DENVER | Transportation Thread

[TakeFive]

The Wonderful World of Buses -- UPDATED

"SmartCities Dive" has the update:

Tariffs make transit buses more expensive
Aug. 4, 2025 By Dan Zukowski -Senior Reporter

North American bus manufacturer New Flyer reported strong demand for transit buses and a shift away from zero-emission vehicles in its second-quarter earnings call.

Dive Brief:

• The cost of transit buses is increasing due to tariffs, NFI Group President and Chief Executive Officer Paul Soubry said during the company’s 2025 second-quarter earnings call Friday. Tariffs are being passed along to customers on both current and future contracts.
• Demand remains strong for New Flyer, NFI’s North American transit bus manufacturer, which reported a $13.5 billion backlog of orders, equaling more than 16,000 “equivalent units.”
• The first half of this year saw increasing orders for internal combustion engine buses and a “slight decline” in the percentage of zero-emission buses on order, Soubry said, which “we think reflects the new U.S. administration’s platform and customer procurement activity.”

Dive Insight:

“We were directly impacted by tariffs on the imports of steel and aluminum to the U.S. and Canada” during the second quarter, Soubry said.

He said the company is working with its customers on existing orders to negotiate and amend contracts to reflect tariff costs.

What About Today's (new) FTA?

Last year, the Federal Transit Administration reminded agencies using federal funds to procure transit buses that they can ask the FTA for additional funds and can amend certain contracts to cover price increases.

The FTA said in a July 25 press release it will now allow transit agencies to change federally funded zero-emission projects to low-emissions technology, which could include vehicles or infrastructure. “That’s the first time we’ve seen that,” Soubry said.

Soubry praised the FTA’s funding announcements under the new administration. The U.S. Department of Transportation made $1.5 billion in grants available through the FTA’s Buses and Bus Facilities and Low or No Emission bus grant programs in May and is keeping overall apportionments the same as last year.

I got the idea that RTD intended to order more buses in 2026. Not sure if this would include the new East Colfax BRT buses or not?

King County (Seattle) wants to raise more sales tax revenue for their bus fleet operations. No chance RTD could raise more tax revenue - unless the new State intended-for-a-choo choo from Denver to Boulder could be flipped to help RTD purchase more buses.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Yet Again, RTD makes the right, the most pragmatic decision

RTD’s new plan to clean up its bus fleet: hundreds of hybrids, dozens of EVs
Dec. 23, 2024 by Nathaniel Minor -- CPR News


Facilities and Fleet Transition Plan
December 17, 2024 -- RTD

TLDR: RTD discovered just how much refitting it's maintenance facilities to support EV buses would cost and had to punt doing so down the line. Also, given the increased load on the distribution system, Xcel needs to do a transmission substation addition which will takes several years.

[TakeFive]

Interesting

Originally Posted by wong21fr

TLDR: RTD discovered just how much refitting it's maintenance facilities to support EV buses would cost and had to punt doing so down the line. Also, given the increased load on the distribution system, Xcel needs to do a transmission substation addition which will takes several years.

I assume Hybrid buses are not a problem? In any case that sort of locks RTD into what they need to order.

Sweet SWEEP is having some bad hair days.

It doesn't make any sense for Xcel not to have NG in their mix.

[wong21fr]

I found RTD's Security-Related Metrics webpage interesting, it does show that the security plan does seem to be bearing positive results as indicted by the YoY declines in calls for service, illicit drug use, and the increase in fare checks:

https://www.rtd-denver.com/security-related-metrics

However, the incident reports around Union Station remain stubbornly high even though they are down by >50% versus a couple of years ago. All in all, these metrics suggest that professionalizing RTD's security force by creating the Transit Police Department was a positive decision. But you know what this security metric dashboard should also lead to? A similar dashboard for ridership.

