Atlantic Canada airport thread

[Bishop2047]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Agree that SJ is getting the short end of the stick on this one. All these cities are getting government subsidized flights.....except Saint John. Seems pretty unequitable considering it's public money.

OTOH None of these routes are ones I could ever imagine wanting to fly so from a personal POV............. meh

My only thought and I can not find anything on this. Did SJ get government funds for the Pascan route(s)?

[q12]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Agree that SJ is getting the short end of the stick on this one. All these cities are getting government subsidized flights.....except Saint John. Seems pretty unequitable considering it's public money.

Looks like N.B. gov't is contributing the least amount of money of the three provinces...

The three-year pilot project will be jointly funded by ACOA, the provinces, and the regional airports, including:

Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency – $5 Million

Provincial Governments - $4.2 Million

Province of PEI - $840,000
Province of Nova Scotia - $2.9 Million
Province of New Brunswick - $458,000

http://https://www.princeedwardisland.ca...ty-and-growth-opportunities-between-nova

[q12]

“PAL Airlines is proud to partner with the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency and the Governments of Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and New Brunswick on this exciting initiative. Our deep roots in Atlantic Canada have taught us the vital importance of connectivity in the region, both on to national carrier networks and between the diverse communities we call home. We’re looking forward to working closely with our partners to ensure this service is a success, offering new travel options, seamless connections and Aeroplan collection and redemption options to our customers for travel in the Maritimes.”– Calvin Ash, President, PAL Airlines

https://www.princeedwardisland.ca/en/new...ty-and-growth-opportunities-between-nova

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by Bishop2047

My only thought and I can not find anything on this. Did SJ get government funds for the Pascan route(s)?

Pretty sure the answer is no. I have never read or seen anything to suggest that Pascan's service to YSJ is being subsidized by any level of government.

[dhottawa729]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Pretty sure the answer is no. I have never read or seen anything to suggest that Pascan's service to YSJ is being subsidized by any level of government.

This is incredibly unfair to Pascan then as they’d sunk money into trying to make Bathurst and Sydney work and likely weren’t making much money from YSJ for the first little while either. They basically piloted this out of their own pockets and now PAL is getting a free ride, which also might steal passengers from Pascan, even if only a very very small amount of them. It’s the principle. In fairness, fPasca, YSJ and Bathurst should be retroactively reimbursed for their investment in Atlantic Canada. I’m so frustrated that Saint John continues to get shafted, even by their own government whose mandate via the Provincial Air Sector Strategy is to ensure the success of the 3 main airports for growth of the 3 primary provincial economies. I’m really tired of this and someone with clout should do something! I just drove 12 hours both ways with my family to visit SJ for a 4-day weekend because I REFUSE to support YFC and YQM if it’s just going to drive some hidden agenda to make YSJ obsolete all while inadvertently proving the other airports are sufficient to handle SJ’s needs. SJ drives a huge part of the maritime economy but just gets treated like crap all the time. Uptown is so amazing now- I love it!!!

[Bishop2047]

I am disappointed as well. Obviously the argument some will make is that SJ can not sustain two direct flights to Halifax, but perhaps a subsidy is coming to support that route. That would be the most simple way of meeting the mandate, while not burning the airline that stuck their neck out without a subsidy.

Also I primarily fly YFC but have gone through SJ. So I have helped "artificially boost numbers". Personally I want all the maritime airports to do well.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by q12

Looks like N.B. gov't is contributing the least amount of money of the three provinces...

The three-year pilot project will be jointly funded by ACOA, the provinces, and the regional airports, including:

Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency – $5 Million

Provincial Governments - $4.2 Million

Province of PEI - $840,000
Province of Nova Scotia - $2.9 Million
Province of New Brunswick - $458,000

http://https://www.princeedwardisland.ca...ty-and-growth-opportunities-between-nova

Nova Scotia may have contributed the most to this trial project, but, they stand to gain the most too.

