Ottawa Senators LeBreton Arena | 11 Acres | In Planning

[J.OT13]

Here's 11 acres, current Palladium vs LeBreton. There a bit off with the LeBreton parcel (goes too far east and misses part of the Bayview triangle).

[Richard Eade]

Hmmm. . . So it looks as if it won’t easily fit.

Measuring (google map) across the flat part of the CTC roof, I get about 118.5m. This ignores the ‘rounding’ of the existing building – which might be required to provide adequate passage-way room.

Measuring the widest part of the LeBreton land, I get about 116.5m.

Even a really rough estimate for the ‘little’ 7,000 seat, mostly one-sided, TD Place arena looks like about 85m in width.

The shape of this parcel of LeBreton Flats land is not ideal for a big-ish arena. I think that their best option is to have a small-ish footprint on the ground, and widen as they go up. Setting the building nearer the north-west of the property would allow for bars, retail, etc. along Albert, under the south-side stands, and the north-side seats to extend over the train. Exits on the north would be onto the MUP that already exists north of the tracks.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Hmmm. . . So it looks as if it won’t easily fit.

Measuring (google map) across the flat part of the CTC roof, I get about 118.5m. This ignores the ‘rounding’ of the existing building – which might be required to provide adequate passage-way room.

Measuring the widest part of the LeBreton land, I get about 116.5m.

Even a really rough estimate for the ‘little’ 7,000 seat, mostly one-sided, TD Place arena looks like about 85m in width.

The shape of this parcel of LeBreton Flats land is not ideal for a big-ish arena. I think that their best option is to have a small-ish footprint on the ground, and widen as they go up. Setting the building nearer the north-west of the property would allow for bars, retail, etc. along Albert, under the south-side stands, and the north-side seats to extend over the train. Exits on the north would be onto the MUP that already exists north of the tracks.

It makes sense for them to extend concourses over the tracks if they can. But overall, the CTC layout isn't a good comparison. They had lots of space, so they used a big footprint. The appropriate comparisons are downtown arenas like the Bell Centre in Montreal (which is 21,000 seats), MTS Centre in Winnipeg etc. Those easily fit on much smaller parcels.

TD Place is well known for its huge footprint. That's one of the rationales for the planned replacement - to free up land for other uses.

[BGO]

Originally Posted by phil235

It makes sense for them to extend concourses over the tracks if they can. But overall, the CTC layout isn't a good comparison. They had lots of space, so they used a big footprint. The appropriate comparisons are downtown arenas like the Bell Centre in Montreal (which is 21,000 seats), MTS Centre in Winnipeg etc. Those easily fit on much smaller parcels.

TD Place is well known for its huge footprint. That's one of the rationales for the planned replacement - to free up land for other uses.

Leaving free the east part connection with preston st. for commercial use is essential. Not doing it would be a huge fail. A nice stretched plaza toward the east, south side for commercial use and north side for the view, connection with the nature and remembring that we don't own the land.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Does anyone here define LeBreton as downtown? It seems more like a close suburban location. I really noticed that the last few years with Canada Day there. (This will be even further West). 20 minutes to Preston or 30 minutes to Bank street is outside of the especially winter walking radius for most.

I might not consider it as Downtown proper today, but within 5 to 10 years, certainly. The site will be anchored by at least three major destinations, the library, the War Museum and the NHL Arena, served by two O-Train Stations and two transit Lines. The Flats will have a population of around 10k and become a restaurant and entertainment hub for the City, bookending the traditional "old" Downtown with the Market.

The Arena will be an important catalyst to liven up the west part of Downtown, Zibi and Hull.

I am curious why you'd call it a "close suburban location". I can't really understand that.

Originally Posted by acottawa

1.7 million for the first year or two when people check out the new thing seems reasonable. It seems implausible to me as a long term visitor number. That would mean 50% of all library visits for the entire city would be to the central library.

The library won't just be the central library, but it will also be the local library for the 10,000 people who live in LeBreton Flats, the 10,000 people who live on the Escarpment and the CBD along with the 35,000 in Centretown/Centretown West. I don't think any other library in Ottawa has the weight of serving over 50,000 people.