[TakeFive]

Nice sleuthing

Originally Posted by wong21fr

I found RTD's Security-Related Metrics webpage interesting, it does show that the security plan does seem to be bearing positive results as indicted by the YoY declines in calls for service, illicit drug use, and the increase in fare checks:

https://www.rtd-denver.com/security-related-metrics

However, the incident reports around Union Station remain stubbornly high even though they are down by >50% versus a couple of years ago. All in all, these metrics suggest that professionalizing RTD's security force by creating the Transit Police Department was a positive decision. But you know what this security metric dashboard should also lead to? A similar dashboard for ridership.

Take me back to the Pre-COVID Days:

RTD used to provide boarding numbers for each station; that is what I most enjoyed.

Per my Arvada Olde Town post it was quite surprising to learn that the N Line has more ridership than the G Line: 3600 per day for the N Line; 3000 per day for the G Line.

It's sad/frustrating there aren't more riders but who could have predicted all the changes? I still contend that for what little money was invested (in hindsight) it will be worth it over time.

N Line patrons


Courtesy RTD

[TakeFive]

When Jarrett Walker speaks...

Is it time to panic or is it manufactured drama?
Somewhere in between I suspect.

The Fall of Philadelphia
August 27, 2025 By Jarrett Walker -- Streetsblog USA

The Pennsylvania State Senate has decided that the transit system of America’s fifth largest city should be substantially destroyed.

Note: The senate is controlled by Republicans.

To Pick a Nit: Philly hasn't been the 5th largest city for several years; that slot now belongs to Phoenix. A different piece rightly stated that Philly has the 5th largest transit system.

Similar dramas are playing out in Illinois, Oregon, and Rhode Island. Each crisis has arisen from the state legislature’s refusal to find new funding to save public transit, but Pennsylvania is the first state to actually push its biggest transit agency over the cliff.

In the Philadelphia area, SEPTA is making a 20 percent service cut but will eventually have to cut service 45 percent. Cutting almost half of a transit system is not a way to make it more efficient. It more like asking whether you’d like to keep your heart or your lungs.

Back in 2018 our firm did a detailed study of the Philadelphia network, and while we found many things to improve, none of those things would save even 10 percent, even if there weren’t unmet needs on which any savings should be spent.

In reality, legislation has been held up in an effort to reach agreement. What they finally decide is TBD.

Just to beat a dead horse

You can't beat the benefits of having designated funding as cities like Denver, Seattle, more recently Minneapolis... even Phoenix have. In Oregon it's about not having enough funding for their transit hungry legislature (not to mention roads and bridges) but a special session has eyes on jacking up several taxes/fees. Interestingly, while the population is (generally) transit friendly, they are none-to-happy to see rising taxes/fees.

[mhays]

Municipal population means nothing with transit systems. Do they cut lines off at the city limits?

[TakeFive]

Good Point

Originally Posted by mhays

Municipal population means nothing with transit systems. Do they cut lines off at the city limits?

People who don't live in Denver might not realize that Denver RTD includes all or parts of like 7 different counties.

In fact a lot of the articles about Denver regarding various topics it's often hard to tell if they talking about the City of Denver or the Denver Metro area. So the problem often lies with the writer.

[TakeFive]

Lock Up Brain; Throw away key
Don't think outside the Box.

I decided to do some digging. Read another piece about SEPTA.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2025/08/27/doomsday-for-septa-is-bad-news-for-everyone

In fiscal year 2024, SEPTA was actually the most efficient transit agency in the U.S. when comparing ridership to its operating budget, which, at $1.69 billion, was roughly $1 billion less than MBTA and $3 billion less than WMATA, who serve comparable or smaller numbers of customers. That operating budget included the last of SEPTA's federal COVID-19 relief funding;

Isn't that like half of Seattle's budget?

For whatever reason the older transit systems located in the NE have traditionally relied on State Funding for transit.

