Statistics Canada Reports II

[MolsonExport]

Is that the Concordia Ghetto (densest spot in downtown Montreal)? The Kowloon of Montreal.

This neighbourhood is reportedly the most densely populated area of Quebec, due to the large number of high-rise apartment towers built in the 1960s and 1970s.
22,396/km2 (58,063/sq mi)

Montreal's walled city: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Shaugh..._ep=EgoyMDI1MDcyMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

[MonkeyRonin]

Zooming in a bit to the dissemination tract level, and including some other cities in the mix:


Toronto


Montreal


Vancouver


Calgary


Ottawa


Edmonton


Winnipeg


Quebec City


Hamilton


KW


Halifax


Victoria

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

The thing with the private ferries though is the pricing. Most public transit including transit ferries such as in Halifax is subsidized. But private services generally aren't meaning that the user needs to cover the entire cost, and there aren't any transfers to or from other modes. The only private service i used here is the boat to McNab's island since there's no alternative. And it is $30 return per person despite the trip only taking around 10-15 minutes. So depending on the cost of each service, it may be fine for tourists and occasional use by locals but maybe not as a normal part of the transportation system.

Private ferries and water taxis are definitely going to be a lot pricier than the Halifax transit ferry system, but they could at least be a start, or rather, a return to something for Saint John.

I'd much rather see Saint John get a harbour ferry back that was run by transit and was highly affordable, than only getting private ferry operators who can charge whatever they want. However, if private operations can show people the way, maybe these operations could lead to the return of a publicly fun ferry under the authority of Saint John Transit.

I find it interesting how some people in the Saint John Region think funding a ferry service for active transportation users in Saint John would be a waste of money, but see no issue with the government spending millions on cable ferries for commuters in the surrounding regions.

The Saint John Region has had so much invested in transportation infrastructure (including cable ferries) to facilitate car commuters living upwards of 50+ minutes away from Saint John, but during the same time, very little has been invested in active transportation infrastructure and public transit for urban residents living in the most densely populated parts of the city.

If NB really wants its cities to grow, the province needs to step up and invest in better active transportation infrastructure and vastly improve public transit networks, and stop support such car-centric policies. I find it very disappointing that Saint John is such a car-centric city... even within the densest 3km radius of the city where I live, I find myself driving most places.

Hopefully things improve, density increases, and Saint John becomes a more livable city.

[Nouvellecosse]

Now that battery electric ferries are gaining popularity, maybe that can reduce the operating cost enough to make the idea more appealing. The new commuter ferry route planned for Halifax is supposed to be electric and i wouldn't mind if the existing two routes followed suit.

[MolsonExport]

You can see how the density patterns were strongly influenced first by streetcars, then subways.

[rdaner]

Great! It will be interesting to see how these change when 2026 comes out! Also I see that rivers are shown but is it possible to show parks/ravines as they can take up a large area in built up areas.

[Kilgore Trout]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Is that the Concordia Ghetto (densest spot in downtown Montreal)? The Kowloon of Montreal.

This neighbourhood is reportedly the most densely populated area of Quebec, due to the large number of high-rise apartment towers built in the 1960s and 1970s.
22,396/km2 (58,063/sq mi)

If you focus only on the core of Shaughnessy Village — basically the rectangle bordered by Guy on the east, Atwater on the west, Sherbrooke on the north and Ste-Catherine on the south — you get a density of 58,199/km2.

Though to be honest I'm not sure where MAPS.ie are getting their population data from. I just compared it to some 2021 census data and it's much lower.

[shappy]

^ The below shows a similar density of 56,042 per km2. The tool is good but it's awkward and finicky to use for small areas.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

Though to be honest I'm not sure where MAPS.ie are getting their population data from. I just compared it to some 2021 census data and it's much lower.

I think I noticed this as well, the population data seems to be slightly out of date.

This is the type of tool that Stats Canada should put up on their website with the most recent population estimates.

[someone123]

Halifax has been getting some pockets of consistently higher density, but they've only really come together during the past few years, and most are still only partly developed.

For example around Spring Garden Road:


(Google Maps)

This one around Brunswick/Albemarle is partly done:


(Google Maps)

[savevp]

^two very different tales at street level though!

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

This is maybe the most surprising result I've come across so far within a 3km radius.

I thought for sure the number would be bigger with both Detroit and Windsor's "downtowns" in the same circle, but it's not even close!

I think Windsor might be the most fascinating location in Canada. How special it must be to live in the only city in Canada with extremely nearby teams in all of the NHL, NBA, MLB, and NFL.

I was pretty blown away with Detroit the last time I visited... it has world class museums, great art deco architecture, and all around great vibes. It was nothing like the negative stereotypes I've heard over the years. Obviously, I didn't exactly go seeking out the most dangerous neighbourhoods to visit, and I passed on my friend's offer to take me on tour of "the ruins", but I still saw quite a lot of Detroit within the city limits, and I was mostly impressed with what I saw.

