Largest Canadian cities since 1921

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Docere

For historical consistency, I'm using CMAs even though a this point Toronto and Hamilton are really one metro area.

The Burlington Skyway really feels like a physical separation barrier to being part of the GTA. But also helps Hamilton feel more connected with Niagara with Grimsby as the connection piece.
Just my 2 cents

Although in the future when Niagara gets all day GO Train service to downtown Toronto then it will start to feel like closer to one large blob or Octopus of Toronto with Niagara as its southeast tentacle

[Docere]

Greater city population, 1941:

1. Montreal 1,139,921
2. Toronto 900,491
3. Vancouver 351,491
4. Winnipeg 290,540
5. Ottawa 215,022
6. Quebec 200,814
7. Hamilton 176,110
8. Windsor 121,112
9. Halifax 91,829
10. London 86,740

https://www65.statcan.gc.ca/acyb02/1947/acyb02_19470103003-eng.htm

No "greater" Edmonton or Calgary in 1941. Edmonton city (93,817), Calgary (88,904). Calgary, Edmonton, Halifax and London are all similar sized.

[Docere]

Two US cities had more than 100,000 Canadians and Newfoundlanders (birth or parentage) in 1930: Boston-Cambridge and Detroit.

Canadian population

Detroit 175,658 11.2%
Boston-Cambridge 120,052 13.4%
New York 85,903 1.2%
Chicago 74,350 2.2%
Los Angeles 59,931 4.8%
Buffalo 36,006 6.2%
Seattle 33,011 9%

[Docere]

[deleted]

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Canada's legacy cities have been blessed by the fact that they haven't had a sunbelt to compete with since the widespread adoption of AC roughly 7 decades ago.

No sunbelt, but with Edmonton and Calgary surging in the back half of the 20th century, Canada had a bit of a rise of the West which isn't a bad thing at all. That didn't affect the status of the 2 legacy cities which retained their status.

What I find interesting is that a metro like Ottawa/Gat surpassed what Montreal was in the early 50's, and is fast catching up to what metro Toronto was in the early 60's, and Ottawa is only now getting a comprehensive light rail system, which includes a partial subway system (now built). I think both Montreal and Toronto already had substantial metro systems when they were Ottawa sized metros.

[muppet]

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[Docere]

Originally Posted by Razor

No sunbelt, but with Edmonton and Calgary surging in the back half of the 20th century, Canada had a bit of a rise of the West which isn't a bad thing at all. That didn't affect the status of the 2 legacy cities which retained their status.

What I find interesting is that a metro like Ottawa/Gat surpassed what Montreal was in the early 50's, and is fast catching up to what metro Toronto was in the early 60's, and Ottawa is only now getting a comprehensive light rail system, which includes a partial subway system (now built). I think both Montreal and Toronto already had substantial metro systems when they were Ottawa sized metros.

Toronto's subway opened in 1954 when it was a city of just over 1 million (but over a smaller land area than Ottawa now, obviously). Montreal's subway opened in 1966, just in time for Expo '67, so Montreal was already quite a bit city by then.

[Innsertnamehere]

Ottawa is also building it's metro network out quite quickly - it's going to have 58km of rapid transit in a few years - Toronto didn't hit that much until the Scarborough RT opened in 1985 when it had a metro population of over 3 million.

[Crawford]

Yeah, but this is comparing apples-oranges. Ottawa has a light rail system, which is much easier to expand than the heavy rail systems in Toronto and Montreal.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Yeah, but this is comparing apples-oranges. Ottawa has a light rail system, which is much easier to expand than the heavy rail systems in Toronto and Montreal.

I dunno about that. It's fully grade separated which makes it a metro or light metro system despite using tram-type rolling stock so perhaps like regular apples and crab apples. Surface sections are built to 90m platform standards with the underground part having 12m so it's a little cheaper in that sense (Toronto and Montreal having 150m & 152m platforms). And it isn't required to stay underground like the Montreal metro so there's also that.

