The Great Canadian Waterfront Thread

[megadude]

And some other waterfront photos from this past weekend.

























free image sharing

[TorontoDrew]

Nice Ottawa pics.

The Ontario Government released new details and renders of the Ontario Place redevelopment. including the replacement of the Budweiser Stage.
Images from urbantoronto.ca



















Have any Toronto forumers ever booked a city fire pit? I know of several parks that have them.










Preserved








































This already exists except for the fountain.

[vanman]

I like everything other than those pointed structures at the marina.

Is this project universally hated by average Torontonians or is that just reddit?

[niwell]

Originally Posted by vanman

I like everything other than those pointed structures at the marina.

Is this project universally hated by average Torontonians or is that just reddit?

I can't speak for the average but everyone I know hates it, including older relatives / in-laws who normally don't care about this kind of thing. Has less to do with the design concept than the dealings and scandals which led to where we are. Not that there was really any input to be had on the architecture or site design. Mostly the fact that half of it is supposed to be taken up by a massive spa with a long-term lease to a company with a pretty questionable background / financials and moving the Science Centre for equally questionable reasons.

The giant $400M GO station style parking garage right on the lake is the icing on the cake. Which is conspicuously absent in views from most of the renderings.

We got the Toronto New Deal in exchange for Doug's pet project so I guess that's a plus at least.

[zoomer]

I like the amphitheatre - a massive parking garage is really disappointing.

Will this be a free public park (aside from the spa) or is it a destination private park? Because it feels like a Disneyfied version of the great outdoors. That may be in part due or the fault of the overly cheesie renderings, but there is just too much going on here, too many little districts that look cute but I don't think will age well over time. The first few years though I'm sure it'll be fun and worth return visits.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by vanman

I like everything other than those pointed structures at the marina.

Is this project universally hated by average Torontonians or is that just reddit?

They mostly hate the whiff of corruption that they just can't shake.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by vanman

I like everything other than those pointed structures at the marina.

Is this project universally hated by average Torontonians or is that just reddit?

I think those pointy structures are paying homage to some of the original structures removed from the site, for me they feel nostalgic so I like them.
source: https://torontoguardian.com


As for do the average Torontonians hate it? I don't think so. It closed 13 years ago, an entire generation of kids has grown up never knowing what they have missed out on. In 13 years the GTA has grown by roughly 1,000,000 people. That's a huge number that have never used Ontario Place and have little to no attachment to what it once was.
While so many people are pissed off with what will be going in, I bet there are an equal or greater number looking forward to what it will become.
Personally I don't care, I'm one of those people that just want to see the space opened back up and that stretch of waterfront finally get some TLC after decades of neglect.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by niwell

I can't speak for the average but everyone I know hates it, including older relatives / in-laws who normally don't care about this kind of thing. Has less to do with the design concept than the dealings and scandals which led to where we are. Not that there was really any input to be had on the architecture or site design. Mostly the fact that half of it is supposed to be taken up by a massive spa with a long-term lease to a company with a pretty questionable background / financials and moving the Science Centre for equally questionable reasons.

The giant $400M GO station style parking garage right on the lake is the icing on the cake. Which is conspicuously absent in views from most of the renderings.

We got the Toronto New Deal in exchange for Doug's pet project so I guess that's a plus at least.

That's where I'm at. I don't mind the overall concept, but I'm bothered by the old Science Centre closing when some reports say it would be perfectly fine with some relativly minor works, I'm bothered by the scandals behind the project, and I'm bothered by how much this will cost tax payers considering it's a private project.

[TorontoDrew]

The closure of the Ontario Science Centre bothers me also. They should have just made fixes to it's original structure. Clearly the land has been promised to a developer.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That's where I'm at. I don't mind the overall concept, but I'm bothered by the old Science Centre closing when some reports say it would be perfectly fine with some relativly minor works, I'm bothered by the scandals behind the project, and I'm bothered by how much this will cost tax payers considering it's a private project.

I'm mostly bothered by the Ontario Science Centre being closed under false pretenses. I have school-aged children that would have really benefited from having a science museum in this city, and they'll never get to experience it. If a new OSC ever opens, they'll be teenagers and will be too old to care.

