YVR & Sea Island Developments Discussion II

[teriyaki]

Originally Posted by ninjakafi_81

Not really related to YVR but down south in Seattle, Delta Air Lines just announced that they will have flights to Rome and Barcelona.



https://x.com/IshrionA/status/1937654066517278997

Hopefully one day YVR can have flights to Rome and Barcelona.

The thought on this one is that its purely a move by Delta in its on-going war with Alaska/HA.

Not saying that the demand and market wasn't there, but this isn't a "natural" add to say the least not with the way those 2 airlines are throwing routes around in Seattle.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by teriyaki

The thought on this one is that its purely a move by Delta in its on-going war with Alaska/HA.

Not saying that the demand and market wasn't there, but this isn't a "natural" add to say the least not with the way those 2 airlines are throwing routes around in Seattle.

After seeing the success WestJet has had, its natural to see followers.

[nname]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

After seeing the success WestJet has had, its natural to see followers.

Well, both AS and DL currently feed into WS network for long haul flights out of YYC. With the new flights and competition, it would be nature to prefer feeding into their own flights at SEA. Not sure how much effect this will be on WS's flights that have a lot of duplication with the new offerings at NRT/ICN/BCN/FCO.

Wonder if AC will join the battle by starting new TATL routes from YVR to further taking traffic away from YYC. This year AC didn't shy away to trying to take transborder market from YYC by starting YVR-BNA/TPA/RDU, maybe they'll do it again on the long haul front when the 787s are freed up after the XLR arrives?

Although maybe some new destinations on the Pacific side is higher up in the AC's bucket list...


Speaking of FCO... AC applied for codesharing with ITA to put AZ's code on any AC transborder route for indefinite amount of time.

Source: https://simpleflying.com/air-canada-ita-airways-us-approval/

The request is for any city on the Canadian side, rather than limited to YYZ or YUL where currently AC/AZ operates. Maybe there's something in the work...?

====================================
[EDIT] AC updated W25 schedule out of YVR:

PEK reduce to 4x weekly until mid-Dec
DXB reduce to 3x weekly entire season, season shortened from late-Nov (given the situation right now, there's a chance it may not operate at all?)
SIN increase to 5x weekly for the month of Nov
MNL operation day change, remain 4x weekly

So basically PEK frequency moved to extend KIX season
For Nov, DXB frequency move to SIN and BKK

Nov schedule is set for 2 late night rotations:

SIN	 2345 7
MNL	12 4 6	(+1 day)
BKK	1 3 567

Now starting December... the reduction of DXB and op date change for MNL make room for new route on days 2357... or they could just cancel DXB and operate SIN/MNL/AKL with 2 rotations.

SIN	 2345 7
MNL	12 4 6	(+1 day)
DXB	1  4 6
AKL	1 3 567

And... today is the day AC trim the fat for first part of winter schedule until Dec 18. As expected, the transborder sun destination especially to Florida hurts the most.

Notable changes:
YVR-MIA reduce to 3x weekly 7M8
YVR-PHX reduce to 1x daily A220
YVR-PDX reduce to 3x daily CR9
YVR-YXY increase to 2x daily CR9
There is large number of express on LAX, SFO, YYC, YEG

YVR-YYC will have 789 operates on the route, 4x weekly

Looks like A220 base is going online as of the Winter season. All A220 flights I've found for W25:
YVR-YYC 1x daily
YVR-YEG 2x daily
YVR-YQR 1x daily
YVR-PHX 1x daily
YVR-LAX 2x daily
YVR-DEN 1x daily

No A220 flights between YVR and YYZ/YUL.

[ninjakafi_81]

Originally Posted by nname

====================================
[EDIT] AC updated W25 schedule out of YVR:

PEK reduce to 4x weekly until mid-Dec
DXB reduce to 3x weekly entire season, season shortened from late-Nov (given the situation right now, there's a chance it may not operate at all?)
SIN increase to 5x weekly for the month of Nov
MNL operation day change, remain 4x weekly

So basically PEK frequency moved to extend KIX season
For Nov, DXB frequency move to SIN and BKK

Nov schedule is set for 2 late night rotations:

SIN	 2345 7
MNL	12 4 6
BKK	1 3 567

Now starting December... the reduction of DXB and op date change for MNL make room for new route on days 2357... or they could just cancel DXB and operate SIN/MNL/AKL with 2 rotations.

SIN	 2345 7
MNL	12 4 6
DXB	1  4 6
AKL	1 3 567

I wonder if we could see AC relaunch flight to Melbourne. I believe AC wants to return to Melbourne but can't due to not having available aircrafts but now with the availability, I wonder if we can see them returning to Melbourne on a winter seasonal basis again.