- YHZ will be the hub for the PAL Maritime route network. The whole scheme is designed to drive traffic to YHZ, and to support connecting traffic which might lead to more profitability for transcontinenyal and international flights originating at that airport.
- PAL will be providing a needed intraprovincial route from Sydney to Halifax, which will benefit Cape Breton tremendously. It is in Nova Scotia's interest to fund this route.

[MonctonRad]

Is this route map correct?

Does this mean that passengers from YQM will have to fly via YFC to get to YHZ???

Reading the press release carefully, it sounds as if the plan is for a single flight per day on all of these three new routes. This could mean that if your intent is to connect to another flight in Halifax, you could end up spending many hours trapped in the airport terminal at Halifax Stanfield. Flight frequency should be no less than 2x daily

EDIT - The flights will be 2x daily from Charlottetown, but daily from Moncton/Fredericton and Sydney.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Nova Scotia may have contributed the most to this trial project, but, they stand to gain the most too.

- YHZ will be the hub for the PAL Maritime route network. The whole scheme is designed to drive traffic to YHZ, and to support connecting traffic which might lead to more profitability for transcontinenyal and international flights originating at that airport.
- PAL will be providing a needed intraprovincial route from Sydney to Halifax, which will benefit Cape Breton tremendously. It is in Nova Scotia's interest to fund this route.

I agree that NS will reap the lion's share of the benefits from this scheme, followed by PEI. To be honest, in some ways I'm not sure why NB is even involved. YFC-YHZ makes some sense but Moncton, especially if YQM-YHZ has a stop in YFC, seems a stretch.

Did AC (or Jazz) ever run several flights a day from Moncton to Halifax the way they did from YSJ before the pandemic? Was there ever a business case for this route?

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I agree that NS will reap the lion's share of the benefits from this scheme, followed by PEI. To be honest, in some ways I'm not sure why NB is even involved. YFC-YHZ makes some sense but Moncton, especially if YQM-YHZ has a stop in YFC, seems a stretch.

Did AC (or Jazz) ever run several flights a day from Moncton to Halifax the way they did from YSJ before the pandemic? Was there ever a business case for this route?

Agreed, if this has any success, Halifax is the winner here. Seems a pretty clear attempt to centralize flights in Halifax. I suspect YSJ not included as they already have daily service to Halifax.

[q12]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Did AC (or Jazz) ever run several flights a day from Moncton to Halifax the way they did from YSJ before the pandemic? Was there ever a business case for this route?

Yes Moncton to Halifax operated 3x daily with Air Canada Express pre-pandemic.

Here is a Air Canada Timetable from the summer 2019:

[q12]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

Agreed, if this has any success, Halifax is the winner here.

What did Halifax win? I think the Maritime cities have improved their connectivity to the region's International Airport Hub.

Originally Posted by nwalbert

Agreed, if this has any success, Halifax is the winner here. Seems a pretty clear attempt to centralize flights in Halifax.

There is no new attempt to centralize. YHZ has always been a central Hub in Atlantic Canada.

[q12]

Halifax's departures list for this Saturday:

[MonctonRad]

Yes, I remember the 3x daily Air Canada service from YQM-YHZ. It was on a tiny puddle jumper.

I support the idea of re-establsihing a Maritime route network. This makes sense, especially for business travellers. If a company is thinking of creating a branch plant or office in a city in NB or PEI, they will check out flight connections as a part of their vetting process to see how easy it is for employee travel. The easier it is, the more favourably they might consider that location.

Connections however need to make sense. They should be direct (if possible) and relatively frequent. This is why the loop from YHZ-YQM-YFC makes little sense. You are making the route indirect and longer than necessary. The single daily flight on this loop is also very problematic. If a businessman from Boston wants to make connections to Moncton via Halifax, he will not want to cool his heels in the terminal at Halifax Stanfield for six hours waiting for the connecting flight. He will have just lost an entire business day.

Nothing less than 2x daily service is acceptable (preferably 3x daily), and the connecting flight should be direct. Nothing else will do.