Originally Posted by AuxTown

I don't think that's true. In terms of access to the geographic and cultural centre of the city, most NHL arenas are actually farther from downtown than ours will be. Personally, I don't think we should build large inward-facing buildings that take up multiple city blocks right downtown. They might bring foot traffic on game/concert nights but, overall, they take away from vibrant urban spaces. Luckily, almost every arena I can think of (including Toronto and Montreal) are downtown Adjacent. Yes there has been a lot of development around them in recent years (much like ours will have) but they were not plunked smack in the centre of the CBD or other vibrant areas. In fact, they were both built on relatively undesirable land close to downtown....remind you of anything?

I think we have a really good balance. Having the arena on the edge of a future arena district, but still well connected by foot, bike and transit to the city's traditional night life areas will serve us well. They'll hopefully be able to tuck in the receiving area and underground parking by the tracks, under an outdoor fan deck overlooking LeBreton Park and the river, so we end up with no dead elevations. We could easily have towers on two or three corners with bars/restaurants at the base. It should be the most spectacular location for an arena to really showcase its architecture instead of having it lost within a city block surrounded by other buildings.

Originally Posted by phil235

The Montreal and Toronto arenas are both right downtown, and much more downtown than Lebreton is. As are Winnipeg, Vancouver and Edmonton. Of the Canadian cities, it's really only Calgary that is not.

But you are right that lots of rinks are further from the city centre - NYI, Anaheim, Florida, Carolina, Chicago and Philadelphia. Vegas is its own beast, but definitely not more urban. Salt Lake City, L.A, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Denver and Seattle would be similar distance to Lebreton.

It's a bit of an outlier in Canada, but not in the league as a whole.

I agree with your Downtown Canadian NHL arenas except Vancouver is in a weird spot between two partial highways and residential on the other side. I don't think there's any activity directly adjacent.

Calgary is the closest situation to ours, but I'd say LeBreton is better integrated with Downtown. Calgary's district is sort of offset, across train tracks.

Philadelphia will be getting a Downtown proper arena in 2030.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Absolutely probably the best we could do but but a site that actually is attached to a vibrant area would have been better. 20 minute walk to Kent street isn't it.

It'll still be one of the least urban NHL arenas.

For now, but as LeBreton grows, it will become as urban as anywhere else. In the context of a fully complete LeBreton, and considering future arenas and arena districts (Calgary and Philadelphia), I'd say LeBreton ranks pretty high.

In rough order, the Rangers, the Leafs, the Flyers, the Canadians, the Capitals, the Jets, the Bruins, Predators, the Oilers and the Blues have a more urban location. Ottawa would rank eleventh place. Other arenas are in urban areas, but either have a lot of surface parking or highways cutting them off from the bar/restaurant districts.

Originally Posted by AuxTown

I see your point, but if you look at MTL and TOR there was basically nothing around the arena sites for 300+ metres in every direction when they were built, similar to what we have currently at Lebreton.

Maybe it's not fair to compare us to cities of 3-5 million people as well.

Agreed. The Air Canada Centre and Molson Centre were Downtown adjacent like LeBreton Flats when they were built. LeBreton will probably develop faster than their arena districts did over the last 30 years.

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Hmmm. . . So it looks as if it won’t easily fit.

Measuring (google map) across the flat part of the CTC roof, I get about 118.5m. This ignores the ‘rounding’ of the existing building – which might be required to provide adequate passage-way room.

Measuring the widest part of the LeBreton land, I get about 116.5m.

Even a really rough estimate for the ‘little’ 7,000 seat, mostly one-sided, TD Place arena looks like about 85m in width.

The shape of this parcel of LeBreton Flats land is not ideal for a big-ish arena. I think that their best option is to have a small-ish footprint on the ground, and widen as they go up. Setting the building nearer the north-west of the property would allow for bars, retail, etc. along Albert, under the south-side stands, and the north-side seats to extend over the train. Exits on the north would be onto the MUP that already exists north of the tracks.

Originally Posted by phil235

It makes sense for them to extend concourses over the tracks if they can. But overall, the CTC layout isn't a good comparison. They had lots of space, so they used a big footprint. The appropriate comparisons are downtown arenas like the Bell Centre in Montreal (which is 21,000 seats), MTS Centre in Winnipeg etc. Those easily fit on much smaller parcels.

TD Place is well known for its huge footprint. That's one of the rationales for the planned replacement - to free up land for other uses.

LeBreton land for the arena is 108x230. For comparison, GM Place in Vancouver is roughly 166x100. Air Canada Place 107x124, Molson Centre 140x90 (most seats in the NHL) and MTS is 88x150 (smallest in the NHL). Climate Pledge Arena is 120x140. Boston is about 150x90. In fact, Boston's arena and the Hub on Causeway (where the old Boston Garden used to be) totals about 5.5 to 6 acres, the size of just the arena parcel in Ottawa, so the other 5 acres is gravy.