If not Melbourne, I wonder if we could see them launching flights to one of the mentioned destinations in their Investor Day presentation with the likes of SGN, NAN, or DPS.

[nname]

Originally Posted by ninjakafi_81

I wonder if we could see AC relaunch flight to Melbourne. I believe AC wants to return to Melbourne but can't due to not having available aircrafts but now with the availability, I wonder if we can see them returning to Melbourne on a winter seasonal basis again.

If not Melbourne, I wonder if we could see them launching flights to one of the mentioned destinations in their Investor Day presentation with the likes of SGN, NAN, or DPS.

Aircraft availability.. no...

Last winter, AC have 17 widebody planes operating for YVR long-haul during December peak.

This summer, this is reduced to 14 since YVR returned the "borrowed" planes to YYZ/YUL that was made available due to low European winter season. After schedule update, the low Nov season will also require 14 planes, then shoot up to 18 for the current Dec schedule assuming nothing else got added or removed.

If they add a new route, then they'll need 19 planes. There is no new widebody plane coming this winter, and no XLR for long haul until at least next summer. So where can they find the extra 2 planes? Unless they move more planes from YYZ/YUL to YVR...

For reference, pre-COVID, AC need 18.6 planes for S19 and 15 for W19, this included Rouge 767s.

[LeftCoaster]

I doubt we see any response from AC to Europe out of YVR. They seem quite content to send everyone through YYZ/YUL. The time to respond would have been after the YYC adds, not now when the field is even more over supplied.

[Johnny Aussie]

AC seems to just keep on shuffling!

I guess if there are 4 weekly frequencies available (days 2357) hopefully something announced soon… starting to get a wee bit late.

Luckily there are plenty of nonstop options to Europe on all alliances.

[nname]

The winter schedule change now extend to the full season. No noticeable difference from what I've posted above for the first half change, except AKL reduced to 4x weekly from mid-Jan.

So now there are 2 empty slots

3x weekly on days 357 noon departure for Dec-Feb during KIX seasonal suspension. So instead of extending KIX year-round, or leaving PEK daily during the peak season (Christmas AND Lunar New Year), what is AC planning to use the frequency on? There's no way AC is leaving the plane on the ground during peak season... But this is only a 3-month seasonal service?

4x weekly on days 2357 late night departure from late Nov on opposite days of DXB.. and now increase to 5x weekly days 12357 from mid-Jan.

The seasonal increase of SYD runs on day 246. While it can technically fit when combining both slots, but I doubt AC will be running only 3x weekly flight on 7x weekly spot during peak season...

[EDIT]
KIX now scheduled to be 4x weekly for March. Maybe they are using an additional plane from March to rotate PEK/KIX with whatever they're planning. I can't image they're cutting PEK any further.

[twoNeurons]

Just got back from my first flight using Porter Airlines. I have thoughts:

1. I LOVED their E195-E2s. So quiet, gorgeously large engines (i know it's silly, but I love the little green ring inside the cowling)

2. 2+2 layout and plenty of room were fantastic.

3. Fantastic service and flight attendant vibe with those hats!

4. Flying out of YTZ was so much nicer than YYZ... although I can't say I was a fan of the Dash-8 for anything longer than, say, 90 minutes.

I hope (but doubt) Porter makes YVR one of its focus cities. I believe HNL, YHZ, and CUN is JUST within range of the E195-E2.

Porter is building a new terminal at Montreal Metro Airport (YHU) so I imagine they will make that their Montreal Hub.
Will be interesting to have two alternatives when flying into MTL if they add a YVR-YHU that'd be pretty cool.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

I hope (but doubt) Porter makes YVR one of its focus cities. I believe HNL, YHZ, and CUN is JUST within range of the E195-E2.

Porter is building a new terminal at Montreal Metro Airport (YHU) so I imagine they will make that their Montreal Hub.
Will be interesting to have two alternatives when flying into MTL if they add a YVR-YHU that'd be pretty cool.

The E2’s PD has don’t have the range for HNL. Also, you need ETOPS 180 min for Hawaii. The E2-195 only recently got certified for 120 minutes. (Transport Canada hasn’t yet approved it though.)

Also, an airline that has never flown an ETOPS flight has to jump through a lot of hoops before getting approval for 180 minutes diversion time. So it’s not just the frame that needs approval, but the airline as well. That can take years.

So basically, three things need to happen for PD to fly to Hawaii.

1. PD needs to get the higher gross weight variant Embraer announced last year, but has yet to deliver.
2. they would need the frame to get ETOPS 180 mins approval.
3. They need to apply and get approval from Transport Canada to fly ETOPS 180 minutes.

Three very big if’s, especially the last two.

