Statistics Canada Reports II

[MonctonRad]

Interesting this graphic includes KWC as a #7 Canadian city, but ignores QC, Winnipeg and Hamilton.

Are they predicting a Canadian reality in 2050???

[BlaineN]

I saw on Skyrisecities someone had posted a chart showing jobs directly and indirectly related to oil and gas I think over 15 years and the numbers for both Calgary and Edmonton had dropped. Indirectly the numbers are more of a gray area with many companies setting up IT and professional services for all companies non oil and gas as well as oil and gas.

Originally Posted by jc_yyc_ca

Actually it's been the opposite. Oil and Gas has been relatively steady as an industry, but far from booming, and has not been a job creator. In the case of Calgary CMA the number of jobs in oil and gas is on the decline. I assume this is also the same for Edmonton.
Outside of oil and gas job growth is strong, and is one of the main reasons for the population growth. Even though Calgary has a high unemployment rate, the city has been generating tens of thousands of jobs. A assume this is also similar for Edmonton and thus the strong population growth for the province.

You can see here that the city had an overall gain of 32,000 jobs over the past year. Unemployment remains the same because the labour pool increased by the same, but a net gain of 32,000 jobs is a big gain.


Here we see oil and gas job numbers declining over the past year. They've been on the decline for 7 of the past 10 years.



It's hard to tell where exactly all the jobs are. Calgary has been creating a lot of jobs through startups over recent years (especially in Fintech), and it's no doubt part of the numbers. Some of the retail trade, or professional/technical could be indirectly related to to oil and gas. No real way to break out the numbers exactly, but either way oil and gas isn't the job generator it used to be.

Here are some numbers relating to venture capital over the past 3 years.

source
source
source

[Bishop2047]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

An aside, but I’m amazed that after all these years of interprovincial in-flows to the Maritimes, the assumption remains that it’s mostly old people moving there. The demographics of migrants from Ontario to the Maritimes have been essentially the same over the last few years as of those going west: lots of people between 20 and 45, often with kids in tow.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...022017-eng.htm

This is just an old way of thinking and not supported by data. Fact is EVERY age demographic has been fleeing Ontario and settling in the Maritimes (see interactive table above). This could change at any moment but as it stands young and middle aged make up the majority of those leaving Ont for the Maritime provinces.

[jc_yyc_ca]

The original posting was an arbitrary number for cities over $200 million (not sure why that number).
Winnipeg, Quebec and Hamilton were less than $100 Million. Halifax was $162 Million. KW has always punched above it's weight due to the tech side.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Interesting this graphic includes KWC as a #7 Canadian city, but ignores QC, Winnipeg and Hamilton.

Are they predicting a Canadian reality in 2050???

[DavidK93]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Interesting this graphic includes KWC as a #7 Canadian city, but ignores QC, Winnipeg and Hamilton.

Are they predicting a Canadian reality in 2050???

When it comes to VC money, the bulk goes to the big three metros and for good reason. If you’re doing a new venture you’d want to pick the city that have the most skilled labour and resources available.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by DavidK93

When it comes to VC money, the bulk goes to the big three metros and for good reason. If you’re doing a new venture you’d want to pick the city that have the most skilled labour and resources available.

The VCs don't really pick cities, although they have biases in how they operate like anybody else. In the case of Toronto the capitalists (business people with piles of money to lend) are there already so there's probably a bias toward picking local startups. Vancouver can tap into the Bay Area ecosystem a bit more than other cities.

Startups don't need to take venture capital. I almost wonder if this is intentional marketing. Many tech companies never took VC funding and there are tons of small businesses (derided as "lifestyle businesses") out there that don't. These small bootstrapped businesses are easier to set up in lower-cost cities, while I'd guess that high-cost cities encourage a "go big or go home" mentality.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Interesting this graphic includes KWC as a #7 Canadian city, but ignores QC, Winnipeg and Hamilton.

Are they predicting a Canadian reality in 2050???

Isn't venture capitalist funding tied directly to the tech industry?