I'm somewhat bothered by the scandalous nature of the Therme spa project but, as niwell pointed out, it meant enough to Doug Ford that he was willing to pick up the tab for maintaining the Gardiner, DVP, new LRT lines and buy a fleet of new subway cars for Line 2, so as a Toronto ratepayer I'll take that trade. For you Ontario taxpayers outside of Toronto, that's maybe not such a great deal...

And I honestly don't care about Ontario Place. It's a "Springfield Monorail"-like white elephant from an era when Toronto obviously was a much more provincial city with an inferiority complex. Montreal got an actual world's fair? Let's build a world's fair-type venue and hope that we get the same experience! Even when I was a kid, when the buildings were barely 20 years old, the place felt very sad sack. Zeidler's pods are kind of cool and are being retained; the rest can go.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I'm mostly bothered by the Ontario Science Centre being closed under false pretenses. I have school-aged children that would have really benefited from having a science museum in this city, and they'll never get to experience it. If a new OSC ever opens, they'll be teenagers and will be too old to care.

I'm somewhat bothered by the scandalous nature of the Therme spa project but, as niwell pointed out, it meant enough to Doug Ford that he was willing to pick up the tab for maintaining the Gardiner, DVP, new LRT lines and buy a fleet of new subway cars for Line 2, so as a Toronto ratepayer I'll take that trade. For you Ontario taxpayers outside of Toronto, that's maybe not such a great deal...

And I honestly don't care about Ontario Place. It's a "Springfield Monorail"-like white elephant from an era when Toronto obviously was a much more provincial city with an inferiority complex. Montreal got an actual world's fair? Let's build a world's fair-type venue and hope that we get the same experience! Even when I was a kid, when the buildings were barely 20 years old, the place felt very sad sack. Zeidler's pods are kind of cool and are being retained; the rest can go.

I mean it won't be built in time for your school age kids either but your school age grandkids will enjoy the waterpark complex (spa is such a misnomer) as much or more than the OSC. These complexes are an amazing family experience and especially welcome given our cold climate.

A mini one in Bucharest gives a bit of an idea of what they offer.

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2020/...arest-affordable-luxury-spa-thermal-pool

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I mean it won't be built in time for your school age kids either but your school age grandkids will enjoy the waterpark complex (spa is such a misnomer) as much or more than the OSC. These complexes are an amazing family experience and especially welcome given our cold climate.

A mini one in Bucharest gives a bit of an idea of what they offer.

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2020/...arest-affordable-luxury-spa-thermal-pool

Is this supposed to be satire? Toronto already has a few of those spa theme park complexes within easy driving distance. This is a relatively niche business that's already well served. What Toronto doesn't have is a science museum, which it used to have. For what it's worth, school-aged children are generally not allowed to visit spas.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I'm mostly bothered by the Ontario Science Centre being closed under false pretenses. I have school-aged children that would have really benefited from having a science museum in this city, and they'll never get to experience it. If a new OSC ever opens, they'll be teenagers and will be too old to care.

I'm somewhat bothered by the scandalous nature of the Therme spa project but, as niwell pointed out, it meant enough to Doug Ford that he was willing to pick up the tab for maintaining the Gardiner, DVP, new LRT lines and buy a fleet of new subway cars for Line 2, so as a Toronto ratepayer I'll take that trade. For you Ontario taxpayers outside of Toronto, that's maybe not such a great deal...

And I honestly don't care about Ontario Place. It's a "Springfield Monorail"-like white elephant from an era when Toronto obviously was a much more provincial city with an inferiority complex. Montreal got an actual world's fair? Let's build a world's fair-type venue and hope that we get the same experience! Even when I was a kid, when the buildings were barely 20 years old, the place felt very sad sack. Zeidler's pods are kind of cool and are being retained; the rest can go.

Everything to do with the Ontario Science Centre and Ontario place seems to scream "follow the money".

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Is this supposed to be satire? Toronto already has a few of those spa theme park complexes within easy driving distance. This is a relatively niche business that's already well served. What Toronto doesn't have is a science museum, which it used to have. For what it's worth, school-aged children are generally not allowed to visit spas.