As for Montreal, PD will not abandon YUL. My money is on PD selling the terminal at YHU and pocketing the cash to cover for their operating losses. My opinion is that they will have little to no flights from YHU.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

The E2’s PD has don’t have the range for HNL. Also, you need ETOPS 180 min for Hawaii. The E2-195 only recently got certified for 120 minutes. (Transport Canada hasn’t yet approved it though.)

Also, an airline that has never flown an ETOPS flight has to jump through a lot of hoops before getting approval for 180 minutes diversion time. So it’s not just the frame that needs approval, but the airline as well. That can take years.

Good to know. I was only going by the 2600nm range.

As for Montreal, PD will not abandon YUL. My money is on PD selling the terminal at YHU and pocketing the cash to cover for their operating losses. My opinion is that they will have little to no flights from YHU.

I don't think they'll abandon YUL either, but YHU is a more convenient airport for many Montrealers and there's even a railway station super close to the station. I imagine it will be cheaper to operate from there as well.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

The winter schedule change now extend to the full season. No noticeable difference from what I've posted above for the first half change, except AKL reduced to 4x weekly from mid-Jan.

So now there are 2 empty slots

3x weekly on days 357 noon departure for Dec-Feb during KIX seasonal suspension. So instead of extending KIX year-round, or leaving PEK daily during the peak season (Christmas AND Lunar New Year), what is AC planning to use the frequency on? There's no way AC is leaving the plane on the ground during peak season... But this is only a 3-month seasonal service?

4x weekly on days 2357 late night departure from late Nov on opposite days of DXB.. and now increase to 5x weekly days 12357 from mid-Jan.

The seasonal increase of SYD runs on day 246. While it can technically fit when combining both slots, but I doubt AC will be running only 3x weekly flight on 7x weekly spot during peak season...

[EDIT]
KIX now scheduled to be 4x weekly for March. Maybe they are using an additional plane from March to rotate PEK/KIX with whatever they're planning. I can't image they're cutting PEK any further.

My head is spinning - haha

Cannot remember this many changes in such a short period.

I’m just a bit confused though. What are the actual gaps that haven’t been allocated yet? So there are now 7 available frequencies?

I really appreciate your efforts. Thanks for keeping this thread interesting

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Good to know. I was only going by the 2600nm range.

Ideally, you would need a bit more range to make Hawaii work.

YVR-HNL is 2351nm, not accounting for headwinds, or ATC routings.

~3000nm range is what you want in order to fly to Hawaii safely.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

My head is spinning - haha

Cannot remember this many changes in such a short period.

I’m just a bit confused though. What are the actual gaps that haven’t been allocated yet? So there are now 7 available frequencies?

I really appreciate your efforts. Thanks for keeping this thread interesting

Yeah seems like there are 7 frequencies which could be used. Fingers crossed for MEL. Maybe they could also look at TPE (I know it's crowded at the moment but DL seems to be doing alright from SEA).

Otherwise I can't think of any glaring holes they could add out of YVR. But BKK seems very successful so I guess they could take a crack at SGN

[jollyburger]

More than 200 flights were delayed at Vancouver's airport between Saturday and Sunday, with the airport authority attributing the delays to ongoing staffing constraints at Canada's air traffic control agency.

Nav Canada has been seeing ongoing issues for months, with a shortage of air traffic controllers at Vancouver International Airport (YVR) in particular regularly causing delays.

With more than 425,000 passengers expected to transit through YVR in the lead up to Canada Day, Monday is expected to be the busiest travel day of the four-day stretch.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/yvr-delays-canada-weekend-1.7573897

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/yvr-delays-canada-weekend-1.7573897

Not good for Vancouver’s reputation as a cruise port when it happens on such a busy weekend.

[MIPS]

Passed through the airport yesterday. Noticed the central parking structures are still where they were when COVID started and looking abandoned.

When's the plan to finish them? 2030? 2040?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by MIPS

Passed through the airport yesterday. Noticed the central parking structures are still where they were when COVID started and looking abandoned.

When's the plan to finish them? 2030? 2040?

I had posted this back in November. Seems YVR doesn’t know what to do with them:

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10316873&postcount=552

[NewfBC]

And they increased the AIF from $20 to $25 in 2020 to pay for things like this... ugh.

Ron.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I had posted this back in November. Seems YVR doesn’t know what to do with them

If you assume that each garage level can accommodate about 500 cars, that's about 3,000 cars for the whole structure. At the going rate of about $20/day for the JetSet and Value Lot long-term parking, that's about $21 million/year - call it $10 million a year at half occupancy.

If it costs $50 million to complete the structure, then it's a 5-year payback, which doesn't seem bad at all. Of course I have no idea if the $50 million is anywhere close, and if they steal all the cars from the other long-term lots they'll loose whatever revenue they're getting from those operations.