Canadian Airport Thread II

[DavidK93]

I’ve traveled through YYC a few times for connections, I don’t do it very often as we have plenty of direct flights from Vancouver, but the times I’ve traveled through YYC I found it easy to get around and a good airport to make a connection. I’d rather connect through YYC than through Pearson any day of the week.
Someone mentioned something earlier about the Jetson style people mover. I used it and found it to be too slow. I get that because of the curved structure of the building they can’t do those flat escalators, so they have to use something different, but I would go with a quicker rail type system. That’s my two cents, but outside of that I’ve had no issues using YYC.

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by DavidK93

Someone mentioned something earlier about the Jetson style people mover. I used it and found it to be too slow. I get that because of the curved structure of the building they can’t do those flat escalators, so they have to use something different, but I would go with a quicker rail type system. That’s my two cents, but outside of that I’ve had no issues using YYC.

Oh don't get me started on the post security people mover! What a freaking waste of money and an embarrassment to boot!

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

What other company or industry pays their staff for 50-70% of their pay?

Trucking would like a word. I'm hourly paid, so this isn't me, although if my boss wanted to pay my day's wages in the first hour, I would do the rest of the day "free". Many truck drivers get paid by the trip or by the mile. Not paid for sitting in traffic on the 401, not paid sitting at a loading dock, not paid while they fuel the truck, not paid while they do government required pre-trip inspections and filling out of electronic log books and load sheets. But after the doors close and the wheels roll. Most of them don't start at the $30+ an hour an entry level FA starts at.

Granted, flight attendants don't make a great paycheck early on in their career, like many also don't as they start out in other careers. In looking at the AC CUPE contract right now, it does have a good upside though in wages as you go up in years and position. Plus pretty good benefits. That higher hourly wage is because of the fewer paid hours. I have no idea why the industry went this route decades ago. I will say that CUPE has ran a pretty good PR campaign about the "free work", but never talks about the high hourly pay after a few years of seniority that is meant to compensate for that unpaid ground time.

[zahav]

I am not sure if this has already been posted, I can't remember seeing it. So if it has been posted, mods feel free to delete. But it was posted in December 2024:

OAG: Canadian Air Route Tops 2024 List of N. America's Busiest
Canadian city pairs took the first and 10th places for the busiest 2024 air routes in North America, while one U.S.-based route made the global top 10 list, OAG announced Tuesday. Ranks are determined by the volume of scheduled departing seats for flights in both directions.
Vancouver-Toronto was the top North American route in 2024 with nearly 3.5 million seats. Vancouver-Calgary closed out the top 10 list with 2.96 million seats. The eight intervening routes all were for U.S. city pairs. Atlanta-Orlando was the busiest U.S. route at 3.47 million seats, followed by Honolulu-Kahului at 3.37 million. Those U.S. pairs also were the top two in 2023, but in reverse order.

The full list 2024 Busiest N. America Air Routes (measured by departing seats)
1. Vancouver-Toronto, 3,498,835
2. Atlanta-Orlando - 3,474,713
3. Honolulu-Kahului - 3,369,790
4. Las Vegas-Los Angeles - 3,354,849
5. Denver-Phoenix - 3,214,473
6. Los Angeles-San Francisco - 3,158,918
7. New York JFK-Los Angeles - 3,158,654
8. New York LGA-Chicago - 3,118,179
9. Atlanta-Fort Lauderdale - 2,998,172
10. Vancouver-Calgary - 2,960,192

I am shocked to see YVR-YYZ at #1, I don't know if it's the first time that's happened, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Routes like ATL-MCO and HNL-OGG are historically such heavyweights, as are many other pairings on the list (ie. JFK-LAX). So it is really an accomplishment for YVR and YYZ to come in at #1 (well, at least for us AV geeks lol, my experience is that average people have little to no interest in airport and airline logistics lol).

Also shocking that YVR-YYC is in the top 10. Not only am I shocked to see the route in the top 10 busiest of North America, but I didn't even think it was #2 in Canada! I knew YVR-YYZ had the most seats i, but I thought either YYZ-YYC or YYZ-YUL would be in 2nd place, so it's wild to see us represent so much. This observation is even more strange: LAX appeared in 3 route pairings, while ATL and YVR appeared in 2 pairings. All others appeared only once. I know this isn't major news or anything, just neat for YVR to be on there twice, beside LAX and ATL, two of the most important airports on earth. Obviously I am not even remotely implying YVR being amongst them means we are in their league. Absolutely not, we're in different galaxies lol, never mind leagues. It's fun just to be mentioned in the same breath.

And it's cool that a Canadian pairing took the crown this year against some heavy hitters. I hate the whole US-Canada situationship at the moment, it's ugly in so many ways. But it's funny just to have a petty brag over our American counterparts . And having one more Canadian pairing in the top 10 is just further evidence that our place on that list isn't crazy.

