Canadian Airport Thread II

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

So essentially it's either a new Montreal-Quebec City route that happens to use the same plane that Saint John to Montreal uses so they are letting you book Saint John to Quebec without getting off the plane in Montreal. Or it's just a re-marketing of 2 existing flights? Direct means same plane, not necessarily non-stop.

Thanks

I guess it's the bolded. I forgot direct doesn't always mean non-stop. 😅 I think the CTV article could have been a bit more clear on this.

I haven't been on a flight like that since I was a kid, but I think these type of routes could help fill niches in smaller markets like Atlantic Canada. Hope we see more of these routes in Atlantic Canada, and not just from Pascan.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by someone123

This is a bit of a strange question. Apparently Flair did cancel Halifax-Montreal but that direct connection is served by Porter, Air Canada 4x daily, and maybe others. It's a major route.

Quebec City is a bit of an odd duck with weaker domestic connections than you'd expect for a city of that size. I was recently in the area talking to folks there and they tend to go to sunshine destinations on holidays or Maine in the summer rather than other parts of Canada. Part of the issue is they can take a direct highway south to Maine but the drive to parts of NB with stuff to see is longer by car even though it's about the same distance geographically. The flight connections are limited and expensive. Flying domestically in Canada is often much more expensive than flying much farther distances out of country, presumably because those international routes are less regulated and more competitive. The domestic Canadian airline industry is not open to foreign competitors.

I wasn't even aware of those failed Flair and Porter routes between Quebec City and Halifax, but they were brought up in the Atlantic Canada Airport thread.

I'm surprised Quebeckers don't have more of an interest in visiting Newfoundland, or nearby Saint Pierre and Miquelon. I could see Deer Lake, St. Pierre, and St. John's as being interesting options for Pascan if they continue to expand.

It's really a shame flying domestically is so expensive in Canada, especially between smaller centres. I think if Mark Carney and the Liberals really want to put their money where their mouth is on this "One Canadian Economy" stuff, I think they should look at funding Canada's response to the US's Essential Air Service, the federal program that heavily subsidizes flights between smaller centres.

Maybe even some of the funding for such a program could go towards hitting those 2% and 3.5% of GDP defence spending targets.

[Myst]

In popular speech, direct and nonstop are used interchangeably, but in *technical* airline industry definitions, direct means it uses the same flight number (not even necessarily same-plane through service. So all nonstops are direct, but not all direct flights are nonstop. I tend to say “nonstop” when I mean nonstop. I’m surprised to see any airlines use “direct” in any marketing because the public tends to misunderstand.

Quebec City really should do a better job of marketing itself domestically - it is missing a large opportunity to bring tourism dollars in from the rest of the country. And part of that marketing also needs to be having your best ambassadors - your locals - visit elsewhere ans tourists and saying “you should visit.”

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

edit: sounds like this direct service does indeed connect through Montreal.

This CTV article clearly stated that, "Pascan Aviation has announced it is adding direct flights between Saint John, N.B., and Québec City."

Yet, there seems to be a lack of clarity as to if this will be a direct flight between Saint John, NB and Quebec, PQ, or if this will be a route that connects Saint John with Quebec City via Montreal.

Furthermore, to quote from the YSJ press release, "As part of its commitment to refining its schedule and strengthening regional air access, Pascan will now offer direct service between Saint John and Québec City, adding more convenience for both leisure and business travellers."

However, the Pascan website is currently only showing a route between YSJ and YQB with a connection in Montreal, but perhaps the Pascan website has yet to be updated? I could see CTV making a mistake about it being a direct flight, but Saint John Airport Authority itself?

Or would staying on the plane technically make Saint John->Montreal->Quebec "direct service"? If that's the case, I think they should have said something like , "now offering improved service between Saint John and Québec City" in their statement, instead of direct service.

If anyone has the knowledge to clarify this, it would be appreciated.

Based on the wording in the press release, I'm still expecting it to be a direct flight between Saint John and Québec City.

It would be nice to see YSJ have the potential to become a micro hub for Pascan... and once the relationship mends with the US, it would be nice to see some routes to nearby Northeastern American metropolises could be added to the mix. Porter had (and maybe still has) a route to Boston that connects via Toronto, that takes more time than just driving to Boston from Fredericton or Saint John.