I did see one crazy row of abandoned homes near the Henry Ford Hospital and Motown Museum, which was probably the biggest row of vacant homes I've ever seen in my life, but other than that, Detroit felt nothing like I expected it to.

So I was surprised to see that there's substantially more people on the Canadian side of the Detroit River in a 3km radius the includes the core of both Windsor and Detroit. I guess I shouldn't really be that surprised though, as it's well known many people in the Detroit region feel like the city is a place work and visit, not a place to live. Many people in the Saint John region have similar feelings, so I guess I'm pretty empathetic to Detroit.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

For you "statistical junkies" out there, I'm curious if there are other CMA's in Canada with a similar situation to Saint John in terms of the the divide between the city limits and surrounding communities within the same metropolitan area? (excluding Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal)

At the moment, around 51% of the CMA lives within the city limits, and 49% lives outside the city limits. Are there many other small and medium sized CMA's in Canada where close to 50% or more lives in suburban "towns" and "villages" outside the city limits?

The "dynamic" between the city of Saint John and its suburbs has been one of my least favourite aspects to life in "Saint John Region" since I moved here. I feel "Saint John vs Kennebecasis Valley" is very reminiscent to "Springfield vs Shelbyville" in The Simpsons.

• Video Link

Are there many other CMA's in Canada that come to mind with this similar "Springfield vs Shelbyville" dynamic?

[ericmacm]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

This is maybe the most surprising result I've come across so far within a 3km radius.

I thought for sure the number would be bigger with both Detroit and Windsor's "downtowns" in the same circle, but it's not even close!

I think Windsor might be the most fascinating location in Canada. How special it must be to live in the only city in Canada with extremely nearby teams in all of the NHL, NBA, MLB, and NFL.

I was pretty blown away with Detroit the last time I visited... it has world class museums, great art deco architecture, and all around great vibes. It was nothing like the negative stereotypes I've heard over the years. Obviously, I didn't exactly go seeking out the most dangerous neighbourhoods to visit, and I passed on my friend's offer to take me on tour of "the ruins", but I still saw quite a lot of Detroit within the city limits, and I was mostly impressed with what I saw.

I did see one crazy row of abandoned homes near the Henry Ford Hospital and Motown Museum, which was probably the biggest row of vacant homes I've ever seen in my life, but other than that, Detroit felt nothing like I expected it to.

So I was surprised to see that there's substantially more people on the Canadian side of the Detroit River in a 3km radius the includes the core of both Windsor and Detroit. I guess I shouldn't really be that surprised though, as it's well known many people in the Detroit region feel like the city is a place work and visit, not a place to live. Many people in the Saint John region have similar feelings, so I guess I'm pretty empathetic to Detroit.

There is a ton of mid-density housing in the older parts of Windsor, and there are a lot of apartment buildings in and around the downtown. No buildings that are really glamorous like what is seen across the river (or even in comparison to other Canadian cities), but most are residential as opposed to downtown Detroit, which is almost entirely office, save for a few apartments/condos mostly on the riverfront. Downtown Detroit is much better than it used to be, but the core still empties out at night since nobody really lives there.

Windsor is a really interesting city. It was once one of our biggest cities in the country and had its heyday pre-WWII. It has an incredible amount of historic housing stock and shares a lot of architecture style with Detroit, in addition to having French Canadian influences (French street names, long skinny lots due to French farming style), and subsequently doesn’t really look like any other city in the country. The riverfront is its best feature with the long linear park that you can walk for a very long distance, with Detroit’s skyline looming over. Activities in Detroit are incredibly accessible with buses that cross the border being offered for many events. It was pretty cheap to live in back when I lived there. Its Achilles heel, however, is employment and currently has the highest unemployment rate in the country. Lots of blue collar work is available (it can be cyclical and unstable at times though), but limited opportunities were available in professional or white collar fields. The lack of opportunity in my field was unfortunately why we had to leave, my wife and I miss the city every day.

[rdaner]

I wonder why NB hasn’t amalgamated its cities?

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

There is a ton of mid-density housing in the older parts of Windsor, and there are a lot of apartment buildings in and around the downtown. No buildings that are really glamorous like what is seen across the river (or even in comparison to other Canadian cities), but most are residential as opposed to downtown Detroit, which is almost entirely office, save for a few apartments/condos mostly on the riverfront. Downtown Detroit is much better than it used to be, but the core still empties out at night since nobody really lives there.

Windsor is a really interesting city. It was once one of our biggest cities in the country and had its heyday pre-WWII. It has an incredible amount of historic housing stock and shares a lot of architecture style with Detroit, in addition to having French Canadian influences (French street names, long skinny lots due to French farming style), and subsequently doesn’t really look like any other city in the country. The riverfront is its best feature with the long linear park that you can walk for a very long distance, with Detroit’s skyline looming over. Activities in Detroit are incredibly accessible with buses that cross the border being offered for many events. It was pretty cheap to live in back when I lived there. Its Achilles heel, however, is employment and currently has the highest unemployment rate in the country. Lots of blue collar work is available (it can be cyclical and unstable at times though), but limited opportunities were available in professional or white collar fields. The lack of opportunity in my field was unfortunately why we had to leave, my wife and I miss the city every day.