Here's some things I either noticed or want clarification on:
1. Although the list calls itself North America, it notably omits Mexico. MEX to CUN and to MTY are busier, but I guess OAG categorizes Mexico under Latin America and not N. America
2. The link article is odd in that it didn't use airport codes, it used city names. Anyone halfway savvy with airports knows that you always use airport codes, it is too unclear otherwise. And other than JFK and LGA, the article doesn't even mention full airport names, and yet there are cities on the list like Orlando, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Phoenix which have significant traffic at multiple airports. So it made me wonder if the list was counting multiple metro airports together? Heck, they could even have added YVR+YXX and YYZ+YHM+YTZ. Luckily the OAG site itself had a downloadable spreadsheet with the data, and thankfully used airport codes. So all pairs are airport to airport, no combining within metros. Even more impressive knowing that. Before I saw the spreadsheet, I thought that combining airports in the same region could explain YVR-YYC a little more, since YXX has a ton of YYC flights and could make the difference to put VAN-CGY into the top 10. But it is just YVR-YYC, YXX traffic is on top of that.

If those two routes weren't enough, Canada appeared again on an another prestigious list. CDG-YUL at #6 on Top 10 North America International Routes. They are the only Canadian city on this list, so that's very cool. Oddly enough, even though the route came at #6 for NA routes to Europe, on Europe's list of top international routes, YUL didn't even make the top 10. But routes to/from European and Asian countries are massive, it is too unrealistic right now.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by zahav

1. Although the list calls itself North America, it notably omits Mexico. MEX to CUN and to MTY are busier, but I guess OAG categorizes Mexico under Latin America and not N. America
2. The link article is odd in that it didn't use airport codes, it used city names. Anyone halfway savvy with airports knows that you always use airport codes, it is too unclear otherwise. And other than JFK and LGA, the article doesn't even mention full airport names, and yet there are cities on the list like Orlando, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Phoenix which have significant traffic at multiple airports. So it made me wonder if the list was counting multiple metro airports together?

Mexico is part of North America, so that list is false. So yes, MEX-CUN and MEX-MTY are the top two busiest North American domestic routes, no matter how you slice it. GDL-MEX would be in the top 10 as well. Having a separate Latin American section is fine, but you cannot omit Mexico from the North American section. That is just wrong.

Another thing OAG gets wrong is it considers flights from mainland US to Puerto Rico as international flights. That is also wrong. Those are domestic flights.

In the top 10 Latin American international routes, MCO-SJU is #1 and JFK-SJU is #5. They have no business being on that list. YYZ-CUN is #8, but should be #6.

As for your question at the end, the lists are airport-pair specific, not city pair. OAG's google doc spreadsheet with all the worldwide top 10s mentions the airport codes.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...=1&gid=0#gid=0

This is how you quickly realize that it doesn't illustre how big the underlying markets are. New York (JFK+EWR) to Los Angeles (LAX+SNA) is probably the largest domestic market in North America.

So you have to take these lists with that important aspect in mind.

Originally Posted by zahav

Heck, they could even have added YVR+YXX and YYZ+YHM+YTZ.

YXX isn't going to move the Vancouver needle much. It handled only 1 million passengers last year and most of that traffic was to YYC/YEG. A bit of the same story with YHM. If city-pairs were included, Toronto-Vancouver and Vancouver-Calgary wouldn't be on the top 10 lists. So they have an advantage that OAG only lists airports pairs. It's not the other way around.

Originally Posted by zahav

If those two routes weren't enough, Canada appeared again on an another prestigious list. CDG-YUL at #6 on Top 10 North America International Routes. They are the only Canadian city on this list, so that's very cool.

And imagine how large Montreal-Paris is, as that number doesn't include YUL-ORY. Last year (and for over two decades) it was Corsair operating the route on a summer seasonal basis.

This year, it is French Bee that took over, and quickly converted the route to year round.

[begratto]

And Montreal / YUL has direct flights to quite a few other French cities, which are of course not included

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by begratto

And Montreal / YUL has direct flights to quite a few other French cities, which are of course not included

Sure, but I was staying in the city-pair metric. CDG and ORY both serve Paris.

OAG doesn't have a list of top 10 "city to country" list. But if they did, then yes, YUL to France would surely be up there.

[hollywoodcory]

Figured this was coming eventually, but WS is adding 1x weekly YYC-PXM.

WS2236 YYC 08:55 - 15:44 PXM 737 5
WS2237 PXM 16:45 - 21:45 YYC 737 5

Appears from December 12. This marks YYC’s 15th destination in Mexico (if my math is right).

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Figured this was coming eventually, but WS is adding 1x weekly YYC-PXM.

WS2236 YYC 08:55 - 15:44 PXM 737 5
WS2237 PXM 16:45 - 21:45 YYC 737 5

Appears from December 12. This marks YYC’s 15th destination in Mexico (if my math is right).

14th, according to flightconnections.com, unless they haven't loaded another route to Mexico that YYC has.

From west to east, LTO, SJD, MZT, PVR, TPQ, ZLO, GDL, ZIH, MEX, HUX, TQO, CUN, CZM, and now PXM.

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

14th.

From west to east, LTO, SJD, MZT, PVR, TPQ, ZLO, GDL, ZIH, MEX, HUX, TQO, CUN, CZM, and now PXM.

I had counted MID in that too. WS only serves that from YYZ. Guess I've learned to not post before having my morning coffee.

This is also YYC's 5th new Mexican market added in 2025.

[J81]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Trucking would like a word. I'm hourly paid, so this isn't me, although if my boss wanted to pay my day's wages in the first hour, I would do the rest of the day "free". Many truck drivers get paid by the trip or by the mile. Not paid for sitting in traffic on the 401, not paid sitting at a loading dock, not paid while they fuel the truck, not paid while they do government required pre-trip inspections and filling out of electronic log books and load sheets. But after the doors close and the wheels roll. Most of them don't start at the $30+ an hour an entry level FA starts at.

Granted, flight attendants don't make a great paycheck early on in their career, like many also don't as they start out in other careers. In looking at the AC CUPE contract right now, it does have a good upside though in wages as you go up in years and position. Plus pretty good benefits. That higher hourly wage is because of the fewer paid hours. I have no idea why the industry went this route decades ago. I will say that CUPE has ran a pretty good PR campaign about the "free work", but never talks about the high hourly pay after a few years of seniority that is meant to compensate for that unpaid ground time.

+1 for this! The trucking industry is one of the most broken industries in Canada.

Also, service attendants at VIA rail currently do not get paid for all hours worked.

[hollywoodcory]

NAV Canada staffing continues to be a problem, and massive disruptions occurred at YVR resulting in 4+ hour delays and many cancellations last night.

After 6pm every YYC-YVR flight was cancelled, along with 3 more this morning. The real issues come in trying to rebook those connecting onwards to Asia with limited availability (especially to those who cannot transit the US).

Well its understandable there isn't an immediate solution, but something desperately needs to be done.

[JakeLRS]

Porter Expands Alberta Presence

New Ottawa - Fort McMurrary
3x Weekly starting November 17

PD417 YOW 0925 1155 YMM days 135
PD418 YMM 1250 1845 YOW days 135


A bit of a head scratcher, but Porter has the right size aircraft for this route and properly timed connections to the maritimes. I wonder if they got any incentive to run this route.

[phone]

I'm not sure why everyone is ragging on YYC so much.. yeah the people mover is kind of dumb, but the airport is clean, spacious, decent food options, easy to navigate, excellent range of destinations for a city its size, continual renovations and improvements.

YVR is also an excellent airport, I love its public art in particular and its design cohesion, but its domestic terminal feels pretty cramped.. basically just one kinda short boomerang shaped concourse that's accessible to passengers. YYC you have a much wider area to roam during long transfers.

Then again, I'm not really an aviation geek, but I hope this opinion does not cause a round of balking and incredulity...

[cyeg66]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

NAV Canada staffing continues to be a problem, and massive disruptions occurred at YVR resulting in 4+ hour delays and many cancellations last night.

After 6pm every YYC-YVR flight was cancelled, along with 3 more this morning. The real issues come in trying to rebook those connecting onwards to Asia with limited availability (especially to those who cannot transit the US).

Well its understandable there isn't an immediate solution, but something desperately needs to be done.

YVR Twr/TCU staffing are a blight on the company. And then you had YEG, already down to a single runway due to construction of rwy 02/20, suffer a total closure for a number of hours because of an aircraft suffering a landing gear issue, thus blocking the only operational runway. What a poop show.

[harls]

Originally Posted by phone

Then again, I'm not really an aviation geek, but I hope this opinion does not cause a round of balking and incredulity...

I think you have to have YXE in your username to participate in this thread.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by cyeg66

YVR Twr/TCU staffing are a blight on the company. And then you had YEG, already down to a single runway due to construction of rwy 02/20, suffer a total closure for a number of hours because of an aircraft suffering a landing gear issue, thus blocking the only operational runway. What a poop show.

Time for EZ3 to shine!

[hollywoodcory]

WS announces a new interline agreement with Copa for connectivity out of PTY
https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2...a-airlines--ex

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

WS announces a new interline agreement with Copa for connectivity out of PTY
https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2...a-airlines--ex

The route was pointless without it.

[phone]

Originally Posted by harls

I think you have to have YXE in your username to participate in this thread.

Hahaha you’re probably right! FWIW but for its atrocious baggage handling, YXE has got to be one of Canada’s nicest small airports.

I do have some pilots in my family, but I’ll take my out-group status in stride and let the big kids talk lol