⚜️ The French Canada Thread | Discussion sur le Canada français ⚜️

[Luisito]

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[mousquet]

^ The secular state/government and the private sector replaced the church in most basic respects such as education and healthcare.
Even so-called Catholic schools are widely secular in France nowadays. You don't have to go to church when you attend their classes, far from there. Their teachers themselves are often atheists.
We're not going back to the time when schools and hospitals were managed by priests and nuns.

The deteriorated social environment, lack of hope or ideals, widespread depression and other alarming observations are something real, but I doubt the Catholic church could address those issues on her own, especially when her own codes are somewhat outdated by contemporary society.
I guess it's mostly up to education to do the job. Also, mental health shouldn't be neglected as it's been in my country for too long.

Other than that, spirituality is something a bit odd and mysterious, obviously harder to explain than mere materialism.
What is faith in God? Some kind of interpretation of life, I guess, like some way to look at the world around you.
Good on those who have it, but you can't blame on those who don't.

[Luisito]

Joyeuse St Jean Baptiste.

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[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Luisito

Joyeuse St Jean Baptiste.

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Belated Happy Saint Jean Baptiste Day, from Saint-Jean, Nouveau Brunswick!

Saint John was founded as "Saint-Jean", on this feast day, by Samuel De Champlain, way back in 1604!




As all cities in New Brunswick are officially bilingual, I think it's a little disappointing the city's official name in French isn't, "Saint-Jean". Rather, the two official names are: "the City of Saint John" and "Ville de Saint John".

Especially when most Francophones in Saint John use the Saint-Jean spelling.

Moreover, "Ville de Saint John"... is virtually identical to "Ville de St. John", which is what I believe would be the accurate translation of City of St. John's in French?

"Ville de Saint-Jean" would be slightly less confusing between Saint John and St. John's, which I think happens a lot more than Saint John, NB being confused with Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, PQ

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by mousquet

^ The secular state/government and the private sector replaced the church in most basic respects such as education and healthcare.
Even so-called Catholic schools are widely secular in France nowadays. You don't have to go to church when you attend their classes, far from there. Their teachers themselves are often atheists.
We're not going back to the time when schools and hospitals were managed by priests and nuns.

The deteriorated social environment, lack of hope or ideals, widespread depression and other alarming observations are something real, but I doubt the Catholic church could address those issues on her own, especially when her own codes are somewhat outdated by contemporary society.
I guess it's mostly up to education to do the job. Also, mental health shouldn't be neglected as it's been in my country for too long.

Other than that, spirituality is something a bit odd and mysterious, obviously harder to explain than mere materialism.
What is faith in God? Some kind of interpretation of life, I guess, like some way to look at the world around you.
Good on those who have it, but you can't blame on those who don't.

This got me to thinking... which "Catholic countries" and "Catholic Regions are the "most Catholic" now, and which have become the "least Catholic"

Quebec and Ireland both come to mind as two places that used to be extremely Catholic, which are are now far, far less catholic places. This shift happened a lot later in Ireland than it did in Quebec, but from the sounds of it, Ireland has especially shunned the Church in the past few decades.

I wonder France would be considered more Catholic than both Quebec and Ireland at this point. Probably?

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I wonder France would be considered more Catholic than both Quebec and Ireland at this point. Probably?

Probably not.

The church would be very conservative in Africa or in Latin America to a lesser extent.
Here in Europe (including France), it lost much of its influence on society and widely embraces liberal views nowadays.
For example, being gay is no longer a deadly sin or mental illness. People get used to certain realities in the end.

How many church goers in France? Idk, very few. My guess is something like barely 2% of the population may attend church every Sunday, at most.
Churches are packed with people on Easter or Christmas, but sit empty much of the rest of the year.
However, I believe that on average, the Black community and retirees are more involved than the rest of us in keeping the Catholic Church alive, and there may be some little Christian revival in the country.
Otherwise, France has been secularized for long by now, and a lot of people take pride in claiming they're atheists, as if it made them exceptionally intelligent, lol.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

I think Lu Dort is arguably the most globally famous French Canadian in sports right now. Though in Europe, or more specifically, in France, I suspect some French Canadian footballers like Jonathan David or Ismaël Koné are more well known, but it still might be close, as le basket-ball and the NBA are also quite popular in France.

Jonathan David does have a few more followers on insta than Lu Dort, though, so maybe he's #1, but it's close.

I think we will eventually see a French Canadian football superstar that becomes a legitimate global celebrity, and I don't mean North American football like Mousquet's "good boy" plays

Though, we may see a French Canadian NBA superstar first! I'm not sure if it will be Oliver Rioux, but that really would be something. He will instantly become the tallest player in NBA history as soon as he steps on the court.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

I wonder... will the terms "le football" or "le foot" ever become the most commonly used terms to refer to "Association Football" ⚽️ in Canadian French? 🤔

From what I understand "le football" is still more commonly used to refer to North American Football or "Gridiron Football" 🏈 among French Canadians, but will it stay that way?