KW has a huge cluster of tech jobs and untold startups. University of Waterloo is known in Silicon Valley as pumping out some of the best computer engineers, programmers, data analysts etc in all of North America.
Over the years the flight to Silicon Valley has been slightly reduced as more have chosen to stay in the area or Canada or come back to Canada.

See also Toronto's rise as a North American capital in the tech industry because of many of Ontario's top research universities.

[jc_yyc_ca]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Isn't venture capitalist funding tied directly to the tech industry?

KW has a huge cluster of tech jobs and untold startups. University of Waterloo is known in Silicon Valley as pumping out some of the best computer engineers, programmers, data analysts etc in all of North America.
Over the years the flight to Silicon Valley has been slightly reduced as more have chosen to stay in the area or Canada or come back to Canada.

See also Toronto's rise as a North American capital in the tech industry because of many of Ontario's top research universities.

Venture Capital funding can be for other things besides tech, but it is often heavily involved in tech. For the cities on that list most of the money is going to the categories of ICT (Information and Communications Technology) and Life Sciences (health care, pharma, etc..)
In the case of Calgary the a lot is going to Fintech (under ICT) Companies like Shareworks, Benevity, Neo Financial, Zayzoon, NDZX, Helcim to name a few.

This article talks about Calgary's rise in startups. Most of the companies are tech related, but not tech in the sense of tech in KW, but still tech.

From the article:

The report showed that Calgary ranked top 10 in North America for talent affordability, and top 15 in the “bang for buck” ecosystem.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by jc_yyc_ca

Venture Capital funding can be for other things besides tech, but it is often heavily involved in tech. For the cities on that list most of the money is going to the categories of ICT (Information and Communications Technology) and Life Sciences (health care, pharma, etc..)
In the case of Calgary the a lot is going to Fintech (under ICT) Companies like Shareworks, Benevity, Neo Financial, Zayzoon, NDZX, Helcim to name a few...

Thanks for the explainer

[jc_yyc_ca]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Thanks for the explainer

You're welcome stats and numbers are my jam

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

An aside, but I’m amazed that after all these years of interprovincial in-flows to the Maritimes, the assumption remains that it’s mostly old people moving there. The demographics of migrants from Ontario to the Maritimes have been essentially the same over the last few years as of those going west: lots of people between 20 and 45, often with kids in tow.

You present a valid point. I can see how a lot of younger people would flee Toronto for the Maritimes for an affordable housing and a much less hectic lifestyle.

Alberta, however, has always been "tomorrow's country" for young people. It offers an affordable market with high wages and low taxes. Calgary is a dynamic city with the Rockies at their door step in a more palatable climate.

[svlt]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

They are not the same thing.

Some people feel the population clock is actually a better reflection of the country's actual population than the "official" numbers.

At the end of the day they're both estimates right? No counts are actually done. So it's a little hard to say what's closer to the "real" number until the census. it's so marginal I think this is a case where you can cherry pick whichever number you want to use.

Case in point, you could use Alberta's population clock number of 5 million which exceeds its Q2 2025 count of 4.98 million, and conversely use PEI's Q2 2025 estimate of 180,000 instead of the population clock's number of 179,000

[DavidK93]

You’re absolutely correct. In my mind, I meant to say startups rather than VC’s. Also, I should rephrase it from startups crossing cities as startups aren’t necessarily ‘choosing’ particular cities, but because the big 3 metros have larger populations and more skilled workers, the startups mostly end up in those cities organically with venture capital money following.
Other cities like Calgary and KW are in the same situation but on a smaller scale.

Originally Posted by someone123

The VCs don't really pick cities, although they have biases in how they operate like anybody else. In the case of Toronto the capitalists (business people with piles of money to lend) are there already so there's probably a bias toward picking local startups. Vancouver can tap into the Bay Area ecosystem a bit more than other cities.

Startups don't need to take venture capital. I almost wonder if this is intentional marketing. Many tech companies never took VC funding and there are tons of small businesses (derided as "lifestyle businesses") out there that don't. These small bootstrapped businesses are easier to set up in lower-cost cities, while I'd guess that high-cost cities encourage a "go big or go home" mentality.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

You present a valid point. I can see how a lot of younger people would flee Toronto for the Maritimes for an affordable housing and a much less hectic lifestyle.