I wonder how many people with remote jobs have moved to Windsor since 2020? 🤔 I assume it's a considerable figure, and mostly a good thing for the city, but I could also see how an influx of people with remote jobs could have exacerbated issues of affordability in a city with the highest unemployment rate.

I was very disappointed to see Windsor cut from the Quebec City-Windsor high speed rail corridor that has been talked about for ages.

High speed rail could make living in Windsor and working in Toronto a distinct possibility for people with mostly remote jobs that might have to check into the office like once a week or something. I hope the high speed rail line eventually makes it down to Windsor.

[ericmacm]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I wonder how many people with remote jobs have moved to Windsor since 2020? ������ I assume it's a considerable figure, and mostly a good thing for the city, but I could also see how an influx of people with remote jobs could have exacerbated issues of affordability in a city with the highest unemployment rate.

I was very disappointed to see Windsor cut from the Quebec City-Windsor high speed rail corridor that has been talked about for ages.

High speed rail could make living in Windsor and working in Toronto a distinct possibility for people with mostly remote jobs that might have to check into the office like once a week or something. I hope the high speed rail line eventually makes it down to Windsor.

I think that you’re probably right that a sizeable number of remote workers were able to move to Windsor from the GTA/elsewhere. Windsor has also always had the unique situation of lots of white collar Windsorites with dual citizenship or H1-B working in Detroit and bringing home disproportionately higher income than they would get in Windsor, I’m sure remote work made that easier too. What I have noticed is that a lot more money (not just government funding) is flowing into the city now compared to 10 years ago. All kinds of old rundown houses/complexes getting extensive renovations, tons of new construction, and many nice cars on the streets.

We were pretty well on track to have good careers in Windsor, but I was kneecapped because I entered the workforce after graduating during the early pandemic. The job market in Windsor completely dried up and the border was closed, and some sectors don’t seem to have recovered 100% since then. We ended up moving to London - it’s an objectively much better city to live in and is pretty unique itself, but lacks the specific character that Windsor has that we loved. Moving allowed us to get setup with really great opportunities to build out good careers so far (myself in engineering, and my wife in nursing). Funny enough I still get to do a decent amount of work in Windsor.

I am hoping that we one day can see HSR proposed again for Windsor. I actually think it’s wise cutting the SW Ontario part now to focus on the section with the highest profitability (Toronto-Quebec City) and avoid scope creep, just to improve chances of the fundamental segment of the line getting completed in the first place.

[shappy]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

There is a ton of mid-density housing in the older parts of Windsor, and there are a lot of apartment buildings in and around the downtown. No buildings that are really glamorous like what is seen across the river (or even in comparison to other Canadian cities), but most are residential as opposed to downtown Detroit, which is almost entirely office, save for a few apartments/condos mostly on the riverfront. Downtown Detroit is much better than it used to be, but the core still empties out at night since nobody really lives there.

Windsor is a really interesting city. It was once one of our biggest cities in the country and had its heyday pre-WWII. It has an incredible amount of historic housing stock and shares a lot of architecture style with Detroit, in addition to having French Canadian influences (French street names, long skinny lots due to French farming style), and subsequently doesn’t really look like any other city in the country. The riverfront is its best feature with the long linear park that you can walk for a very long distance, with Detroit’s skyline looming over. Activities in Detroit are incredibly accessible with buses that cross the border being offered for many events. It was pretty cheap to live in back when I lived there. Its Achilles heel, however, is employment and currently has the highest unemployment rate in the country. Lots of blue collar work is available (it can be cyclical and unstable at times though), but limited opportunities were available in professional or white collar fields. The lack of opportunity in my field was unfortunately why we had to leave, my wife and I miss the city every day.

Yeah I can imagine it's a cool experience walking along the riverfront and seeing one of the great American cities across the river. I know very little about Windsor - can anyone share interesting streets, neighbourhoods/areas to check out?

[savevp]

.

[savevp]

Originally Posted by shappy

Yeah I can imagine it's a cool experience walking along the riverfront and seeing one of the great American cities across the river. I know very little about Windsor - can anyone share interesting streets, neighbourhoods/areas to check out?

I used to visit Windsor regularly for work projects and was completely surprised to find that the core around Ouellette Street is a bit of a mini-Vegas for Americans who are under their drinking age of 21. Lots of drinking holes, strip clubs, the casino... I used to stay at the Holiday Inn Express on the river, and it would often be filled with groups of American students getting insensibly drunk - legally. But all in good fun; the city centre never felt dirty or dangerous at all. Lots of neat restaurants along Maiden Lane and Pelissier street. I remember once chatting to some (adult) Americans from across the river who said they felt safer going out in Windsor, and of course benefitted from the exchange rate.

The shoulder neighbourhoods of Walkerville and Sandwich Town seemed quite interesting, and especially Walkerville seemed to be the 'local's downtown.'

Sorry for digressing!