Pennsylvania (like Arizona) has a significant STATE sales/use tax of 6% (compared to 5.6%). Philly has a sales/use tax of 2%. Including liquor sales that amounts to ~$400 million per year. For comparison the RTD District collects ~$900 million in sales/use taxes per year. According to AI:

The counties SEPTA serves: Bucks County, Chester County, Delaware County, Montgomery County, and Philadelphia County

If SEPTA would propose (only) a five-tenths percent sales/use tax who knows how much that would total? We'll guess - at a minimum - an additional 50% over only Philly County or ~$600 million per year. Thinking of RTD you could speculate that with a .5% sales tax SEPTA would equal or even exceed RTD's revenue of $900 million from sales taxes.

With this revenue they wouldn't need so much funding from the state.

[TakeFive]

Waymo starts testing in Denver, Seattle in bid to expand robotaxi service across U.S.
Sep 2 2025 By Lora Kolodny -- CNBC

Alphabet’s Waymo unit will begin test drives of its robotaxis in Denver and Seattle this week, with humans behind the wheel, the company said Tuesday. “We will begin driving manually before validating our technology and operations for fully autonomous services in the future,” a company spokesperson said in an email. Waymo announced the tests in blog posts.

The company’s test fleet in Denver and in Seattle will include a mix of their fully electric Jaguar iPace and Geely Zeekr AVs. Waymo told CNBC that it will have up to a dozen cars each in Denver and Seattle to start testing.

The autonomous vehicle venture aims to expand its driverless, ride-hailing service ... after already launching commercial operations in Austin, Texas, as well as Atlanta, San Francisco, Phoenix and Los Angeles.

San Francisco and Phoenix were the two lynchpins. Down here their original base was/is located in Chandler (think SE Suburban in Denver).

Today while they've expanded a lot their primary focus is on the more urban areas and the airport. Interestingly, I don't like driving Old Town Scottsdale, Tempe or downtown Phoenix so I have little interaction with Waymo's - except when I end up in those areas.

It will be fun to see how these beasts do the 1st time it snows in Denver.

Note: Waymo is not (yet) allowed to drive on freeways with passengers. In the case of Sky Harbor it's only about 15 minutes from downtown Phoenix.

[mhays]

As scary as that is, I'm also concerned by CNBC's incorrect use of commas.

"The autonomous vehicle venture aims to expand its driverless, ride-hailing service..."

Come on, guys. "Ride-hailing service" is the noun, and you don't put a comma between the last or only adjective and the noun it modifies.

[TakeFive]

As a result of your post Denver7 News did a nice feature on the topic

I don't know why they didn't give you credit?

Originally Posted by wong21fr

I found RTD's Security-Related Metrics webpage interesting, it does show that the security plan does seem to be bearing positive results as indicted by the YoY declines in calls for service, illicit drug use, and the increase in fare checks:

https://www.rtd-denver.com/security-related-metrics

RTD police said one workflow change from officers increased safety on public transit
Aug 28, 2025 By: Danielle Kreutter -- Denver7 News

For years, Denver7 has tracked complaints about safety on public trains and buses in Denver. RTD data now shows criminal incident reports have been trending downward...

DENVER - A simple change in strategy for Denver's Regional Transportation District, appears to be working. "A lot of security officers and police officers were on more static posts, they were just at a location, but they weren't getting on our vehicles, they weren't riding the trains back and forth, they weren't getting on the busses," said RTD Transit Police Chief Steven Martingano.

Before he was sworn in as Chief, he served as Acting Chief in 2024. He says he made a big change right away. "We had asked them to start getting on the vehicles, checking fare," he said. "With the officers being on the trains, they're highly visible, right? So they can interject if there's any incidents happening," he said.

RTD reports security related calls into RTD Police are down about 33% and reports of illegal drug use are down between 50-70% depending on the month compared to last year

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by mhays

As scary as that is, I'm also concerned by CNBC's incorrect use of commas.

"The autonomous vehicle venture aims to expand its driverless, ride-hailing service..."

Come on, guys. "Ride-hailing service" is the noun, and you don't put a comma between the last or only adjective and the noun it modifies.

