Canadian Skyline Thread III

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

So city vs city arguments are justified then?

My response had nothing to do with whether or not the discussion was justified which is up to the mods and admins to decide. My response was to the idea that it was funny or absurd for people to compare smaller cities because they're smaller which comes across as condescending. Especially considering that despite their size, both Halifax and Victoria stand up well to most secondary cities across the country including ones that are larger.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by logan5

I did post a retraction of sorts, in case you didn't notice.

Thanks. I do genuinely appreciate that. I was talking about others.

And like I said, I'm not trying to be mean. My ideal would be to be able to have discussions without the outbursts. IMO, SSP Canada is light on urbanism discussion these days, and I already feel like I cannot accurately comment on the city I live in without reprisal (only positive comments are allowed).

I'd guess I've spent 30-40 hours walking around the inner parts of Victoria on a dozen or so trips and I've driven around the major parts and sites of the metro area. I have relatives on the island so I'm over there a few times a year. Most BC forumers telling me I am making stuff up about it and getting offended by comparisons likely have not been to Halifax at all.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

My response had nothing to do with whether or not the discussion was justified which is up to the mods and admins to decide. My response was to the idea that it was funny or absurd for people to compare smaller cities because they're smaller which comes across as condescending. Especially considering that despite their size, both Halifax and Victoria stand up well to most secondary cities across the country including ones that are larger.

So you are arguing for the sake of arguing? Any city vs city argument is stupid, regardless of the size. This is why I rarely come on this site anymore, people literally argue about anything and everything. Including arguing about arguing....

[koops65]

My problem with all this is that it has nothing to do with skylines... take it to another thread please.

[zoomer]

Originally Posted by logan5

Was just in Calgary. One thing I wish Vancouver did that Calgary does for patio season, is they install temporary sidewalks so that bar and restaurant patios can be extended and remain as one contiguous patio.

In Vancouver, a temporary patio is placed in the street, so that the patio is split in 2 by the sidewalk, and you also have cars zooming by 3 feet away from where you are sitting.

They do this is Edmonton too - not sure how I feel about it. As a pedestrian it feels as if I'm made to be a second class citizen and that the rights of a private restaurant matter more as it's intruding on the public sidewalk and I have to walk right next to traffic, even more so than if I was walking on the inner part of the sidewalk with more protections. The sidewalk is made for pedestrians and it would be nice to walk in a straight protected line. However... I don't really like sitting in those restaurant patios built onto the road either. Not exactly an enjoyable experience and it wouldn't take much for a drunk or confused person to plow into that and take out a bunch of diners.

Ideally we build wider sidewalks with bike paths if pedestrian/retail/restaurant use is important enough in the area instead of having the primacy of private vehicle transportation take that away from the residents and visitors to an urban area.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by koops65

My problem with all this is that it has nothing to do with skylines... take it to another thread please.

Hear hear


Temporary patios on the sidewalks, with the boardwalk closing a parking lane is fantastic! especially in such a car oriented city as this. The inner city and downtown especially, is where the pedestrian realm should completely dominate.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by koops65

My problem with all this is that it has nothing to do with skylines... take it to another thread please.

It's the skylines and urbanism in Canada thread. It's always been like that.

[zoomer]

I agree inner city and downtown should be completely dominated by the pedestrian realm, so why not make the sidewalks wider to accommodate both restaurants and the regular walking path? Even if that means taking away a parking lane or heaven forbid a lane of traffic. I know people will talk about seasonal use, but for a lot of cities people are sitting outside for most of the year (heat lanterns) and even if there isn't the demand most sidewalks in Canada just aren't wide enough as it is. The boardwalks feel like a compromise. I dunno, maybe that's just where we're at as a country.

Here's a less than ideal example, I mean it saves money for sure. From Edmonton - as a pedestrian I have to weave out into potential oncoming traffic protected by.. plastic orange cones while those folks who pay to 'rent' out the sidewalk from a private company get to claim this public land for as long as they sit there. Now before anyone gets their knickers in a knot, I'm just messing around with the theoretical full counter argument, lol - and I'd pay to sit in a patio like this! Just trying to show it's a compromise that maybe we don't need to make.



Extended Patio by Mack Male, on Flickr

Here's an nice Calgary example, hey just like Europe! Obviously a wide enough sidewalk and that seating area is really wide too, most Victoria patios are about half that width.



Downtown Calgary restaurant patio by Jon Dev, on Flickr

Back to skylines.. notice anything different from this Vancouver picture uploaded to Flickr this July? Gorgeous lighting by the way, and love the red United Way flags.



Cambie Street by Wayne, on Flickr

The photo was taken on December 18, 2013! I'm trying to think if that view has changed much..? Based on the same narrow and viewed in view/perspective.

Here's a view of the opposite direction from December 3, 2016:



Snapchatting by Clayton Perry, on Flickr

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by zoomer

Back to skylines.. notice anything different from this Vancouver picture uploaded to Flickr this July? Gorgeous lighting by the way, and love the red United Way flags.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2reUhLY]

Wish I noticed something different, all I see is green glass condos (and the red banners on the light poles). So glad Vancouver decided the buildings don't need to match the ocean anymore. The new architecture with a variety of cladding and glazing looks great, this looks monotonous and master planned. The new casino / hotel beside BC place for example, it almost stands out because the colour.
Also, just need to point out the Calgary example is the single street in this city that we actually do it properly. Calgary does a shit job of the pedestrian realm, aside from the temporary patios in the summer.

