General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[PHX-DUDE-MAN]

What the fuck is this? Looks like a wet soggy fucking shoe box... modern architecture has lost beauty and character. This is fuckin slop!

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by PHX-DUDE-MAN

What the fuck is this? Looks like a wet soggy fucking shoe box... modern architecture has lost beauty and character. This is fuckin slop!

Indeed Phx Dude-man, Indeed.

This will look better painted but the design was always pretty corny and lame.

[PHX-DUDE-MAN]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Indeed Phx Dude-man, Indeed.

This will look better painted but the design was always pretty corny and lame.

Okay fair point, I will wait to make a final judgement until it is painted and finished LOL. Sorry and thanks!

[muertecaza]

I was poking around the Tempe Historic Preservation Committee's agendas, and I saw that a quorum of the committee toured a property on Osborn in Phoenix at an address I didn't recognize. Apparently they were touring a recently restored home where L. Ron Hubbard lived. I had not heard about the restoration, which apparently was completed in May 2025. The pictures look like they did a really nice job. I'm glad they are preserving an interesting spot of Phoenix history:

https://www.scientology.org/scientology-today/events/osborn-road-grand-opening.html#slide19

[MiEncanto]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

I was poking around the Tempe Historic Preservation Committee's agendas, and I saw that a quorum of the committee toured a property on Osborn in Phoenix at an address I didn't recognize. Apparently they were touring a recently restored home where L. Ron Hubbard lived. I had not heard about the restoration, which apparently was completed in May 2025. The pictures look like they did a really nice job. I'm glad they are preserving an interesting spot of Phoenix history:

https://www.scientology.org/scientology-today/events/osborn-road-grand-opening.html#slide19

I had no idea Phoenix had such a connection to Scientology. That press release reads like Pravda. I wish we could be known for something less disgraceful.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

I had no idea Phoenix had such a connection to Scientology. That press release reads like Pravda. I wish we could be known for something less disgraceful.

The History of Phoenix is very tied in with the broader history of the southwest, LA, San Diego, Palm Springs, Vegas, Baja, Sanora

It isn't surprising to me at all, especially back in the age of the western there was a lot of Hollywood back and forth to Phoenix and Tucson

[azcats]

Starting with the scraping of my boyhood home - that I spent nearly the first third of life. Growing up on Mockingbird near the corner of Cheney. It was good enough for a family of seven...apparently, not anymore. They have scraped it and are building a humongous "house" that probably will just be big and expensive. These homes lack detail craftsmanship...warmth...or, elegance. Just - stark Ikea"ish" cheap looking interiors.

Originally Posted by Obadno

The History of Phoenix is very tied in with the broader history of the southwest, LA, San Diego, Palm Springs, Vegas, Baja, Sanora

It isn't surprising to me at all, especially back in the age of the western there was a lot of Hollywood back and forth to Phoenix and Tucson

[Forrester1998]

According to PBJ, some residents of Wittmann (an unincorporated CDP NW of Surprise) are seeking to block the BNSF rail project by incorporating as a town.

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news...-residents-to-incorporate-stop-bnsf.html

I guess to start, I dont think they have a real pathway to do this. The AZ constitution requires >1500 residents for a community to incorporate as a town and the Wittmann CDP only had 684 in the 2020 Census. You can probably scrounge 1500 residents from the totality of unincorporated areas in NW Maricopa but this would be piecing together a bunch of disparate communities, and the PBJ article stated that the estimated population within the proposed town boundaries is ~800. The 1500 residents requirement can only be waived down to 500 for communities within 10 miles of a National Park or Monument which is not the case for Wittmann. So unless a new park/monument is imminently going to be announced this seems like little more than posturing.

