Canadian Airport Thread II

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

While AC is a dominant airline in Canada, it doesn't have anywhere near a monopoly. As long as Westjet and Porter and other smaller airlines can fill in the gaps, the Feds aren't likely to be eager to step in, at least not to start. Let the corps work things out.

AC doesn’t have a monopoly, but they have a HUGE chunk of the pie. WS and PD can’t backfill that, especially not in mid-August, which is still peak travel season, with all flights close to full.

No airline has spare aircraft on the ground in August. They’re all flying and earning revenue.

If this strike had happened in November or mid-January, it would be a different story, but right now, there is not much WS, TS or PD can do, except gouge people on some of the last empty seats they have this week. I’m hearing prices have increased 6x fold to some destinations.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Sunnybrae

It's interesting to see the reaction of the public to how flight attendants are paid. It's not uncommon in the industry. Westjet does the same. Wheels up to wheels down. Wasn't an issue in the last contract talks or the one before that. They agreed when they took the job and signed the contract. Why the pity party from the public? Oh yah, union spin. If that's what they want this time, fine, but this is not new. No one was ignorant about it when they were hired.

I know of truckers that get paid by the mile. Not for gassing up or loading and unloading or maintenance. They knew that when they took the job. Otherwise, don't take the job.

On your last flight did you realize that cabin crew aren’t getting paid when they greet you, direct to your seat or help you stow overhead baggage? Why should they not be paid for that? Its work, not leisure time!

Do you show up for work at 9:00 am and work for a hour without expecting to be paid?

[Sunnybrae]

Originally Posted by whatnext

On your last flight did you realize that cabin crew aren’t getting paid when they greet you, direct to your seat or help you stow overhead baggage? Why should they not be paid for that? Its work, not leisure time!

Do you show up for work at 9:00 am and work for a hour without expecting to be paid?

On my last flight I knew they were being paid from wheels up to wheels down. It's in the contract they agreed to and signed. What other things they are paid or not paid for is of no concern to me.

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

AC doesn’t have a monopoly, but they have a HUGE chunk of the pie. WS and PD can’t backfill that, especially not in mid-August, which is still peak travel season, with all flights close to full.

No airline has spare aircraft on the ground in August. They’re all flying and earning revenue.

If this strike had happened in November or mid-January, it would be a different story, but right now, there is not much WS, TS or PD can do, except gouge people on some of the last empty seats they have this week. I’m hearing prices have increased 6x fold to some destinations.

If you can even find seats to begin. Almost every route that WS overlaps with AC out of YYC is sold out for days. Seems even every flight to Europe is also sold out too. (With limited seats to KEF and Asia).

[thenoflyzone]

Well, the majors were struggling to post any meaningful growth numbers this year. This strike definitely won't help.

YYZ, YUL, YVR will especially feel the pinch. YYC less so, but it will have an impact there as well.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by Sunnybrae

On my last flight I knew they were being paid from wheels up to wheels down. It's in the contract they agreed to and signed. What other things they are paid or not paid for is of no concern to me.

And now that it's time for a new contract negotiation, they've decided not to sign it. Seems fairly straightforward to me.

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

If you can even find seats to begin. Almost every route that WS overlaps with AC out of YYC is sold out for days. Seems even every flight to Europe is also sold out too. (With limited seats to KEF and Asia).

Spoke too soon. Now even KEF/NRT and ICN are sold out. Gonna be a messy week.

[hehehe]

Obviously no one knows what will happen and if a strike will even occur, but a relative is flying BNE-YVR and back, leaves on the 25th (so the outbound YVR-BNE leaves 11PM on the 23rd). I'm hoping it'll be over by then (but I have a feeling we'll see an eleventh hour agreement like last year with the pilots)

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by hehehe

Obviously no one knows what will happen and if a strike will even occur, but a relative is flying BNE-YVR and back, leaves on the 25th (so the outbound YVR-BNE leaves 11PM on the 23rd). I'm hoping it'll be over by then (but I have a feeling we'll see an eleventh hour agreement like last year with the pilots)

Didn’t go this far with the pilots…

I dont know, I’m holding out hope as well, but time is quickly running out, and the damage has already been done. Hundreds of flights have already been canceled, and tens of thousands of ppl have been affected. This has already cost AC a lot of money, and they haven’t even signed a new agreement yet….

[hollywoodcory]

The WS mainline pilots came to an agreement with like an hour to spare, but with the strike starting in literally minutes it doesn’t seem like there will be an eleventh hour agreement here.

Let’s hope they find an agreement soon.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Didn’t go this far with the pilots…

I dont know, I’m holding out hope as well, but time is quickly running out, and the damage has already been done. Hundreds of flights have already been canceled, and tens of thousands of ppl have been affected. This has already cost AC a lot of money, and they haven’t even signed a new agreement yet….