Pascan would have a lot of options for multi leg connections to Boston and New York once the market for US tourism comes back, which would be a lot more attractive options for people in NB than routes to the US Northeast that connect via Montreal and Toronto. Plus, maybe Québec City or Montreal<->Saint John<->Halifax routes on Pascan's smaller planes could be more viable than past failed routes by Flair and Porter between Québec City and Halifax, and Montreal and Halifax?




Maybe even Deer Lake, NL, St. John's, NL and Saint Pierre and Miquelon could get added to the mix for Pascan eventually? I imagine there is some interest in travel to Saint Pierre and Miquelon among Quebeckers, and vice versa.

Pardon, the abbreviation, Ozabald, GreatCircleMap.com gets confused with Saint John's proper spelling

Not sure how much demand there would be for another carrier to add flights between Canada and SPM. Air St. Pierre seems to have found the sweet spot with the right size aircraft and frequency for its flights to YYT, YHZ and YUL. Plus, a question to ask is if the current bilateral between Canada and France allows for additional flights to/from SPM. When I was in SPM last in 2014, met a few folks from Quebec who were visiting SPM as part of a bus tour of Newfoundland.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

YHZ-MCO also appears to have been cut.

Still bookable for S26 though. Are they really going to keep it summer seasonal?

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Direct means same plane, not necessarily non-stop.

Bingo. Direct can mean 1 or even 2+ stops, as long as it's same plane. There was a ton of these routes back in the 40s to the 70s. Less so now. Air Inuit still has some of these hopper routes on their Dash 8s from YUL/YQB to Nunavik.

Originally Posted by Ozabald

Plus, a question to ask is if the current bilateral between Canada and France allows for additional flights to/from SPM.

Canada and the EU have an open skies agreement. That includes France. So there are no limits in the number of flights a Canadian or EU carrier can do from SPM to Canada.

[casper]

YYJ is looking at a major expansion.

Weird design. I don't think any other airport in Canada has tried this. When the expansion is fully built out the existing building will be for arrivals and gate space. In the parking lot they would build out a new departures pavilion that would have the ticket counters, baggage check-in and security screening. An overhead walkway would connect into the gate area.

Some rendering in the article from the Times Colonist.

Taking flight: Major changes on horizon at YYJ as the number of passengers grows

Increasing traffic has prompted a plan to remodel the upper floors of the departure area within a year and start building major additions to the terminal within two years, much sooner than the 20-year horizon in the airport’s master plan, said Elizabeth Brown, president and chief executive of the Victoria Airport Authority, which manages and operates YYJ.

Reference: https://www.timescolonist.com/islander/t...-the-number-of-passengers-grows-10935003

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by casper

YYJ is looking at a major expansion.

Weird design. I don't think any other airport in Canada has tried this. When the expansion is fully built out the existing building will be for arrivals and gate space. In the parking lot they would build out a new departures pavilion that would have the ticket counters, baggage check-in and security screening. An overhead walkway would connect into the gate area.

Some rendering in the article from the Times Colonist.


Reference: https://www.timescolonist.com/islander/t...-the-number-of-passengers-grows-10935003

Literally thinking outside the box! It’s innovative and interesting! The little airport that could. If it is actually built and functions as envisioned it will be quite a special little (or not so little anymore) airport!

[RomanR27]

Not sure if it was mentioned here already, but on the topic of YYJ, PD is keeping YOW-YYJ going 3x weekly this winter.

[Dominion301]

Pacific Coastal are adding another intra-BC route. Starting 30OCT25, they will be launching YVR-YQZ (Quesnel).

8P1775 YVR1330 – 1445YQZ BE1 x6
8P1776 YQZ1510 – 1635YVR BE1 x6

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/250724-8pnw25yqz

[Dominion301]

YHZ's May 2025 traffic. For the second month in a row, domestic noted a decline and transborder went from a huge increase April increase to a double digit loss. April was the last month of PD's new winter seasonal Florida routes - but YHZ still has a new summer transborder capacity coming, so it may just be a blip):

Sector / 2019 / 2024 / 2025 / % Change vs 24 / vs 19
Dom: 324,658 / 298,921 / 287,573 / -3.8% / -11.4%
TB: 25,211 / 15,477 / 13,782 / -11.0% / -45.3%
Int'l: 30,016 / 36,199 / 41,273 / +14.0% / +37.5%
TTL: 379,885 / 350,597 / 342,628 / -2.3% / -9.8%