I can't imagine many in the Canadian Françafrique community and other newcomer Francophone communities use the term "soccer" when referring to association football in French... but maybe soccer is a more commonly used term when speaking English?

I also wonder if "soccer" or "football" is used more commonly used by the Hatian Canadian community when speaking French... or if there is a divide between newcomer and multi generational Hatian Canadians and other established Francophone minority communities using the terms football or soccer when speaking French.

I think it would be interesting to see "le football" ⚽️ eventually displace "le football" 🏈 in Canadian French, as I think such a change in the vernacular could be seen as symbolic of the emergence of French Canada becoming a more major player in "the footballing world" ... or symbolic of French Canada becoming a place where true "football culture" exists.

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

This got me to thinking... which "Catholic countries" and "Catholic Regions are the "most Catholic" now, and which have become the "least Catholic"

Quebec and Ireland both come to mind as two places that used to be extremely Catholic, which are are now far, far less catholic places. This shift happened a lot later in Ireland than it did in Quebec, but from the sounds of it, Ireland has especially shunned the Church in the past few decades.

I wonder France would be considered more Catholic than both Quebec and Ireland at this point. Probably?

Probably the Philippines, Latin American countries and to a lesser extant some African countries have become the most Catholic. Catholicism in Europe is not doing well. Its hard to say which one has become the least Catholic. Even in Latin America it is losing ground but it will never erode there like it has in Europe.

There are signs of a Catholic revival in some places. Even here in Canada.
Maybe there will be a revival in Quebec? Quebec has some of the most beautiful Churches I have seen in North America.


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[Architype]

Originally Posted by Luisito

Probably the Philippines, Latin American countries and to a lesser extant some African countries have become the most Catholic. Catholicism in Europe is not doing well. Its hard to say which one has become the least Catholic. Even in Latin America it is losing ground but it will never erode there like it has in Europe.

There are signs of a Catholic revival in some places. Even here in Canada.
Maybe there will be a revival in Quebec? Quebec has some of the most beautiful Churches I have seen in North America.

...

I'm not Catholic, but I get the impression that the Catholic churches here in Vancouver, and probably in other large Canadian cities, are being reinvigorated and kept going by people from those countries.

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Belated Happy Saint Jean Baptiste Day, from Saint-Jean, Nouveau Brunswick!

Saint John was founded as "Saint-Jean", on this feast day, by Samuel De Champlain, way back in 1604!




As all cities in New Brunswick are officially bilingual, I think it's a little disappointing the city's official name in French isn't, "Saint-Jean". Rather, the two official names are: "the City of Saint John" and "Ville de Saint John".

Especially when most Francophones in Saint John use the Saint-Jean spelling.

Moreover, "Ville de Saint John"... is virtually identical to "Ville de St. John", which is what I believe would be the accurate translation of City of St. John's in French?

"Ville de Saint-Jean" would be slightly less confusing between Saint John and St. John's, which I think happens a lot more than Saint John, NB being confused with Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, PQ

Interesing history. Thanks for sharing.

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by Architype

I'm not Catholic, but I get the impression that the Catholic churches here in Vancouver, and probably in other large Canadian cities, are being reinvigorated and kept going by people from those countries.

That is probably true for the most part. Here in Winnipeg, there is also a very active Ukrainian Catholic community as well as Orhtodox community.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Belated Happy Saint Jean Baptiste Day, from Saint-Jean, Nouveau Brunswick!

Saint John was founded as "Saint-Jean", on this feast day, by Samuel De Champlain, way back in 1604!

...

It's a similar story to that of St. John's NL, hence the same name.

St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador, is believed to have been named by early explorers, possibly John Cabot, who may have visited the harbor on June 24, 1497, the feast day of St. John the Baptist.

But it seems like a tall tale, apocryphal, since most people believed Cabot landed at Cape Bonavista or even Cape Breton.

But, the name of St. John's appeared on maps long before that of Saint John, so they get the claim of being first.

St. John's, Newfoundland first appeared on maps in 1519, specifically on a Portuguese map by Pedro Reinel, where it was labeled "Rio de San Johem" (or similar variations), according to the City of St Johns. While the name "St. John's" is associated with John Cabot's visit in 1497, the first cartographic representation is from the Portuguese map.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

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A very cool video about Guy Lafleur

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and an even better French language documentary about Guy Lafleur from Radio Canada, Guy Lafleur, le rassembleur | Documentaire sur la vie du Démon blond.

But talk about an example of how poorly supported both English and French subtitles are for what should be bilingually accessible content from our bilingual national broadcaster.