Im trying to hold my tongue because I dont know how coordinated the opposition effort is, but cases like this are the poster child for why delaying projects for community outreach can be so bad. Developer begins moving forward on (long-planned) project that would have a job impact in the thousands and economic benefit in the millions. Members of local community form an opposition of literally dozens, having some valid concerns but mostly attacking a strawman. Developer agrees to significant delays and concessions on the project in order to gain more community support. Then, during that delay, members of the opposition put forward a short sighted nuclear option, pulling out all the stops to prevent a development that would do magnitudes more good than harm.

If this incorporation effort weren't so doomed it would be genuinely maddening. Are these organizers under the impression that incorporation would result in things staying exactly the same except the BNSF project would be canceled? Its just not how incorporation works and the residents of the hypothetical new town would probably be a lot madder about the changes that incorporation brings than any adverse effects from the presence of BNSF.

Genuinely sorry for the rant, this is just a particularly insane anti-development circumstance!

[xymox]

Originally Posted by Forrester1998

According to PBJ, some residents of Wittmann (an unincorporated CDP NW of Surprise) are seeking to block the BNSF rail project by incorporating as a town.

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news...-residents-to-incorporate-stop-bnsf.html

I guess to start, I dont think they have a real pathway to do this. The AZ constitution requires >1500 residents for a community to incorporate as a town and the Wittmann CDP only had 684 in the 2020 Census. You can probably scrounge 1500 residents from the totality of unincorporated areas in NW Maricopa but this would be piecing together a bunch of disparate communities, and the PBJ article stated that the estimated population within the proposed town boundaries is ~800. The 1500 residents requirement can only be waived down to 500 for communities within 10 miles of a National Park or Monument which is not the case for Wittmann. So unless a new park/monument is imminently going to be announced this seems like little more than posturing.

Im trying to hold my tongue because I dont know how coordinated the opposition effort is, but cases like this are the poster child for why delaying projects for community outreach can be so bad. Developer begins moving forward on (long-planned) project that would have a job impact in the thousands and economic benefit in the millions. Members of local community form an opposition of literally dozens, having some valid concerns but mostly attacking a strawman. Developer agrees to significant delays and concessions on the project in order to gain more community support. Then, during that delay, members of the opposition put forward a short sighted nuclear option, pulling out all the stops to prevent a development that would do magnitudes more good than harm.

If this incorporation effort weren't so doomed it would be genuinely maddening. Are these organizers under the impression that incorporation would result in things staying exactly the same except the BNSF project would be canceled? Its just not how incorporation works and the residents of the hypothetical new town would probably be a lot madder about the changes that incorporation brings than any adverse effects from the presence of BNSF.

Genuinely sorry for the rant, this is just a particularly insane anti-development circumstance!

Well, another reason incorporation wouldn't work is the area is within the Surprise planning area. Which essentially means city of Surprise has to agree to this - they can veto the whole thing. Considering they are the ones to gain from this project moving forward, I don't see a scenario where they would let incorporation go through.

[azcats]

It has been a while...however, this may be what you're talking about. Not sure about Arizona...but, in California - there is a process when a municipality wants to incorporate an unincorporated county designated area. An L.A. County municipality started the process of incorporation - they argued that this county area was in their "sphere of influence." Meanwhile, on the opposite side of this county area - a larger municipality claimed that THEY were the dominate "Sphere of Influence." So, the residents took a vote - who would better serve them: Police response...fire...etc. The residents voted 3-1 in favor of the smaller community. Figuring the larger one would not care about their needs as the smaller one.

Originally Posted by xymox

Well, another reason incorporation wouldn't work is the area is within the Surprise planning area. Which essentially means city of Surprise has to agree to this - they can veto the whole thing. Considering they are the ones to gain from this project moving forward, I don't see a scenario where they would let incorporation go through.

[Obadno]

https://azbigmedia.com/business/tsmc-arizona-begins-construction-on-new-industrial-water-plant/

TSMC Arizona has broken ground and begun construction this month on a planned 15-acre Industrial Reclamation Water Plant (IRWP). The IRWP is designed to achieve “Near Zero Liquid Discharge” which means the company will have the ability to reuse nearly every drop of water. At start-up, the IRWP will reach 85% recycling rate with a plan to reach 90% or better. The start of construction on the IRWP reflects the company’s commitment to sustainable operations and coincides with World Water Week (August 24-28, 2025).