Year-to-Date:

Sector / 2019 / 2024 / 2025 / % Change vs 24 / vs 19
Dom: 1,238,721 / 1,085,846 / 1,091,794 / +0.5% / -11.9%
TB: 149,962 / 99,323 / 136,062 / +37.0% / -9.3%
Int'l: 169,369 / 217,662 / 221,349 / +1.7% / +30.7%
TTL: 1,558,052 / 1,402,831 / 1,449,205 / +3.3% / -7.0%

[RomanR27]

According to Ishrion Aviation, Porter and AA have applied for DOT approval for a reciprocal codeshare: https://x.com/ishriona/status/1948766311191835006?s=46&t=99zjwpClQbiW_TOEUoTaSA

American Airlines and Porter Airlines plan to partner with each other!

The two airlines have applied for DOT permission to launch a reciprocal codeshare.

The codeshare is expected to initially cover routes between the U.S. and Canada + American’s flights to Latin America.

[Denscity]

Airport manager job at YCG Castlegar now up for grabs.

[Zmonkey]

Flair will be starting MEX from Toronto and Vancouver this October, both 3times a week.

[Dominion301]

AC are starting Landline bus service to YGK twice daily: https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/ai...ton-to-its-global-network-815191931.html

[Dominion301]

AC's Q2 net income dropped from $410M last year to $186M this year: https://www.wingsmagazine.com/air-canada...NXCD250723011&oly_enc_id=5001D3490978J5J

I wonder how much of that can be attributed to transborder?

[thenoflyzone]

YUL finally got a common-use lounge in the domestic jetty. The only lounge there thus far has been the AC MLL (and more recently the Café).

https://www.executivelounges.com/airport-lounges/montr%C3%A9al-airport-aspire-amex-lounge

https://loungenerd.com/news/aspire-american-express-lounge-opens-montreal-yul

Even though its partnered with AMEX, you can access it with other lounge programs as well.

The new Aspire lounge is a common-use lounge, available to anyone departing from YUL domestically. Since the lounge is partnered with American Express, you can use any of the top-tier American Express cards, including The Platinum Card and The Centurion Card. You can also access the lounge using lounge programs, including Priority Pass, DragonPass, Mastercard TravelPass, and Visa Airport Companion.

[casper]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

YUL finally got a common-use lounge in the domestic jetty. The only lounge there thus far has been the AC MLL (and more recently the Café).

https://www.executivelounges.com/airport-lounges/montr%C3%A9al-airport-aspire-amex-lounge

https://loungenerd.com/news/aspire-american-express-lounge-opens-montreal-yul

Even though its partnered with AMEX, you can access it with other lounge programs as well.

For a long time a missing airport in AMEX network of lounges. Now AMEX needs to turn their attention to adding lounges in the next tier of airports. Halifax, Saskatoon, and Victoria are all missing lounges.

As for Montreal, the lounge on the trans border size is undersized. It should be expanded.

[SteelTown]

Porter Airlines Continues Building Hamilton Presence With New Florida Flights

https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-w...milton-presence-with-new-florida-flights

TORONTO — Porter Airlines continues expanding its network at Hamilton International Airport (YHM) with new routes to Orlando International Airport (MCO) and Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport (FLL) beginning in December.

Flights to Orlando begin Dec. 12, and Fort Lauderdale on Dec. 13, both with three weekly roundtrips. Porter is the only airline offering nonstop flights between these cities, operating seasonally until April. These destinations also mark Porter’s first U.S. flights from Hamilton.

[hollywoodcory]

Interesting PD continues to expand Transborder while the others are either flying status quo or reducing.

AC nor WS announced any new US routes for the upcoming winter.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Interesting PD continues to expand Transborder while the others are either flying status quo or reducing.

AC nor WS announced any new US routes for the upcoming winter.

Adding YHM-Florida wasn’t surprising. PD have also cut transborder. YYZ-SAN, YYZ-PSP, YOW/YUL-LAS all gone with the latter not even lasting its first winter. I fully expect YOW-LAS to be back after the orange stain is gone.