[Yuri]

I'd add pre-war urban form of North American cities favoured transit as well.

In 1951, Toronto had 675,754 people within 97km2. Montreal, 1,021,520 people within 144km2.

Ottawa urban area, on the other hand, had 1,068,821 people (2021) within 550 km2. Almost 4x times larger than Montreal for pretty much the same population.

Post-war suburbanization has been very hostile to transit.

[Docere]

Yeah there's a big difference between cities that reached 1 million by 1950 or earlier and those metropolitan areas that cross the 1 million mark ca. 2000.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Docere

Toronto's subway opened in 1954 when it was a city of just over 1 million (but over a smaller land area than Ottawa now, obviously). Montreal's subway opened in 1966, just in time for Expo '67, so Montreal was already quite a bit city by then.

True enough, but Montreal used to have a very extensive streetcar network, as well as commuter rail.

[Docere]

Toronto in 1951 had 1.1 million, with 900,000 in the core area (including adjacent older suburbs like York Township and Forest Hill village) of 50 square miles/129 square km.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Docere

Toronto in 1951 had 1.1 million, with 900,000 in the core area (including adjacent older suburbs like York Township and Forest Hill village) of 50 square miles/129 square km.

I tried but I didn’t find figures for the old York city. East York I found a chart showing it had about 65,000 inh. within 21km2 in 1951. Adding to Toronto, it’s about 740k inside 118km2.

We could the same thing with Montreal adding those tiny independent cities enclaves. They were all fully urbanized around that time.

[Docere]

Metropolitan Toronto, 1951:

East York 64,616
Etobicoke 53,779
Forest Hill 15,305
Leaside 16,223
Long Branch 8,727
Mimico 11,342
New Toronto 11,194
North York 85,897
Scarborough 56,692
Swansea 8,072
Weston 8,677
York 101,582

I would add York, East York, Forest Hill, Leaside, Swansea, Weston.

[someone123]

I wonder what the "greater city" is for Halifax. Probably just the peninsula (which officially had a little over 70,000 then) plus some inner mainland areas like Armdale, Dutch Village, and maybe Rockingham. The county was 122,000 or so in 1941. Dartmouth had 10,800 people. In those days, passenger rail ran to Bedford. Dartmouth already had a very long-running ferry service.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Docere

Metropolitan Toronto, 1951:

East York 64,616
Etobicoke 53,779
Forest Hill 15,305
Leaside 16,223
Long Branch 8,727
Mimico 11,342
New Toronto 11,194
North York 85,897
Scarborough 56,692
Swansea 8,072
Weston 8,677
York 101,582

I would add York, East York, Forest Hill, Leaside, Swansea, Weston.

Were all of them fully urbanized? I assume Toronto, York and East York were 100% urbanized by 1951. Those three would have 142km2 and 841,592 people. 5,900 inh./km2 density.

BTW, those figures for area it's the 1998 ones. I'm not sure whether those 3 municipalities merged with smaller ones between 1951 and 1998.

EDIT: I googled it and Swansea was merged into Old Toronto in 1953; Forest Hill into Old Toronto, Leaside into East York and Weston into York in 1967, so I added its population: 889,869 within the same 142km2 and 6,300 inh./km2 density.

[Yuri]

Doing the same thing with Montreal, adding Westmount (25,222 within 4 km2) Outremont (30,000??? within 3.9 km2), Montreal West (5,000??? within 1.4 km2), Hampstead (5,000??? within 1.7 km2) and Verdun (77,391 within 9.7 km2).

In 1951, this urban Montreal had 1,164,133 people within 164 km2 for a 7,100 inh./km2.

[MolsonExport]

sounds about right, give or take.

Overall Metro Montreal figures (% increase over previous 5 years):
1951 1,539,308 +29.1%
1956 1,745,001 +13.4%
1961 2,110,679 +21.0%

https://ville.montreal.qc.ca/portal/page?_pageid=6897,67887840&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL