noirish Los Angeles

[Flyingwedge]

I thought this view looking south on North Los Angeles St. was worth a closer look. The photo is dated c. 1890, but I think that can
be narrowed to Summer 1886. On the extreme right is the Arcadia Block (1859-1927), and on the extreme left is the Bell Block
(or Row; 1845-1892). In the distance to the left of center is the bell tower and cupola of the Cathedral of St. Vibiana (1876). The
just-discernible trolley tracks across the bottom of the photo lead on the left to Aliso Street and on the right to Arcadia Street:



1989-0528 @ CA State Library, William H. Fletcher Collection


Here's the block of Los Angeles St. we see best in the photo, down to Commercial Street, in 1888. The photo does not show the north
end (nos. 235-41) of the Arcadia Block. The two-story Bell Block, with balconies on both sides, is on the SEC of Los Angeles and Aliso:



1888 Sanborn Map @ ProQuest via LA Public Library


Looking a little closer . . . I don't know what that is in the lower left corner. Among the stores is that of Marcus W. Childs (Orzo's brother).
He sold his business at 209-211 N. Los Angeles on May 10, 1886, and by July 11, 1886, Julius Viereck was operating there as "Successor
to M. W. Childs."




This is the Arcadia Block to the right of "Wholesale Wooden & Willow Ware." The first Los Angeles Printing Co. reference I could find was
August 6, 1886 (Burton-Taney Printing was at 231 N. Los Angeles in 1885), and the first mention of a Bull at 233 N. Los Angeles I saw
was September 7, 1886. So, I figure this interesting street scene was captured around Summer 1886.

[odinthor]

That's a great pic I hadn't seen before. I wonder if the mysterious object (which has a little brother a few feet away in the pic) has something to do with the public hay scales, which were located at that intersection:

“[T]he public hay-scale was an institution, having been constructed by Francis Mellus in the dim past [Mellus arrived in L.A. ca. 1847-1848; as the writer, Newmark, arrived in 1853, the past couldn’t have been terribly dim]. Exposed to the elements, it stood alone out in the center of Los Angeles Street, somewhat south of Aliso; and in the lawless times of the young town was a silent witness to the numerous crimes perpetrated in the adjacent Calle de Los Negros. Onto its rough platform the neighboring farmers drove their heavy loads, often waiting an hour or two for the arrival of the owner, who alone had the key to its mysterious mechanism” (Newmark); October 30, 1858, published (Los Angeles Star): “Hay Scales. Great Public Accommodation. The Public can have the use of the Hay Scales just erected, in front of subscriber’s store, for weighing Hay, and all other articles of merchandize, at the rate of 50 cents per load. Single animals weighed—25 cents. F. Mellus, junction of Main and Spring streets”; July 21, 1860, published (Los Angeles Star): “The public hay scales, at present located at the junction of Spring and Main streets, are to be removed to Arcadia Square” (the area in front of the Arcadia Block at the junction of Los Angeles St. and Aliso St., also known as Broad Place)". —Notes on Old Los Angeles, by Brent C. Dickerson, vol. 3, p. 127.

[Flyingwedge]

Thanks! I was wondering why there were so many hay-transporting conveyances in the street.

[odinthor]

I had no idea of what the appearance of hay scales might be, so I have looked into it. This gives an idea:


https://www.abebooks.com/Fairbanks-Standard-Railroad-Hay-Coal-Platform/31423186415/bd

A close-up:


https://www.abebooks.com/Fairbanks-Standard-Railroad-Hay-Coal-Platform/31423186415/bd

A diagram:


https://winehistoryproject.org/platform-scale/

Mellus probably kept some portion of the device, along with the key, under the counter in his office.

[Flyingwedge]

Yes! There appears to be the outline of some kind of platform in the street. Good call, Odinthor!

[ethereal_reality]

.
Good eye(s) you two...(odinthor and Flyingwedge) .. You two are Sleuth-Sayers.



MYSTERY location(s)


There are two slides dated 1958 currently on eBay.



#1


eBay




#2


eBay


I'd love to know -where in the hills- these two slides were taken.






Added bonus.

A closer look at the young mother and son.





Get to work minions! (even though I think it's next to impossible to figure it out) . . .not enough clues.

.

[riichkay]

Here's a snapshot courtesy of flickr dated May 1949....these folks are unidentified, they are walking past 340-342 N. Genesee Ave.




gsv

[Flyingwedge]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

.

MYSTERY location


eBay
.

That's the same house in both photos, 1785 N. Orange Grove, built in 1950. The only time Google Street View has gone by was May 2011.



GSV

[ethereal_reality]

.
YOU FOUND IT!

Thanks, Flyingwedge.

I'm not even going to ask you how you did it.


. .unless you really want to tell me.

[ethereal_reality]

.
I believe this is the same house!

It's newly listed by the same eBay seller.


eBay

Even though the front door looks a little different.

.

[Flyingwedge]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

.

Thanks, Flyingwedge.

I'm not even going to ask you how you did it.

. .unless you really want to tell me.

It looked like Hollywood Hills, but I didn't think it was findable either. However, the photos of the house showed:
- the house didn't appear to be THAT far up in the hills
- there was a straight stretch of street leading to a sharp left-hand turn
- the house seemed to be built into the switchback of the street
- it was an older part of town, judging by the hillside house and retaining wall above
With that in mind, I poked around a bit on Google Map aerial view.
Just when I was about to give up, there it was. I was stunned. This was the expression on my face:

[westcork]

Originally Posted by odinthor

That's a great pic I hadn't seen before. I wonder if the mysterious object (which has a little brother a few feet away in the pic) has something to do with the public hay scales, which were located at that intersection:

“[T]he public hay-scale was an institution, having been constructed by Francis Mellus in the dim past [Mellus arrived in L.A. ca. 1847-1848; as the writer, Newmark, arrived in 1853, the past couldn’t have been terribly dim]. Exposed to the elements, it stood alone out in the center of Los Angeles Street, somewhat south of Aliso; and in the lawless times of the young town was a silent witness to the numerous crimes perpetrated in the adjacent Calle de Los Negros. Onto its rough platform the neighboring farmers drove their heavy loads, often waiting an hour or two for the arrival of the owner, who alone had the key to its mysterious mechanism” (Newmark); October 30, 1858, published (Los Angeles Star): “Hay Scales. Great Public Accommodation. The Public can have the use of the Hay Scales just erected, in front of subscriber’s store, for weighing Hay, and all other articles of merchandize, at the rate of 50 cents per load. Single animals weighed—25 cents. F. Mellus, junction of Main and Spring streets”; July 21, 1860, published (Los Angeles Star): “The public hay scales, at present located at the junction of Spring and Main streets, are to be removed to Arcadia Square” (the area in front of the Arcadia Block at the junction of Los Angeles St. and Aliso St., also known as Broad Place)". —Notes on Old Los Angeles, by Brent C. Dickerson, vol. 3, p. 127.

Thank you so much for this. I've been studying the Chinese Massacre from primary sources for years. Many of the witnesses said they were watching from the Hay scales. But I could not pin point the location. You had a post on page 2837 speculating it was in front of Beaudry's building which seems about right. But this is much more conclusive.

[odinthor]

Thanks westcork! Research is always a matter of continuous narrowing down and adjusting the focus. A newly-seen tiny oddity--or even familiarity--which might just happen to get into the vista of a heretofore unexamined picture can be the key to finally nailing down some stray fact formerly known only vaguely. Sometimes we have the door without the key, sometimes we have the key without the door; it's a great feeling when we can finally get the door and the key together.

[Martin Pal]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

#1


eBay
[...]
_______________________________________________________________

It doesn't appear that the precarious house in the photo (on the road above) is still there, though there's one that looks similarly precarious now, one of those houses seemingly supported by beams. (GSV is also blocking out/pixelating something in that area.)
GSV

[ProphetM]

Originally Posted by Martin Pal

It doesn't appear that the precarious house in the photo (on the road above) is still there, though there's one that looks similarly precarious now, one of those houses seemingly supported by beams. (GSV is also blocking out/pixelating something in that area.)
GSV

No, it's still there - at 7840 Fareholm Drive. But it's one of those annoying 'blur out my house specifically' deals. From overhead on Google Maps you can make out that the stick-supported house is in between the Spanish style house and our original subject. You can make out the red tile roof, but also the house has seemingly doubled in size, having expanded towards camera, and the new section is flat-roofed.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/JGFT2u89hu47x4bK7

[Scott Charles]

Originally Posted by ProphetM

No, it's still there - at 7840 Fareholm Drive. But it's one of those annoying 'blur out my house specifically' deals.

Courtesy of Apple Maps (Mac app, so no URL):

[Martin Pal]

Thanks ProphetM and Scott Charles. That road, in the second to last photo above, looks like it's been through the ringer.

[Martin Pal]

On Martin Turnbull's Garden of Allah website today he posted this photo of a location on Hollywood Blvd. that I can find no other information on.
Has anyone else ever heard of "Treat's System Hamburgers"... System? It's located in the Cherokee Building on Hollywood Blvd. and Cherokee.


Martin Turnbull

The photo has a specific date of June 15, 1951, which would be a year into the Korean War, which probably explains the soldiers on the street and a
sailor inside at the counter. It has a sign indicating it was open 24 hours, which I think is rather rare in most of Los Angeles.

In looking at the photo I thought maybe some of the neon sign wasn't working because the "at" of Treat's is brighter, but a person noted that he was
aware of this place in the mid-'50s and that the TREAT'S part of the sign would flash so it was saying EAT then AT then TREAT'S!

[Scott Charles]

Originally Posted by Martin Pal

It has a sign indicating it was open 24 hours, which I think is rather rare in most of Los Angeles.

Places that are open 24 hours are rare in LA, even to this day (though there were more before COVID), but all the way back in 1951..? I'd imagine that was almost unheard of..!

Two recently-departed 24 hour restaurants: the Pacific Dining Car and the Original Pantry.

[HossC]

Treat's System Hamburgers wasn't there long. The Cherokee Building is on the right immediately at the start of this 1953 video. I think the sign says "Mann's Restaurant".

• Video Link