You've obviously bought the anti development hype and have never been to a complex like this. There isn't anything comparable in North America. It's one of the most all age attractions there are with stuff for 3 year old and 93 year olds

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

both Photo credits to Fred Grass from the Citizens for a Greater Saint John group.

I've heard the port has plans to paint the light coral/electric blue cranes the same darker navy blue as the other cranes... I really hope they don't, as the lighter blue adds nice contrast and brightness to the West Side skyline.

[Coldrsx]

Sylvan Lake's waterfront/beach.

[Innsertnamehere]

I don't understand the hate for Ontario Place. The Garage is the worst part, but even then, the province apparently expects it to be profitable / revenue neutral from parking revenues and services a lot more than just the spa / waterpark, including Budweiser Stage, the Ex, BMO field, Science Centre, etc. My main issue with the garage isn't it's existence, but rather its location - they really should be putting it on the north side of Lakeshore.

The Spa / Waterpark is going to be a great amenity and was procured through an open procurement process. It wasn't backroom deals like many suggest, the province put out an open procurement for the islands and Therme came back with a great amenity option which will be mostly privately financed.

And no, it's not just another nordic spa. As others have said, it will be almost more of a waterpark type facility with spas attached. It'll be quite nice I think, provided Therme can deliver it.

Ontario Place has always functioned as a pay-to-access space, and contrary to the constant media portrayal is not a public park and never has been a public park. The province allowed people to access the former amusement park grounds in the interim... but that doesn't make it a park. And frankly just building it out as a massive park defeats the purpose of Ontario Place, which is to be a Provincial level entertainment centre. That means uses which will draw people from outside of the GTA, yet alone outside of downtown. And that also means a lot of visitors will be... driving. Thus the need for the garage.

I don't think anyone wanted to close the Science Centre early - it's a clear very negative PR move and we all know the Ford government watches for bad PR moves like a hawk. They were mostly trying to be cautious I think, and the science centre building was already experiencing structural issues. For the couple of years before it closed fully it was operating a very cumbersome shuttle around a closed pedestrian bridge which made the facility nearly useless functionally as it was.

Personally I think the Science Centre should have stayed where it was with a structural rehabilitation of it's current building, but regardless it needed some heavy investment as it has seen years of underinvestment with most of it's exhibits unchanged for literally decades at this point. The whole facility was very tired prior to closure.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by zoomer

I like the amphitheatre - a massive parking garage is really disappointing.

Will this be a free public park (aside from the spa) or is it a destination private park? Because it feels like a Disneyfied version of the great outdoors. That may be in part due or the fault of the overly cheesie renderings, but there is just too much going on here, too many little districts that look cute but I don't think will age well over time. The first few years though I'm sure it'll be fun and worth return visits.

I actually don't have a problem with the parking garage. As insertnamehere correctly stated, this is NOT a Toronto park but rather an Ontario one and seeing all Ontarians are paying for it, all Ontarians should be able to get there. That requires parking.

As for the parking garage being ugly, that is a fallacy. ANY building can be ugly just as any building can be beautiful. It is a choice. If they go with the standard GO garages, then yes, it will be a blight. Conversely if they go for an attractive and unique structure that is interactive and vibrant at the base then it can become a attraction in it's own right.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

They mostly hate the whiff of corruption that they just can't shake.

That's probably the biggest part of it. Especially with the whole Science Centre thing. Ford claimed he was moving it to Ont. place but then as more news was released it turned out it would be a much smaller version than the Don Mills site. And for me, one of the first things I heard about the plan was the spa which sounded like it would be the center piece, and for me, that just has zero appeal. It sounds like something your middle aged mother and her pals would do for a weekend getaway or something but not relevant for the general public. Something that would be great for say, Collingwood or Niagara Falls but not a prominent part of a major city's waterfront. But perhaps that's just my personal taste clouding my assessment.

And UI also hate the giant parking garage. It's so close to what will be a major transit hub at Exhibition GO that I wish there could be some type of last mile connection or shuttle.

[chilldude45]

Parksville, BC on a sunny July day