Actually, "service" is the noun; the other is descriptive. (IMO)

[Cirrus]

Spotted an RTD coach bus parked under an overpass in Washington, DC today.

I am guessing someone bought it used to drive as a tour bus, but that's just a guess.




Regardless, I'm thinking surely DC must've sent some draft picks out to Denver along with this DC taxi--spotted on Colfax last year--that clearly was traded for the bus

[Cirrus]

lol an even bigger nerd than me tracked this former RTD bus down and made a whole YouTube video about it.

It did indeed get bought by a charter company who uses it around town, including for bustitute shuttles during rail track maintenance.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Actually, "service" is the noun; the other is descriptive. (IMO)

No, "ride hailing" is embedded with the noun.

Consider the phrase "bad football team." The noun is "football team." "Football" is embedded with the noun.

The test is to switch the "adjectives" and see if it still makes sense. Are the Buffalos a "bad football team" or a "football, bad team"?

Anyway I wish publications would hire English majors. Or maybe they should teach English in journalism school. I get people on the internet not getting this stuff, but major media organizations?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Spotted an RTD coach bus parked under an overpass in Washington, DC today.

I am guessing someone bought it used to drive as a tour bus, but that's just a guess.

Regardless, I'm thinking surely DC must've sent some draft picks out to Denver along with this DC taxi--spotted on Colfax last year--that clearly was traded for the bus

Not sure how/where you come up with this stuff but that's pretty funny

Originally Posted by Cirrus

lol an even bigger nerd than me tracked this former RTD bus down and made a whole YouTube video about it.

It did indeed get bought by a charter company who uses it around town, including for bustitute shuttles during rail track maintenance.

Fun video a bonus.

[TakeFive]

I'm not sure that even CIRRUS has seen this trick

How many of you have gone fishing late in the day along the lake and looked out at some point and saw a LRT car floating on the lake? Are you kidding? When pigs fly?

https://www.theurbanist.org/2025/09/10/p...ses-i-90-for-first-time-in-pivotal-test/

Well, this person saw it


Sound Transit CEO Dow Constantine records a video from Mercer Island as the agency gets ready for the first live wire test on the I-90 bridge. (Sound Transit)

As Monday night stretched into Tuesday morning, Sound Transit celebrated a critical milestone as a powered light rail vehicle crossed the I-90 bridge between Seattle and the Eastside for the first time.

In view of a full throng of transit fans standing at Seattle’s East Portal Viewpoint, the single light rail train successfully traversed the Homer Hadley floating bridge

Here's what it looked like:


With the long-awaited "live wire" test successful ... Monday's test was a crucial milestone to stay on track for a grand opening next spring. (Sound Transit)

Let me guess; some of you are wondering who the heck is Homer Hadley?

Here's Homer:


Courtesy Mercer Island Historical Society

He just reeks like a structural engineer doesn't he? Btw, fascinating life that guy Homer had.

[mhays]

To protect Seattle's honor I'll note that the actual service will be four-car trains (390' or so).

Here's the interesting thing about the floating bridges: The one on the left was an emergency replacement for an older floating bridge that sank in 1990 or so. They were refurbishing it after the bigger second bridge was built. This included the big underwater rooms that kept the concrete structure buoyant. Someone forgot to close the hatches on some of those rooms over Thanksgiving weekend, which turned out to be very stormy. Water got in, one bridge segment flooded and started to sink, and other segments were pulled with it. Another tidbit would be the mile-plus of tunneling for the highway on both sides of the lake, some through a hill and also big caps on both sides (some lanes now converted to rail).

[TakeFive]

Is it any wonder why some people decide not to ride light rail...

....when stuff like this happens.

Vivika told us she normally parks in the 40th and Colorado lot two or three times a week — but not anymore.

“I'm about to go to work right now, [and] not take the train. Yeah, I'm just driving,” she said.

Stuff like this shouldn't happen either but in today's world perfect seems unattainable. At least here, RTD's beefed up security, including high-quality cameras, allowed for a quick response.