AC profits were already going down recently no? This is gonna be really expensive for them

[hollywoodcory]

Well… second summer in a row with a major airline going on strike. And with more groups contracts coming up in the next few months, it’s gonna be a bumpy ride.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Well… second summer in a row with a major airline going on strike. And with more groups contracts coming up in the next few months, it’s gonna be a bumpy ride.

Especially for YYZ/YVR/YUL. I'm kind of surprised it didn't get figured out at the last hour

[whatnext]

This is a big failure for the Liberal government. The general public seems generally supportive of flight attendants being paid when they start working not when the doors close. Aviation and labour are federal responsibilities. They could have introduced legislation requiring airlines to pay for that time.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by whatnext

This is a big failure for the Liberal government. The general public seems generally supportive of flight attendants being paid when they start working not when the doors close. Aviation and labour are federal responsibilities. They could have introduced legislation requiring airlines to pay for that time.

The public response does not take into account the higher airfares that the change would cause. Legislation would address the pay issue, but leave Canadian airlines at a competitive disadvantage. Somehow the pay mechanism needs to become the standard among all airlines.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by whatnext

This is a big failure for the Liberal government. The general public seems generally supportive of flight attendants being paid when they start working not when the doors close. Aviation and labour are federal responsibilities. They could have introduced legislation requiring airlines to pay for that time.

The airline industry is already heavily regulated. It doesn't need one more regulation, especially one that is becoming standard across the industry. AC is on record as already having offered boarding pay. So it's a guarantee that will be part of the next agreement.

This is not government failure. The government is doing what it should be doing: nothing, except to push AC and CUPE to come to an agreement as quickly as possible.

The right to strike is a constitutionally protected right. There is no government failure here. The failure lies in the hands of AC and CUPE, for not coming to terms earlier.

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

The airline industry is already heavily regulated. It doesn't need one more regulation, especially one that is becoming standard across the industry. AC is on record as already having offered boarding pay. So it's a guarantee that will be part of the next agreement.

This is not government failure. The government is doing what it should be doing: nothing, except to push AC and CUPE to come to an agreement as quickly as possible.

The right to strike is a constitutionally protected right. There is no government failure here. The failure lies in the hands of AC and CUPE, for not coming to terms earlier.

Except they did:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/article/air-canada-flight-attendants-officially-begin-strike/

This is honestly a disgusting move by the feds. It sets a precedent that the airlines don’t have to bargain in good faith and the government will bail them out.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The public response does not take into account the higher airfares that the change would cause. Legislation would address the pay issue, but leave Canadian airlines at a competitive disadvantage. Somehow the pay mechanism needs to become the standard among all airlines.

C’est la vie. Air travel is too cheap anyway. That’s why we’re seeing mass tourism protests around the world.

Porter must be shitting bricks now that their flight attendants have signed on to the same union as AC. They’ll be expected to adopt a similar contract.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

This is honestly a disgusting move by the feds. It sets a precedent that the airlines don’t have to bargain in good faith and the government will bail them out.

Agreed. However, arbitration doesn't necessarily mean the flight attendants will get shafted.

I think the arbitrator will give them what AC offered (38% overall compensation increase), plus ~5%. Which is ok, and in line with that the pilots got.

Originally Posted by whatnext

C’est la vie. Air travel is too cheap anyway. That’s why we’re seeing mass tourism protests around the world.

Porter must be shitting bricks now that their flight attendants have signed on to the same union as AC. They’ll be expected to adopt a similar contract.

As of Jan 1 of this year, PD flight attendants already get boarding pay, at 50% pay, for 30 minutes.

AC offered something similar (50%), but don't know if its time limited.

To my knowledge, Pascan is the only other carrier in Canada that offers boarding pay, since 2022. Full pay (100%), for one full hour.

[casper]

Originally Posted by whatnext

This is a big failure for the Liberal government. The general public seems generally supportive of flight attendants being paid when they start working not when the doors close. Aviation and labour are federal responsibilities. They could have introduced legislation requiring airlines to pay for that time.

Its the algorithm for calculating pay. If you add an extra hour before and after the flight to on/offload passengers and get to the hotel but reduce the per-hour rate to compensate you end up in the same place at the end of the year. It probably benefits flight attendants that on shorter routes at the determent of more senior attendants that tend to get the longer international flights.

All said, flight attendants should get a rase. Its weird they are caught up on this issue.

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

As of Jan 1 of this year, PD flight attendants already get boarding pay, at 50% pay, for 30 minutes.

AC offered something similar (50%), but don't know if its time limited.

To my knowledge, Pascan is the only other carrier in Canada that offers boarding pay, since 2022. Full pay (100%), for one full hour.

I could see some weird formula based on aircraft type.