Hwy 99 Fraser River Tunnel (George Massey Replacement) | Proposed

[dharper]

I laugh at the frequency of bus service in the rendering. It shows 3 buses going in each direction. That would be about a bus every 10 seconds.

[idunno]

The ped/bike connection is key! Do you know how hard it is to bike to Tsawwassen? The hourly (or less often) shuttle buses are not a good status quo.

Now I just hope Delta picks up the slack with some better off-street paths to the ferry like the Victoria side has.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

hey look, the same number of general purpose lanes we already have

What? The current tunnel has six general purpose lanes?

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

The bike / pedestrian tunnel in the middle is fine, though it will be far more utilized by bikes than pedestrians, and the spectacular views offered by crossing a bridge on your bike than in a tunnel sandwiched between the highway is another detriment. (And to those who claim weather protection, well, that argument only works if the majority of your bike trip on either side of the tunnel is somehow also weather protected... which it obviously wouldn't be, so that argument is kind of mute.)

Climbing a bridge is a pain in the ass though, like getting to the peak of the Alex Fraser isn't super enjoyable except for those crazy people who do crazy things like cycle up Cypress. But then again, ebikes are a thing and do a good job of flattening hills.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Unironically, there needs to be be a RapidBus from Bridgeport to the terminal once this opens.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Climbing a bridge is a pain in the ass though, like getting to the peak of the Alex Fraser isn't super enjoyable except for those crazy people who do crazy things like cycle up Cypress. But then again, ebikes are a thing and do a good job of flattening hills.

Cue comments on the Pattullo replacement whining about the pedestrian/cycling path being included there. Tunnel or bridge, doesn't matter, car brains only think about themselves.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Unironically, there needs to be be a RapidBus from Bridgeport to the terminal once this opens.

The 620 already is effectively a "RapidBus", just need to start using higher capacity buses since like three in a row come and go for every ferry. Also an upgrade of passenger facilities at the Tsawassen terminal would go a long way, the current setup is pretty bare bones and is a bit of a mess the times I've taken it. Really, it would fit well to rebrand the 620 to the Express Bus network Translink is planning to launch.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

What? The current tunnel has six general purpose lanes?

hmm, at rush hour, im pretty sure the peak direction has 3 general purpose lanes. maybe im crazy because they built the counter flow before i was born, but i am pretty sure thats how it works.

while yes being 3+3 all the time is an improvement overall, it does NOT do much to improve the peak direction of travel, where most of the congestion ends up being anyways. so itll still be gridlock at rush hour, where most of the time delays come from. the tunnel, as-is, works decently when youre not at the peak times. so why are we spending billions, to not really do much? then add in the lovely double-S design, since the tunnel cant be built at the same offset location, like the bridge was.

bike/pedestrian connection is a must have, nothing wrong with that. though i do wonder if itll end up just a giant homeless encampment eventually. out of the way, awkward for police to monitor, long, protect from the elements, will probably naturally be warmer, and due to the slopes, not the best sight-lines. the bridge would be better in this aspect.

over a decade lost of time, billions more to spend, with much less to show for it, while being worse for the environment. thats a "win" in some peoples minds i guess?

and how are they supposed to build this? dredge up the entire width of the fraser river? supposedly some sensitive ecological area? and we are getting an environmental approval on this how quickly? theres a reason the bridge kept the major works out of the river. and what, theyre going to dig a huge trench across the whole thing? yeah, thatll be low impact for sure.

bunch of weirdos who think this is a better plan. literally every single thing about it is worse. AND its not even cheaper.