[combusean]

Channel 10 has these "Rewind" videos on YouTube where they show news reels from the KOOL days.

Thought this image of Midtown Phoenix from the Westward Ho in 1978 was kinda neat.

You can see the now demolished Malouf midrise building north of McDowell, the building on Central and Roosevelt before the reskin, the exciting vacant lot that was there for decades before Post Roosevelt Square, and that hotel in one of its earlier paint jobs.



The video is here and you can see a little bit of what the Malouf looked like with its repetitive small square windows in the clip about red light running, which I suppose is a decades-long Phoenix tradition.

[azcats]

Well...enjoyed watching that old video. Initial observations:

Most those reporters...other people in the report, etc. are either very old or dead now.

Maricopa County and Pinal County had all together - in late '70s - 1980 roughly, 1.5 million people. Out of that - practically nothing in Pinal County. There was no Maricopa. Just little old Casa Grande and Florence/ Coolidge. Pima County - 500,000. Fast forward 45 years later: FOUR (4) MILLION MORE PEOPLE IN MARICOPA COUNTY & PINAL COUNTY!!! You notice in the video - downtown Phoenix skyline and up Central Ave. hasn't really changed that much - considering 4 million more people? Because most of that four million has been spread out all over the Valley! Scottsdale/North Scottsdale - exploded. Southeast Valley - exploded...west Valley - exploded.

The Westward Ho: I can remember when they had cotillions in the ballroom. HA! Long gone.

1977...1978 - was in Tucson/UofA...don't remember that 1978 flooding in Phoenix. However, 1983 - huge October rainfall in Tucson from a typhoon in the Pacific came up through Mexico (as I remember - could be off). 6 inches of rain fell...people died...homes and buildings crashed into the Santa Cruz and Rillito River. Tucson was cut off from Phoenix - 'cause I-10 over the Gila River crashed into the floodwaters.

McCormick Ranch!!! Like yesterday. I remember when they started building McCormick Ranch in the early 70's. I got a summer job - maybe 1972...'73? at the new Inn at McCormick Ranch on Scottsdale Road. I'd just walk down Cheney (nothing was there in those days!) to Scottsdale Rd. - and WALK easily across - no rush - no traffic!

[builder03]

Biked around the Grant Park neighborhood a bit yesterday. Here's a photo of the development on 2nd Ave and Sherman:



I will never understand the choice of black exteriors in this climate.
I am curious how fast we will see more TOD/middle housing in this area with the opening of the South Central light rail extension.

I also checked out the Duppa Homestead, and it looks like they are in the process of installing a protective canopy over the structure (see the photos of new anchor bolts in the ground). Would love to see this historic structure restored and opened to the public. It is in a pretty miserable state currently.

[TllrSkyline-01]

Originally Posted by builder03

Biked around the Grant Park neighborhood a bit yesterday. Here's a photo of the development on 2nd Ave and Sherman:



I will never understand the choice of black exteriors in this climate.
I am curious how fast we will see more TOD/middle housing in this area with the opening of the South Central light rail extension.

I also checked out the Duppa Homestead, and it looks like they are in the process of installing a protective canopy over the structure (see the photos of new anchor bolts in the ground). Would love to see this historic structure restored and opened to the public. It is in a pretty miserable state currently.

UGH! - I have yet to personally see a 'black stucco' installation that looks good. Metal paneling yes, but this looks bad, just like the other experiment at 1st St and Portland....they will retain heat in the summer. I am thinking they decided to V.E. materials, and we are left with a poor choice of materials for this design.