The Palladium isn't very space efficient, and that's the issue when you have all the land in the World to play with. Many NHL teams were able to build something impressive with very little land.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by BGO

Leaving free the east part connection with preston st. for commercial use is essential. Not doing it would be a huge fail. A nice stretched plaza toward the east, south side for commercial use and north side for the view, connection with the nature and remembring that we don't own the land.

For sure, and that's probably why Andlauer insisted on owning the land on both sides of the arena. He'll want to animate all three urban frontages to elevate the fan experience. He won't be making any money off this project, so it's clear that he's really doing this for the fans and grow the fanbase.

Can't wait to see the first renderings of the design, how it will integrate with the other blocks and how it will take advantage of the views to and from the park and river. This will be one of the few arenas that will be an integral part of the skyline.

[Norman Bates]

I’m wondering how it contrasts with the old Forum and the former Maple Leaf Gardens?

[lrt's friend]

Will we get the dining and entertainment district we hope for? This requires human scale development instead trying to insert businesses into the base of high towers and surrounding wind tunnels. Byward and Lansdowne succeed with more human scale buildings. You look at Albert and Rideau streets downtown and their building canyons and it is more challenging to create an inviting environment. Hockey alone is not enough to create a vibrant dining and entertainment district.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Norman Bates

I’m wondering how it contrasts with the old Forum and the former Maple Leaf Gardens?

MLG was 80x95. The Forum (which was modernized and expanded in the 60s) 90x110. Those had fewer seats smaller concourses and amenities and few (none?) luxury boxes.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Will we get the dining and entertainment district we hope for? This requires human scale development instead trying to insert businesses into the base of high towers and surrounding wind tunnels. Byward and Lansdowne succeed with more human scale buildings. You look at Albert and Rideau streets downtown and their building canyons and it is more challenging to create an inviting environment. Hockey alone is not enough to create a vibrant dining and entertainment district.

LeBreton won't be wall to wall towers like the CBD or Rideau. We can see on the map below that every block will be a mid rise (I think 8 floors, but I can't quite make it out) with a courtyard, with enough set-backs to let light and air in, and one corner high-rise.

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Will we get the dining and entertainment district we hope for? This requires human scale development instead trying to insert businesses into the base of high towers and surrounding wind tunnels. Byward and Lansdowne succeed with more human scale buildings. You look at Albert and Rideau streets downtown and their building canyons and it is more challenging to create an inviting environment. Hockey alone is not enough to create a vibrant dining and entertainment district.

Hockey alone might not be (41-50 games a year depending on playoffs) but an entertainment complex that hosts 120+ events a year will be. That means at least twice weekly there would be 10-20k people visiting the site for hockey, concerts and other events. More than enough traffic (in addition to the local residents and downtown tourists) to make it work.

[ponyboycurtis]

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/denley...-land-not-about-fans?itm_source=trending

I have no words for this. Are we just going to ignore the fact that the new arena will be at the nexus of all our new transit lines?

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/denley...-land-not-about-fans?itm_source=trending

I have no words for this. Are we just going to ignore the fact that the new arena will be at the nexus of all our new transit lines?

Ottawans are generally so insanely car addicted/obsessed they can’t imagine life in any other way except for the one time every five years they drop thousands of dollars to visit some old European city. This article is beyond joke status.

[rocketphish]

Sports delusions aside, we could do so much better at LeBreton Flats
This latest deal is reportedly worth somewhere between $30 and $35 million. Is this really what this expanse of prime real estate is worth?

By Brigitte Pellerin, Ottawa Citizen
Published Aug 15, 2025 | Last updated 4 days ago

QUEBEC CITY — It’s official. In Ottawa, we cannot think about community outside the ice rink.

You could say I’m a little irritated by the land deal just announced between the National Capital Commission and the National Hockey League to build a sports facility at LeBreton Flats. We could do so much better than that, for instance by taking inspiration from my favourite Quebec City project.

I don’t wish to be more of a killjoy than usual and deny the people of Ottawa their bread and circuses. But golly. Do we really need to devote that much public space to professional sports, related loud restaurants and louder bars? Are there no other pursuits worthy of our collective approval?

But Brigitte, you insufferable snob, people love their pucksports!