AND it was only done because of politics. literally had nothing to do with good or bad decision making. this is the kind of crap trump does.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

hmm, at rush hour, im pretty sure the peak direction has 3 general purpose lanes. maybe im crazy because they built the counter flow before i was born, but i am pretty sure thats how it works.

while yes being 3+3 all the time is an improvement overall, it does NOT do much to improve the peak direction of travel, where most of the congestion ends up being anyways. so itll still be gridlock at rush hour, where most of the time delays come from. the tunnel, as-is, works decently when youre not at the peak times. so why are we spending billions, to not really do much? then add in the lovely double-S design, since the tunnel cant be built at the same offset location, like the bridge was.

bike/pedestrian connection is a must have, nothing wrong with that. though i do wonder if itll end up just a giant homeless encampment eventually. out of the way, awkward for police to monitor, long, protect from the elements, will probably naturally be warmer, and due to the slopes, not the best sight-lines. the bridge would be better in this aspect.

over a decade lost of time, billions more to spend, with much less to show for it, while being worse for the environment. thats a "win" in some peoples minds i guess?

and how are they supposed to build this? dredge up the entire width of the fraser river? supposedly some sensitive ecological area? and we are getting an environmental approval on this how quickly? theres a reason the bridge kept the major works out of the river. and what, theyre going to dig a huge trench across the whole thing? yeah, thatll be low impact for sure.

bunch of weirdos who think this is a better plan. literally every single thing about it is worse. AND its not even cheaper.

AND it was only done because of politics. literally had nothing to do with good or bad decision making. this is the kind of crap trump does.

You might want to read the Wiki page on immersed tube tunnels, which is how this will be built. It'll answer some of your questions.

As far as homeless people camping in the bike / ped tunnel - have you ever heard of cameras? They can monitor it from a distance and send security as needed (although as you mentioned it's out of the way, so not likely to be a prime spot for homeless people anyway).

Yes it will only have 3 all purpose lanes in each direction (an improvement over the current tunnel) plus a bus lane (that doesn't exist now). Also the bike / ped lane will also double as emergency access. Apparently we need to keep repeating this.

Finally, the current tunnel is 'seismically unsafe' - unlike this new tunnel. That is definitely an improvement.

[Vantage]

Originally Posted by mcj

The 620 already is effectively a "RapidBus", just need to start using higher capacity buses since like three in a row come and go for every ferry. Also an upgrade of passenger facilities at the Tsawassen terminal would go a long way, the current setup is pretty bare bones and is a bit of a mess the times I've taken it. Really, it would fit well to rebrand the 620 to the Express Bus network Translink is planning to launch.

I wish Translink ran busses to the ferry terminal that didn't solely cater to the Vancouver-Victoria folk. If you are coming on a ferry from the gulf islands, which don't come on an hourly or bi-hourly basis, you can be waiting for a bus for 45 minutes. The current system has multiple busses departing within 10 minutes and then none for then next 50.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by Vantage

I wish Translink ran busses to the ferry terminal that didn't solely cater to the Vancouver-Victoria folk. If you are coming on a ferry from the gulf islands, which don't come on an hourly or bi-hourly basis, you can be waiting for a bus for 45 minutes. The current system has multiple busses departing within 10 minutes and then none for then next 50.

It's certainly a weird contrast when you compare it to the Horseshoe Bay bus schedule and that Horseshoe Bay has better passenger amenities for waiting than Tsawwassen does, despite better bus service. Not to mention, focusing in on catering to the Vancouver to Victoria traffic, if god forbid someone in Central Surrey wanted to transit to the terminal it would require 3 transfers and take ~2 hours. Even nearby White Rock would take 1.5 hours and require a transfer in Richmond. If you're coming from New West it's also 3 transfers and 1.5 hours.

Everywhere besides Vancouver, Richmond and Ladner/Tsawwassen it's going to take you a ridiculous amount of time to get to the ferries by transit that anyone who has another option will never use it. It's actually faster for everyone besides White Rock/South Surrey residents to get to Horseshoe Bay via transit than Tsawwassen (even for WR/SS residents it's only a difference of 1.5 hrs vs 2 hrs).

[Migrant_Coconut]

Devil's advocate: West Van alone has twice the catchment of Ladner and Tsawwassen combined. The ferries are probably the only reason Delta has semi-frequent service at all.

[s211]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

that middle pedestrian bike tunnel is so unnecessary. Who is the right mind is going to take the tunnel by walking??

it's wasting money on additional ventilation equipment as well as being a security liability.