[az_daniel]

Originally Posted by builder03

Biked around the Grant Park neighborhood a bit yesterday. Here's a photo of the development on 2nd Ave and Sherman:



I will never understand the choice of black exteriors in this climate.
I am curious how fast we will see more TOD/middle housing in this area with the opening of the South Central light rail extension.

my oh my. black exterior aside, what a genuinely awful building.

it is very cool to see some additional preservation efforts for the Duppa homestead though. It really should be made a bit more visible and accessible.

[Obadno]

First Retail tenants committing to Halo Vista (The land around TSMC to the north and East.

This entire area from Lake Pleasent to the I17 and from New River down to Peoria is going to be developed in the next 10 years. Crazy ! Currently the most underutilized land in the metro area.

https://ktar.com/arizona-business/costco-tsmc/5758000/

PHOENIX — The mixed-use development surrounding TSMC in north Phoenix is starting to take shape with new agreements in place for a Costco store and new hotels.

Mack Halo Vista LLC announced Courtyard Marriott and Residence Inn will join Costco and an additional auto mall at Halo Vista, a 2,300-acre, mixed-used development located near the junction at Interstate 17 and Dove Valley Road.

“Today’s confirmation of the first phase of hospitality and retail users marks an important milestone for Halo Vista because it will enable our project to deliver much-needed services in support of the growing TSMC ecosystem, while we simultaneously continue to focus on the horizontal infrastructure development that underpins the entire master plan,” President of Mack Halo Vista LLC. Chris Janson said in a release.

[azcats]

TSMC announced recently that they are hiring:

Starting pay: $50,000
No college degree necessary
No experience required - they will train!

With the additional $100 billion investment coming in from Taiwan headquarters, more construction...doubling employment.

Young people should look at this - for investment ...housing...employment ...get on the ground floor. They widened I-17...and are going to connect the 303 to I-17.

Originally Posted by Obadno

First Retail tenants committing to Halo Vista (The land around TSMC to the north and East.

This entire area from Lake Pleasent to the I17 and from New River down to Peoria is going to be developed in the next 10 years. Crazy ! Currently the most underutilized land in the metro area.

https://ktar.com/arizona-business/costco-tsmc/5758000/

[MiEncanto]

Originally Posted by azcats

TSMC announced recently that they are hiring:

Starting pay: $50,000
No college degree necessary
No experience required - they will train!

With the additional $100 billion investment coming in from Taiwan headquarters, more construction...doubling employment.

Young people should look at this - for investment ...housing...employment ...get on the ground floor. They widened I-17...and are going to connect the 303 to I-17.

Here's the ADOT info on the 303/I-17 improvements. https://azdot.gov/projects/central-distr...-lake-pleasant-parkway-i-17-improvements

Add a third general-purpose lane to Loop 303 in each direction between Lake Pleasant Parkway and I-17

Construct new bridges to accommodate a future traffic interchange at 67th Ave

Build direct connecting ramps at the I-17/Loop 303 system interchange
Widen northbound I-17 exit ramp at Sonoran Desert Drive


Residential areas like Vistancia are going to continue to grow. It appears El Mirage road will continue north to connect that area to the 74. https://peoriaaz.novusagenda.com/agendapublic/CoverSheet.aspx?ItemID=6952&MeetingID=940

The Lake Pleasant area will make for really nice neighborhoods; think the new Ahwatukee.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

<snip>
Residential areas like Vistancia are going to continue to grow. It appears El Mirage road will continue north to connect that area to the 74. https://peoriaaz.novusagenda.com/agendapublic/CoverSheet.aspx?ItemID=6952&MeetingID=940

The Lake Pleasant area will make for really nice neighborhoods; think the new Ahwatukee.

This area has been a hidden gem for the past 20 years. I'd argue that right now there's too much congestion in the area - but maybe as more areas for commercial/grocery, etc build out that will spread out a bit more.

But as far as finding a nice quiet place with beautiful desert vistas - for the price you can't beat this area of north Peoria (West Wing Mountain/Vistancia). Hoping to move back there soon...