[mcminsen]

Downtown Vancouver as seen from Cambie/City Hall, Aug.12 '25, my pics

[shappy]

Originally Posted by zoomer

I agree inner city and downtown should be completely dominated by the pedestrian realm, so why not make the sidewalks wider to accommodate both restaurants and the regular walking path? Even if that means taking away a parking lane or heaven forbid a lane of traffic. I know people will talk about seasonal use, but for a lot of cities people are sitting outside for most of the year (heat lanterns) and even if there isn't the demand most sidewalks in Canada just aren't wide enough as it is. The boardwalks feel like a compromise. I dunno, maybe that's just where we're at as a country.

Here's a less than ideal example, I mean it saves money for sure. From Edmonton - as a pedestrian I have to weave out into potential oncoming traffic protected by.. plastic orange cones while those folks who pay to 'rent' out the sidewalk from a private company get to claim this public land for as long as they sit there. Now before anyone gets their knickers in a knot, I'm just messing around with the theoretical full counter argument, lol - and I'd pay to sit in a patio like this! Just trying to show it's a compromise that maybe we don't need to make.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2jgyabE]

That is pretty bad. Is there a reason behind why it is done this way? Perhaps related to liquor laws.

I think the most comfortable are setups like these. They may take up a bit of space on the sidewalk but it's minimal.



These types are also popular in Toronto, where the patio is setup on a parking lane. They're flanked by concrete barricades on both sides.

[MonkeyRonin]

Yeah, not a fan of that pylon patio setup - curb-side patios are much preferred. I don't mind the patios being split in 2, as it creates a very animated sidewalk experience when passing through one.

The orange pylons just make it look cheap & temporary too. It also presents an accessibility issue as they'd have to be ramped at the curb (appears to not be an issue in that Edmonton example though); and is a much bigger risk to pedestrians - errant drivers are more likely to take out a couple plastic pylons than they are to drive into a wooden patio structure.

[craner]

More skyline photos please

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

My response had nothing to do with whether or not the discussion was justified which is up to the mods and admins to decide. My response was to the idea that it was funny or absurd for people to compare smaller cities because they're smaller which comes across as condescending. Especially considering that despite their size, both Halifax and Victoria stand up well to most secondary cities across the country including ones that are larger.

Yeah, I'm not sure if my impression is wrong or not but, I get the impression that smaller places and particularly smaller places with low population growth are all in dire stratis. It certainly holds true for Toronto. It's ingrained in every Torontonian from kindergarden onwards that the city's destination is among the most populous urban centers in the world or failure.

There is truth to much larger populations when you consider the tax and debt burden of the average Ontarians. That burden is growing at least equally as fast as the number of taxpayers.

Jobs are consideration too but, I don't think the average person that disposable income can increase even with a reduction on salary. High influx of people to Toronto creates a ridiculously competitive employers market with strained supply from rapid growth that makes things more expensive.

The decent overall wage growth figures for the last decade is almost exclusively from the public sector which also has rapidly expanded employment. The majority is grey wealth as taxes than profits pay those salaries.

There's a lot of excitement in towns and smaller cities as many are experience unprecedented housing growth. However, too much of the conversation is centred on height. It's to be expected being a skyline form and impressions of falling behind the big investor markets in that category. I find that quality in all categories of urban development and appreciation of the existing smaller scale built form barely getting attention troubling when it comes to height. (eventhough the vast majority of forumers can't change things)

[TorontoDrew]

Those roadside patios are a great way to give an establishment more summer revenue when the sidewalk they are on isn't wide enough to accommodate a patio. These are leftovers from COVID. Personally, I hate sitting on them on some streets, like Queen or the Danforth, but on small side streets, like Ossington, they work well.

I'll take less-than-perfect patios over no patios.

[Coldrsx]

[someone123]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Yeah, I'm not sure if my impression is wrong or not but, I get the impression that smaller places and particularly smaller places with low population growth are all in dire stratis. It certainly holds true for Toronto. It's ingrained in every Torontonian from kindergarden onwards that the city's destination is among the most populous urban centers in the world or failure.

I notice that people tend to look at this in relative terms but it's really certain characteristics that matter, like having jobs (getting easier in some cases with remote work) or health care (now people expect complex care) or education (post-secondary). The "small" places in Canada are much larger and more developed than they were in 1970, and some places that used to be small aren't really anymore. There are diminishing returns in growth so the "payoff" of a city going from 5 million to 10 million is less than 500k to 1M, generally.

[Calgarian]

Great Edmonton shot, love the Oliver (or whatever it's called now) skyline! Needs more modern looking buildings though...

[giallo]

Originally Posted by craner

More skyline photos please

Sure!

North Vancouver





West Vancouver





Vancouver













Kelowna

[Calgarian]

Great Kelowna shot, wonder how long it will take for the downtown and landmark skylines to connect...