Something like this deserves proper English subtitles and French subtitles, just like an English language documentary about Wayne Gretzky or Bobby Orr from the CBC should have proper French and English subtitles.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Acadien flag rising ceremony in Saint-Jean, Nouveau-Brunswick!

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Luisito

There are signs of a Catholic revival in some places. Even here in Canada.

Immigration from Africa and the Philippines has been a big part of that.

Not that Youtube is representative but I am seeing a lot of Youtube videos of people coming back to the church and people like Mormons are seeking it out.

One of the things they seem to like is the solemnity and contemplative attitude. One LDS lady said when she went into the temple people are talking and hugging and it's "social hour" but before a Mass it is quiet.

The popular Youtuber Bishop Barron has said even more than the scandals as he calls them, what turned people off was the getting away from the traditional and "modernizing' in the 60s and 70s. And he's not trying to deflect from the "scandals" as he's had to talk about them and doesn't shy away from it.

People are struck by the churches themselves. Bishop Barron said one problem was the "newer" churches of the 60s/70s/80s flattened out their architecture and got rid of much of the mystical and iconic and made them basically empty meeting spaces.

[MolsonExport]

Architecture does count (hence the alleged remit of this forum).

Most old Catholic Churches (and all Cathedrals) are places that you actually want to be in, as opposed to the austere, banal, extremely functional atmosphere of many modern (largely, Protestant) churches, "Kingdom Halls" (Jehovah's Witnesses) probably the most austere and banal of them all.

Here in London, Ontario, compare:


to:

[elly63]

Good comparison, exactly what Bishop Barron was talking about. Jonathan Pageau and Bishop Barron explain why it is important. Just watch the first two minutes (intro) and to me that helps explain the difference in the two pics Molson posted

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[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Architecture does count (hence the alleged remit of this forum).

Most old Catholic Churches (and all Cathedrals) are places that you actually want to be in, as opposed to the austere, banal, extremely functional atmosphere of many modern (largely, Protestant) churches, "Kingdom Halls" (Jehovah's Witnesses) probably the most austere and banal of them all.

Here in London, Ontario, compare:


to:

The first (in general, not this converted office space or whatever) should be understood as a reaction to/against the second. The Anglicans and Lutherans seem to occupy a middle ground.
Matthew 18:20.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

It's impressive that Montreal has 4 Basilicas. The only other city in North America with 4 Basilicas is New York.






Quebec has a huge chunk of the Catholic Basilicas in Canada. Though, I've included two other basilicas which could arguably be considered part of "French Canada".

I grew up in Saint Boniface, and this was always one of my favourite places to go as a kid. The ruins of the old Saint Boniface Basilica, which burned down in 1968. Cathédrale Saint-Boniface has since been rebuilt, but the ruins of the old basilica remain.






The Saint Boniface Cathedral as seen in July 1961, seven years before the fire. (Winnipeg Tribune collection/University of Manitoba Archives)


Heavy smoke chokes the air in St. Boniface during the fire on July 22, 1968. (Winnipeg Tribune collection/University of Manitoba Archives)


A crowd watches flames consume the cathedral's roof in 1968. (Maurice Desloges)


One of the towers begins to collapse during the 1968 fire. (Maurice Desloges)

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I think this place proves that sometimes something even more beautiful can be born out of disaster. This is one of the greatest ruins in Canada in my opinion, and of all the places that make me miss living in Winnipeg, this is near the top of the list...... but nothing beats the CAN-D-MAN building. Which, i've heard has turned into a bit of a ruin itself. 😅

I'm sure the original Saint Boniface Cathedral was a very beautiful Church, but as a place to go as a kid, whether on a nice summer day, or in the middle of the winter, the ruins of a cathedral are a lot more interesting place to be than stuck inside of a Church with your family.

Luckily, I was raised by some very lapsed Catholics, so I didn't have to spend too much time in churches, but my grandparents were quite devote Catholics... anytime us grand kids went on a road trip with them, no matter where, and even if there was no Catholic Church, they would make us go to Sunday Mass with them in whatever place that was. We hated it as kids, but in retrospect, it was something that we'll always remember, and it makes me respect my grandparents even more than I did as a kid, because they made us experience things that our parents wouldn't make us partake in. Those trips with my grandparents are some of the only times I've attended non Catholic Masses.

My policy on attending mass remains pretty well unchanged since graduating from my Catholic high school. Weddings and Funerals only. However, should the Catholic Church ever allow gay marriages, allow females to be priests, or make nuns equal to priests/ eligible to become the pontiff, I will at least show up for mass to witness history, but I don't think I'll ever be anything more than someone who is "conveniently" Catholic. Though, If they brought back latin mass sometimes, I might go to church just to vibe out.

Attending a latin mass in one of those huge Cathedrals in Quebec would really be something else... I wonder if any of them do offer Latin service? 🤔