100% agree. It's all virtue signalling, and triggering at the same time.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by s211

100% agree. It's all virtue signalling, and triggering at the same time.

Wow, yeah, it's virtue signalling to try to improve transportation choices for people.

And you're triggered by it? Come on.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

What? The current tunnel has six general purpose lanes?

Yes, haven't you noticed?

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

...while yes being 3+3 all the time is an improvement overall, it does NOT do much to improve the peak direction of travel, where most of the congestion ends up being anyways. so itll still be gridlock at rush hour, where most of the time delays come from...

Better lanes means better traffic flow and higher average traffic speeds. 3+3 all the time also means that you don't have the backup to clear when switching from 2+2 to 3+1 and back.

[vango]

The public commenting period for Fraser River Tunnel – Application Review is now closed.
You can access the published results by clicking on the link below.

https://engage.eao.gov.bc.ca/FraserTunnel-AR/comments/public

[RedArbutus]

Originally Posted by s211

100% agree. It's all virtue signalling, and triggering at the same time.

"Improving things I don't personally get value from of is woke!"

[613Steve]

Originally Posted by s211

100% agree. It's all virtue signalling, and triggering at the same time.

If you've ever seen the amount of cyclists on the ferries, you'd know that a bike connection between Delta and Richmond is in very high demand.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by 613Steve

If you've ever seen the amount of cyclists on the ferries, you'd know that a bike connection between Delta and Richmond is in very high demand.

Nothing quite says suppressing demand like making people divert 10 km to the east.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Sheba

You might want to read the Wiki page on immersed tube tunnels, which is how this will be built. It'll answer some of your questions.

i know how its built, exactly like i said, digging a trench across a supposedly sensitive environmental ecosystem. it took how many years to get the bridge approved, and it avoided the river. now we are building a trench across the whole thing? gotta love hypocrisy.

Originally Posted by Sheba

As far as homeless people camping in the bike / ped tunnel - have you ever heard of cameras? They can monitor it from a distance and send security as needed

sure, i will believe that when i see it. we dont even remove encampments that destroy parks, sidewalks, etc. in the downtown.

Originally Posted by Sheba

Yes it will only have 3 all purpose lanes in each direction (an improvement over the current tunnel) plus a bus lane (that doesn't exist now). Also the bike / ped lane will also double as emergency access. Apparently we need to keep repeating this.

your point on this is what? i did say bike/ped connections are good. and i know how many lanes itll have? you seem confused on the detailed point i made about cost vs reward, and how we are getting bad value vs what we could have had.

Originally Posted by Sheba

Finally, the current tunnel is 'seismically unsafe' - unlike this new tunnel. That is definitely an improvement.

hey look, same as the bridge. except billions more, over a decade late, with way less improvements, and way worse transit connections!!! omg amazing!!! i love spending 30% more, for 50% less. YAY!!!

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

Yes, haven't you noticed?

Better lanes means better traffic flow and higher average traffic speeds. 3+3 all the time also means that you don't have the backup to clear when switching from 2+2 to 3+1 and back.

honestly, you people lack the ability to understand nuance. i never said it wouldnt be better than current. what i said was.

• $$$ billions more
• over a decade later (probably 2 decades)
• more negative environmental impacts
• uses more land/farmland
• provides less improvements
• much worse transit connections
• arguably a worse ped/bike connection due to being in a long, confined space posing safety issues/sightline issues.

im comparing it to what we WOULD have had, had politics not gotten in the way. litterally, it was all done because the NDP didnt want to do what the liberals did; thats so pathetic. so now for a century we will have a worse product, well delayed, for billions more.

but you people are like parrots. just keep parroting away your points that never address anything i ACTUALLY say.

"OMGZ current tunnel not have 6 lanes hurr durr" thats what you people sound like.

im not sure if its willful ignorance, or just ignorance at this point.

[Vantage]

The bridge isn't getting built, that ship has sailed. Time to get over it. I think we all understand the differences between the bridge and the tunnel project. We don't need those points re-iterated in this thread every few months.