I blame this on Susan Holt and the governing NB Liberal Party. Their support of this plan seems half hearted at best. They are contributing the least amount of money to this project, and, subsequently, we are getting the shittiest service. PEI knows better. This is why Charlottetown is getting 2x daily direct service. They know what they are doing. Susuan Holt does not.

[q12]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Nothing less than 2x daily service is acceptable (preferably 3x daily), and the connecting flight should be direct. Nothing else will do.

I completely agree.

The one positive though with the size of the total subsidy (nearly $10 million) it's very possible these flights are quite cheap which in turn could prove demand is there for the return of the original Air Canada 3x or 4x non-stop frequency.

[MonctonRad]

Having thrown my support behind a return of regional air service to YHZ, I feel compelled to state that I do not want to see this happen at the risk of loss of direct service to other Canadian cities.

For example, I really appreciate the fact that Moncton has service to Calgary and Edmonton via WestJet, and to St. John's via PAL. There is a risk that if passengers start to use connecting flights to YHZ to get to western Canadian destinations such as Calgary, then WestJet might simply choose to replace the Moncton direct flight with a fifth daily direct flight from Halifax. In such a case, YQM would end up losing in the bargain.

We must tread carefully.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by q12

What did Halifax win? I think the Maritime cities have improved their connectivity to the region's International Airport Hub.



There is no new attempt to centralize. YHZ has always been a central Hub in Atlantic Canada.

Yes, I 100% agree, but obviously more ways to get there makes it even more central.

Well, if there is any benefit to any city in this, its more/easier ways to get to Halifax. ie: Halifax got more benefit than anyone out of this announcement, not that I think its significant.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Having thrown my support behind a return of regional air service to YHZ, I feel compelled to state that I do not want to see this happen at the risk of loss of direct service to other Canadian cities.

For example, I really appreciate the fact that Moncton has service to Calgary and Edmonton via WestJet, and to St. John's via PAL. There is a risk that if passengers start to use connecting flights to YHZ to get to western Canadian destinations such as Calgary, then WestJet might simply choose to replace the Moncton direct flight with a fifth daily direct flight from Halifax. In such a case, YQM would end up losing in the bargain.

We must tread carefully.

I think this announcement certainly hurts Moncton's ability to maintain current flight schedule much more than helps it unfortunately.

[Bishop2047]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Having thrown my support behind a return of regional air service to YHZ, I feel compelled to state that I do not want to see this happen at the risk of loss of direct service to other Canadian cities.

For example, I really appreciate the fact that Moncton has service to Calgary and Edmonton via WestJet, and to St. John's via PAL. There is a risk that if passengers start to use connecting flights to YHZ to get to western Canadian destinations such as Calgary, then WestJet might simply choose to replace the Moncton direct flight with a fifth daily direct flight from Halifax. In such a case, YQM would end up losing in the bargain.

We must tread carefully.

I don't think this will rob too many passengers for those direct flights, and being with PAL most will only use these flights for direct connections. If it was AC I would be a bit more concerned that they would try to drive folks to their preferred choice. Pal may try to reduce other Moncton routes and/or push them through Halifax though.

One benefit that I miss about the AC regional flight was that when weather or cancellations occured, we had more options to get home. I will never fly to Halifax to see the old in-laws, or for business, but having the option when I need to get home and all the direct flights are cancelled could be a life saver.

[Pugsley]

I wonder if these will in fact operate as "PAL Airlines" flights or Air Canada Express. The primary operators of Air Canada Express flights are Jazz Aviation and PAL Airlines - so this could be service that is operated by PAL, but actually Air Canada Express flights with easier connecting service onto Air Canada flights out of Halifax - like London Heathrow, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, St. John's, Gander, Deer Lake, Vancouver, Boston, Newark, Orlando, Tampa, Cancun, Punta Cana, and Montego Bay.

I just wish Saint John was also in this mix if the above is the reality.