Alberta, however, has always been "tomorrow's country" for young people. It offers an affordable market with high wages and low taxes. Calgary is a dynamic city with the Rockies at their door step in a more palatable climate.

This seems to come from a certain perspective that not everyone shares. I like Alberta and Calgary but it's not everyone's cup of tea and it's not necessarily even the best spot for career opportunities depending on the industry (not top in finance or tech for example). Alberta has the advantage of having oil and that would have helped the finances and demographics of any province.

The Maritimes are not a bargain bin version of Ontario. They have their own draw (some of the nicest cities, towns, and countryside in Canada) and traditionally a non-trivial number of people were willing to accept a pay cut to live there. These days the job market there is quite vibrant and there isn't the same gap in earnings.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

You present a valid point. I can see how a lot of younger people would flee Toronto for the Maritimes for an affordable housing and a much less hectic lifestyle.

Alberta, however, has always been "tomorrow's country" for young people. It offers an affordable market with high wages and low taxes. Calgary is a dynamic city with the Rockies at their door step in a more palatable climate.

I’m from Calgary but moved away, so I guess it’s “yesterday’s city” for me!

In seriousness, I think what you’re saying is true (minus the palatable climate part) but the reason people move there in large numbers is simple: higher than average wages, cheaper than average houses.

[Cowtown_Tim]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I’m from Calgary but moved away, so I guess it’s “yesterday’s city” for me!

In seriousness, I think what you’re saying is true (minus the palatable climate part) but the reason people move there in large numbers is simple: higher than average wages, cheaper than average houses.

Well yeah let's be honest, jobs are what drive a lot of people to Calgary, but that's the same for most people moving anywhere. The majority of people like their hometowns and would stay all things considered equal. The somewhat cheaper housing is part of it for sure, especially if you're coming Toronto or Vancouver, but it's also expensive compared to other cities where people come from.

There are people who move here for the Rockies. Though, I would say it's more common for the Rockies to help keep people here once they've discovered them, than it is for them to lure people.
My dad moved here from Toronto for work in what was supposed to be a 2-3 year stint. He took up skiing, and never moved back.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Interesting this graphic includes KWC as a #7 Canadian city, but ignores QC, Winnipeg and Hamilton.

Are they predicting a Canadian reality in 2050???

They haven't ignored them. The graph clearly shows that Quebec City, Winnipeg, and Hamilton didn't make the Top 7 by Venture Capital Investment. KWC, the 10th largest metro, punches way above its weight and came 5th.

[BlaineN]

Originally Posted by someone123

This seems to come from a certain perspective that not everyone shares. I like Alberta and Calgary but it's not everyone's cup of tea and it's not necessarily even the best spot for career opportunities depending on the industry (not top in finance or tech for example). Alberta has the advantage of having oil and that would have helped the finances and demographics of any province.

Agreed, and really it could be applied to pretty much every city. Any city or province in Canada won't be everyone's cup of tea. On this forum there tends to be a lot of hometown or home province boosterism, not just Calgary or Alberta but for all cities and provinces, which is fine. I get it.
Having moved here to Calgary 4 years ago, I really like it, and we don't plan on leaving, but it's not perfect and it's not for everyone.

What's driving Calgary is what drives most places when their population is booming - Jobs.

[BlaineN]

Originally Posted by Cowtown_Tim

There are people who move here for the Rockies. Though, I would say it's more common for the Rockies to help keep people here once they've discovered them, than it is for them to lure people.

That kind of describes me. The part about discovering the Rockies after being here.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by BlaineN

Agreed, and really it could be applied to pretty much every city. Any city or province in Canada won't be everyone's cup of tea. On this forum there tends to be a lot of hometown or home province boosterism, not just Calgary or Alberta but for all cities and provinces, which is fine. I get it.

I think Canada is fairly balanced between regions these days, more than it was in recent decades, or maybe ever before. Oil and gas has cooled somewhat in AB, housing affordability issues are a challenge in BC/ON, and Atlantic Canada's economy is more in line with the national average these days. There are still stereotypes that reflect how things were 20-50 years ago.