Don’t I know it. But you know what else I’m aware of? Sports fans are — and I say this as gently as I can — slightly delusional.

For instance, they keep hoping and believing that their team will win a trophy despite all evidence to the contrary. And I don’t just mean the Leafs.

In itself, belief in a team’s efforts and potential success could almost be cute, much like puppy love. And about as harmless. You go ahead and paint your face and wear jerseys and cheer on your couch. If you find value in these activities, who am I to judge?

It’s when the delusion extends to assuming that building a new spectator sports facility will necessarily benefit the larger community that I have a problem. Especially when coupled with the blind and mistaken assumption that it won’t cost the public a thing.

Politicians and franchise owners trip over themselves trying to reassure everyone that very wealthy business people employing very wealthy athletes to play a sport enjoyed by fans who have enough disposable income to drop thousands of dollars on season tickets plus roughly the same on beer and hotdogs (I am barely exaggerating) aren’t after subsidies.

I’m ready to believe there won’t be direct monetary contributions to building the arena, but I know full well league owners only invest when there’s significant government support thrown their way. Mayor Mark Sutcliffe, for one, says “yes, absolutely, there is a role for us to play” in this arena project.

That’s assuming the project actually does come to fruition, mind you. I hate being that person who twists the knife in the wound, but it’s necessary to remind local hockey enthusiasts that they’ve had their hearts broken before.

Also, why must arenas take over valuable public spaces like that? This latest deal is reportedly worth somewhere between $30 and $35 million. Is this really what this expanse of prime real estate is worth? How does anyone know what the true market value is when there’s only one buyer considered?

What if, instead, we had decided to use this beautiful space for complete communities with lots of various housing options, including the affordable kind, arts venues, places for people, flexible office space, playgrounds, sponge parks, or whatever else people think we should have, determined by a real and thorough public consultation, in a space that ought to remain fully accessible to the public for historical and community reasons?

I am in Quebec City this week, and I checked in on construction at the Place Fleur-de-Lys site I told you about a year and a half ago. The site of an old and decrepit mall is being turned into a complete community by civic-minded private developers. Residential buildings are coming up nice and fast and while there’s a lot of dust and disruption, there is also plenty of progress. The website (in French) shows the kinds of residential rental units already available and the various amenities available to residents.

We could do something inspired by that at LeBreton Flats. But we’re not, because in Ottawa, if it doesn’t involve an ice rink, we don’t even think about it. Colour me deeply disappointed.

Brigitte Pellerin (they/them) is an Ottawa writer.

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/pellerin-lebreton-flats

[acottawa]

I wonder if they are aware Quebec already built a hockey arena, despite not having a team.

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I wonder if they are aware Quebec already built a hockey arena, despite not having a team.

Pellerin is just the left-wing version of denley, lots of hot air, nor much for facts/Data or research.

Anyways, if they weren't aware, they were made aware and then they doubled down on that ridiculous article.

[TheBrain]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Sports delusions aside, we could do so much better at LeBreton Flats

.... I am in Quebec City this week, and I checked in on construction at the Place Fleur-de-Lys site I told you about a year and a half ago. The site of an old and decrepit mall is being turned into a complete community by civic-minded private developers. .....

Place Fleur-de-Lys ... which is a 10-15min walk from Quebec City's arena, Centre Vidéotron.

Yeah, the Fleur-de-Lys/ExpoCité/Vidéotron site is about twice(?) the size of the Flats but it still features the main arena for the city. If you throw in Zibi it makes both areas close to the same size.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Brigitte Pellerin (they/them) is an Ottawa writer.

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/pellerin-lebreton-flats

Funny how the article is featuring the picture of the wrong parcel. Actually precisely the parcel that is slated for the "complete communities with lots of various housing options, including the affordable kind".
Embarrassing. Was expecting better from Pellerin.

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/denley...-land-not-about-fans?itm_source=trending

I have no words for this. Are we just going to ignore the fact that the new arena will be at the nexus of all our new transit lines?

Randall Denley is such a dinosaur! Nobody cares what he says.

[Tesladom]

25 years ago we had Earl McRae... somethings never change

[lrt's friend]

Oh my. No vision to make Ottawa better.

Two things need to happen. LRT extension needs to reach Eagleson to satisfy Kanata fans losing CTC.

On the design front, let the arena concourses be glasses with views of downtown, the river and the Gatineau hills.

Bring it on!