saint John instead of St. John's or vice versa, but I think it's obvious why this mistake probably happens a lot more on average, especially among non Canadian flyers.

While The Saint John Airport might "benefit" more from these mistakenly booked trips than the St. John's Airport does... that's not exactly a good reason to keep the name of Saint John's airport unchanged. I think the similarity of the two airport's names is clearly a more distinct branding challenge for the Saint John Airport and the Saint John Region as a whole from a tourism and identity standpoint than it is for the St. John's Airport and St. John's Regions.

Changing YSJ's name to something more distinct, like Bay of Fundy or Wolastoq Airport could be quite a significant step forward in terms of trying lessen the confusion between Saint John, NB and St. John's, NL... and a logical first step, considering how central Airports are when it comes to tourism or a city's identity for that matter.

I think it would be better for my city to change the name of our airport in efforts to lessen the instances of mistaken identity between Saint John and St. John's when it comes to our city's airports. I've always felt this is an issue that many Saint Johners don't have on their radars, or even consider an issue at all. Personally, I think clearly an issue... otherwise, I never would have made this thread.

Though, I'm not sure myself which new name would be better.. Bay of Fundy Airport, or Wolastoq Airport? Or perhaps, something else? 🤔 💭 💡

Also, INB4 Ozabald brings up "Welsford International" lol

[Architype]

There is also Fort St. John, and St Johns Street in Port Moody (no apostrophe). Note that some references use the period after "St" and some don't, depending where you look. The street in Port Moody can be found under both "Saint", and "St", but the street signs say "St".

[Architype]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

...

While, I've long advocated for the Saint John, NB to embrace regional amalgamation under a new name such as the Fundy or Wolastoq Regionional Municipality, and continue to believe it would fundamentally improve the situation here in the Saint John Region and fundamentally lessen the "Saint John/ St. John's confusion".

...

I think Fundy would be better than another name that's confusing to pronounce (Wool-a-stock"?). Also Fundy can have more memes, "Fundy is fun".

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Architype

There is also Fort St. John, and St Johns Street in Port Moody (no apostrophe). Note that some references use the period after "St" and some don't, depending where you look. The street in Port Moody can be found under both "Saint", and "St", but the street signs say "St".

Here's a good one here regarding St. vs St on the West Side of Saint John:



Imagine the utter chaos someone could inflict with just a few strategically placed apostrophes...

I'm surprised locals haven't pointed out this outrageous spelling mistake to the city.

I'll never not find it amusing how bent out of shape Saint Johners get when some random person online has the audacity to abbreviate the city's name as "St. John", while streets like "St. John St" still exist, and many major map providers like Apple and Google inconsistently use St. John and Saint John in their maps of the city:

Google Maps:

Apple Maps:


Personally, I find two of the biggest tech companies in the world making spelling mistakes far more "outrageous" than individual people making a post online looking to visit or ask a question about our city. 🤦

Yet, anytime someone from outside of Saint John does make that spelling "mistake" online, they are attacked for the egregious, disrespectful error in their ways... which I find both hilarious, and also a bit troubling, lol.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Architype

I think Fundy would be better than another name that's confusing to pronounce (Wool-a-stock"?). Also Fundy can have more memes, "Fundy is fun".

The Bay of Fundy also has far more widespread name recognition and notoriety than the Wolastoqey name for the "Saint John River".

Many locals insist that the river must be spelt as the St. John River and not the Saint John River... in order to avoid confusion.

[trueviking]

I have always remembered it because St. John's has an abbreviation and an apostrophe which feels more casual....i think of Newfies as more laid back and casual people than people from New Brunswick.

I do wish the CFL would go back to having two teams named Roughriders though.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Courtesy Reddit

While, I've long advocated for the Saint John, NB to embrace regional amalgamation under a new name such as the Fundy or Wolastoq Regionional Municipality, and continue to believe it would fundamentally improve the situation here in the Saint John Region and fundamentally lessen the "Saint John/ St. John's confusion".

The Saint John Airport could change its Airport name to Fundy or Wolastoq Regional (or even better International) Airport, before comprehensive regional amalgamation were to occur. The Airport could then decide to retain the YSJ airport code, or adopt a new one like YWT or ... YFU

I think keeping the YSJ airport code would be totally fine under either Fundy or Wolastoq re-branding, and I think most locals would like to keep the YSJ airport code... myself included, because even if the Saint John Region did amalgamate under a new name one day, "SJ" isn't going to be wiped off the map.

I think enough's enough when it comes to the confusion between these two airports. St. John's had the name first, and they have the far busier airport.

TL;DR: The Saint John Airport should change its name, yesterday.

This is not "confusion". The settings of the app are listing abbreviations first; before the full spelling of the abbreviated word.

Now, removing Saint John from the name of its airport to some regional name such as Fundy or Wolastoq, results in a loss of identify for the city. Without "Googling It", tell me where these geographically regionals named airports are located:
- Northwest Arkansas National Airport
- Southwest Florida International Airport
- Capital Regional International Airport
- Piedmont Triad International Airport
- East Midlands Airport

Saint John should be kept as part of a rebrand (ie: Saint John - Fundy). And as an FYI, YWT is already in use as the identifier for the navigational aid for Waterloo Int'l Airport (YKF).

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

This is not "confusion". The settings of the app are listing abbreviations first; before the full spelling of the abbreviated word.

Now, removing Saint John from the name of its airport to some regional name such as Fundy or Wolastoq, results in a loss of identify for the city.

[...]

Saint John should be kept as part of a rebrand (ie: Saint John - Fundy).

If it's not confusion what is it? This screenshot is from Google Flights and it literally has Saint John, VI (with no airport) listed ahead of Saint John, Nb

As for Saint John losing its identity by changing the name of the airport...(which I don't think it would), I did I suggest that the newly named airport retain the YSJ airport code, which many people use when referring to SJ on social media. So hardly a loss of identity.

"Bay of Fundy Airport" would probably be the best choice in terms of branding for tourism purposes... the Bay of Fundy is world famous, while Saint John, NB is not. Did you know that most of the cruise ships itineraries have Saint John, NB listed as "Bay of Fundy"? It bugs some locals, but I think it's smart. If the cruise ships didn't refer to SJ as the "Bay of Fundy" on the itinerary and instead referred to it as Saint John, I think many people's friends would think they took a cruise to Newfoundland and not New Brunswick.



Norwegian Aqua and Disney Magic visit the Bay of Fundy.

If the cruise ship industry thinks the Bay of Fundy branding is more marketable than "Saint John", maybe the airport should follow suit?

I wouldn't be opposed to a rebranding along the lines of Bay of Fundy Airport with (Saint John) in brackets, but I really don't think not having Saint John in the official airport name would result in a loss of identity for the city.

Rebranding as Saint John-Fundy Airport; however, seems like way too much effort for only a slightly different name... much like the name change from St. John to Saint John was wayyyy too much effort for only a slightly different name, when they could have went with something truly unique and differentiating instead. Changing the name to Bay of Fundy—Saint John Airport would still be a huge improvement to the current situation, but keeping "Saint John" out of the airport name entirely would help differentiate it from the St. John's airport, which is still a problem you still don't want to admit exists, even though there's countless stories of people getting the two cities missed up, including a group of Hondurans who missed a flight to St. John's to see a World Cup qualifying match, because their travel agent booked them flights to Saint John instead. <- That thread on reddit is really full of some pretty funny and unfortunate stories about people confusing the two names of the city, and like 60% or more of the stories have to do with the airport.


Fortunately, there exists a golden opportunity for a new, regional name for Canada's oldest Municipality, which is often confused with St. John's, Newfoundland... and that opportunity is regional amalgamation.

"Wolastoq Regional Municipality" would be one of the better naming options for regional municipality centered upon Saint John. Such a development wouldn't wipe Saint John, Rothesay, or Quispamsis, etc off the map, as they would be the constituent communities of this regional municipality... however, a new name for the RM would help greatly lessen the confusion between Saint John and St. John's, especially once the airport is renamed. ✈️

Still, I think "Bay of Fundy Airport" is a better name than Wolastoq Airport, at least for branding and tourism purposes, since the Bay of Fundy has global notoriety, while the Wolastoq does not. Nonetheless, Wolastoq is a decidedly more local name, and would make the better, more locational name for a regional municipality composed of the communities along the lower Saint John (Wolastoq) and Kennebecasis River Valleys... should the province of New Brunswick ever discover the courage to do the right thing.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by trueviking

I have always remembered it because St. John's has an abbreviation and an apostrophe which feels more casual....i think of Newfies as more laid back and casual people than people from New Brunswick.

I do wish the CFL would go back to having two teams named Roughriders though.

When my dad moved to Winnipeg in the 70's from Saint John, NB, many locals referred to him as a newfie lol

I've been here almost a decade now, and I still have friends and family from out west that ask "how are things in St. John's?" or even "how's it going in Newfoundland?".

Some of them literally do it just to bug me, while others, they just couldn't care less to learn the difference... and I honestly don't blame them. lol